Expert Warns of Possible Catastrophic Effects of California Videogame Law

[zHellas]

I'm 3 years away from getting an intensive degree in Video Game Development and Design, if this law passes and damages what will soon be my industry, I will go POSTAL.

If you do, leave a very well written and well thought out note.

Or surrender yourself after you're done.

Do either one(or both, if you want), so we can explain and show that we're not stupid or overly violent.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Yet its all in the name of our brain dead children whose idiotic parents cannot take some time to raise their kids properly.

 

[sabercrusader]

I still don't understand what all the fuss is about. The rest of the worlds games industrys still appear to be going strong despite the fact that kids can't buy 18 rated games.

Can a kid in the states seriously walk into a shop and buy Call of Duty or Grand Theft Auto?

Not in Ohio at least. I always have to bring my parents in to buy me my game, even though I am the one paying for it. My parents are also good judges of video games. I had been wanting to play GTA since I was 10, but I finnaly got my mom to say yes to letting my buy GTA 4 earlier this febuary. It's bad parenting and there is no way around that. Besides, then the kids will get thier mom or dad to buy it for them anyways.

 

[Sniper Team 4]

Totally not fair, I know, but how about companies just stop selling their games in California? Drive across state lines and pick your copy up. It's not like they can take it away after you buy it. I know, not exactly the best solution. I just think it would be funny.

And for the record, I don't think minors should be buying M rated games without a parent anyway.

 

[FinalHeart95]

The problem lies with government separating video games from other art forms. One thing that nobody seems to know is that there is no LAW banning R rated movies from minors. Likewise with Parental Advisory stickers (in fact, I have yet to see a Parental Advisory sticker album denied from anyone). This would leave video games as the only form of entertainment with this sort of ban. This separates it from movies and such, which are considered art/speech therefore protected under the first amendment. If this passes, clearly the court doesn't feel the same way about games...

It only gets worse from there.

 

[RikSharp]

how many children do you know actully do what there parents say? They still smoke, drink and watch x rated films etc. Atleast with certain laws in place your kids can not just ignore you and buy cigs and alcohal behind your back.

except some kids these days smoke, drink and watch porn and they are illegal for them to do anyway...
i don't really see how this law would "enforce the parents decision" any more than it does for smoking, drinking and porn...

you don't have to know what your children are doing 24/7.
i have raised my daughter to know the difference between right and wrong. i take an interest in her hobbies and she takes an interest in mine. really that's all you need to do.
when the time comes for her to want to play a mature game (whatever the definition of mature is at that point) and assuming she is not old enough to get it herself, then it is my decision if she can get it or not, end of.

this law would add additional risk to companies developing "mature" games and gives the government the final say as to what is mature. you remember spyro the dragon?
under the new guidelines as there is "violence towards humanoids" its mature.
ratchet and clank? guns. mature.

it's a slippery slope. one i don't think we want to be anywhere near.

 

[Okysho]

Plaaaay-ers your game is through, 'cos now you've got to answer to, AMERICA! FUCK YEAH!

I love how I - a gamer in a totally different country - will possibly be affected by the wishes of some American governors.

I know what you mean, and I living in Canada will probably have this law if it goes through as well. Even if we don't at first it won't be long before the same governors in the US will be going on about how terrible/awful/evil/communist Canada is for not enforcing the law that they made up. Because that's what happens in our supposedly "Free" country... I really hope this thing doesn't go through.

I have to wonder about how Canada will be affected by this. The one thing we Canadians hate is to be identified via a comparison to our Southern Neighbours. P2P networks aren't illegal over here the Napster crisis was purely a US issue and file sharing over the internet is considered legal. (I'm not sure what the entire issue was, but I do know that our file sharing laws are significantly different.)

With any luck, Canada will use it's own head. Should this law get passed (I'm ready to take up arms just like most video game players are I'm sure) however with Harper as our Prime Minister I still need to keep my fingers crossed.....

 

[punkrocker27]

I am pretty convinced that if the US abandons the lead it has by hobbling the industry the games industry will simply stop selling those games in the US.

Right and it'd be super easy too because hey it's not like they'd be losing a huge chunk of their market. Not to mention most talented foreign developers move overseas anyway for more profit.

 

[Squigie]

People, this isn't about whether or not kids should be playing GTA. The law in question declares the entire medium to not be protected speech as part of its justifications. That protection is why all of the myriad laws that preceeded it were struck down by the courts, and it allows for state and local governments set up their own censorship boards, which they have been quite eager to do so for years. The confusion created by those will lead to a call for federal regulation, which will lead to another Hay's Code [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hays_Code]. We have been down that road before; it does not go well.

This is not a fairy tale. This is not a slippery slope. It happened to movies in 1915, it happened to comics in 1954 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comics_Code_Authority], it almost happened to music in 1985 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center], and it can happen again.

 

[Yankeedoodles]

(Not trying to get explictly political)Anyone know: The Supreme Court is mostly Democrat right now, right? If it was Republican, I would be a little worried, but not as much if it's Democrats.

Theoretically the Supreme Court is apolitical. Sure they were all appointed by either a Democrat or a Republican president but they are supposed to be above the party politics because they were appointed rather than elected.

That being said, Democratic presidents generally pick justices with Democratic leanings while Republicans presidents do the same. Of the nine current justices, 4 were chosen by Democratic presidents while 5 were chosen by Republicans.

 

[poiuppx]

Do I have to fight you too, California? Because I will if you force me to.

Hey, don't fight me! I live here and agree with you!

OT, this is one of the MANY reasons this is a bad idea. Do we really want to hobble a billion-dollar industry and hurt internal commerce that much more? Are we honestly that desperate to fail? Ugh... so, in essence, we'll be butchering the ability to have free speech and expression of thought through a medium, we'll be taking the right to parent away from the parents, AND we'll be ravaging our economy. Stay classy, U.S. Stay classy.

 

[JDKJ]

So basically what you and the original person interviewed believe is that the games industry only really thrives off the sale of games to minors? That if minors are unable to buy M-rated games that whole market will simply 'collapse'?

First of all, nobody said anything about a "collapse". But it could definitely change and not in favour of high production value M-titles. I personally don't even really care that much, since the big companies haven't put out a single genuinely scary or interesting mature game since Silent Hill 2, but I also don't think that hampering their sales (see below) is the way to go about fixing that.

Second, it's not about selling to minors. It's about retailers having to ask for IDs and having to train and monitor their employees on one more thing, making them reconsider and re-evaluate whether the income from those games justify the administrative overhead AND the possibility of legal punishment if some illegal sales do happen. And the bigger the retail chain, the bigger the overhead and potential fines, therefore the bigger chance that games like Silent Hill will be pushed to some back corner of the shelf, if not dropped completely.

I didnt write collapse as a quotation, i was just emphasising the word considering what some people have been saying makes it sound like a collapse would be inevitable if this law came into effect. I am just saying that it has been blown out of proportion. Why not have a policy whereby the fine is placed on the individual selling the product rather than the retailer? That means that the retailer has no financial worries and merely has to focus on teaching the employee to not sell games to underage children. It took less than 5 minutes for me to be told the repercussions of selling a minor an 18 rated game, and its not exactly hard to ask someone for ID... Other businesses do it all the time, with alcohol and such, why has such a big deal been made of it with video games.

Are you kidding? Who's gonna wanna take a job that pays minimum wage but has the ever constant possibility of being subject to a $1000 fine? Would you?

What do you think basically all retail jobs in the UK are subjected to....? What you may think of being a big deal in the states, that is asking for someones ID and not selling minors 18 rated games, is the norm over here... I just dont see what the fuss is about. I sold games, i didnt sell an 18 rated game to a minor, i wasn't fined £1000. Its that simple.

It's also the norm for the British to rarely brush their teeth. Your point?

That dumb shit ain't flying on this side of the pond. I'll bet a dollar to a donut that there won't be too many Americans interested in employment under those terms. Not when they can just as easily get some other shitty-paying job as a register jockey in some other fine-free industry -- like fast food or apparel retail.

LOL! And the majority of Americans are idiotic, obese, racist, incestuous, loud, obnoxious and inconsiderate to anything outside of their country. You can label some stereotypes at me, and ill say some more back at you.

You have missed the point of my argument. People wont be fined the money unless they sell the goods to minors; its not that difficult to comprehend. I am sure that a similar system has been implemented when it comes to products such as alcohol, and its not like there is a massive backlash against that... The term isn't that difficult to comprehend; don't sell a game to minor, don't get the fine. Its simple!

I perfectly understand what it is you're suggesting. And you're right: it is simple. But it is also overly simplistic and fails to account for the fact that it will make it extremely difficult for the GameStops, etc., of America to attract employees. At a minimum wage pay rate, a $1000 fine represents more than two full weeks of work (assuming full time status and the lowest possible rate of taxation). The Yanks, as you state, can be quite idiotic. But they ain't that stupid. Only the most idiotic among them will sign on for that sort of risk. And it is a very real risk and one not at all reduced by your simplistic suggestion of "don't sell a game to [a] minor, don't get the fine." All it it takes to mistakenly do the exact opposite, in the rush to clear long lines --or "queues" as you may know them -- of holiday shoppers, is to misread a birth date on an identification.

And you are thoroughly mistaken in being sure that a similar system has been implemented when it comes to products such as alcohol. In America, the store owner-operator, not the clerk behind the register, bears the risk of prosecution and fines for inappropriate sales of restricted products to minors. After all, that makes perfect sense. The owner-operator's the one licensed to sell those sorts of products and who benefits most from those sales, not the poor slob behind the register. I don't know how they manage it in the UK, but, again, there aren't many Americans who are willing to take a low paying job with no benefits at a convenience store likely to be held up at gunpoint any time and also willing to suck up multi-thousand dollar fines for inappropriate sales they may make on the job. No matter how shitty the job market, that ain't happening.

And you shouldn't be the the one to point the accusing finger of incest at the Americans. At least they don't have the Royals. Have you no idea why Prince Charles is so butt-ugly and dim-witted? A thousand years of carefully orchestrated in-breeding. That's why.

 

[Lillowh]

Right, it would be like selling cigarettes to minors. We don't prosecute convenience stores if they are not selling smokes to minors. If the retailers aren't breaking the law then what's the harm?

Ah but that's just it. Everyone saying it would just be like how stores always check ID's for Cigarettes and Alcohol(not just you tehroc, others in this thread aswell), are you even listening to yourselves? You're comparing video games, a legitimate art form, with disgusting, habit-forming, health risking products, and pornography. You, sirs, have no respect for the medium if that is the case and should rethink this law by replacing video games being censored to Paintings, or even the internet. If we restrict this medium in any way that takes away it's it's rights, people will go even further than just restricting sale of video games to minors, most likely going to such ends to end the medium due to lobbyists and special interest groups having a lot of power over legislatures will try to "protect" their children or come from other industries (Parents Television Council and from the Film industry).

Also, for those outside the U.S. that don't understand that our constitution is the single most important thing in our country and don't think that this law isn't a big deal and won't cripple the industry and won't remove Video Games' rights, it is and will. Restricting the sale of video games to minors is what this law will allow people to do because the law is contesting the First Amendment rights of Freedom of Speech and Expression by making it restricted. The knee-jerk reactionaries will see to it that it goes much farther than this because this will give power to the states to decide legislation on video games making it hard to determine which states will find this appropriate if any at all, and this means that Mature or even Teen rated games will most likely stop being made because the state governments will decide what is "violent" or "obscene". Plus the U.S. is basically the biggest market for Video games and is also home and prime market for some of the biggest and/or best companies and publishers [Bioware, Bilzzard, Epic, Bungie, Rockstar, Take 2, valve, the list goes on...] and they make games primarily intended for the U.S. Market.

People comparing this to the rating system in your country being legally binding, it's not because of the difference in our societies. The U.S. is full of lazy parents who don't want to accept responsibility for their child because they, like many people don't have the maturity level because they party most of their time before they get married and don't have enough responsibility to watch their kids so they want the government to do it for them. Look at the general public we have here. There is NO reason Jersey Shore should be on TV at all, yet it's a high rated show and most of America loves it. Most people in America are the same kinds of idiots you see on that show, but they're too stupid too admit it and will deny being anything like them. These people are the ones who become irresponsible parents (which is most people) who blame that industries are responsible for their kids seeing violent or "offensive" media on TV or Video Games because they're too lazy or too stupid to put Child Blocks on their TV or Game System, don't realize that the Mature on the box means not for your 10 year old, and just leave their kids to watch TV or Video Games so they don't have to be responsible for them. The only reason this law is happening is because these stupid people are too irresponsible to even take 30 friggin seconds to check in on what their kids do.

I'm sorry this wall of text is so long it's just so frustrating to me how my Country's general population is THIS damn stupid, ignorant, and irresponsible. I'm only 18 and I'm more mature than most people under 40 in the U.S. To me, that's scarier than any terrorists or WMD's.

 

[Vault boy Eddie]

They are gonna have to start selling mature games behind a bead door room, all porno room like, people are freaking stupid.

 

[JDKJ]

They are gonna have to start selling mature games behind a bead door room, all porno room like, people are freaking stupid.

In my experience, all the good DVDs are behind the bead door.

 

[Rakun Man]

I'm really disappointed with political correctness in the past 10 years. What began with good intentions to eliminate bigotry and hate speech has now made everything stale. We're merely satisfying the lowest denominator, here in Australia we cop it pretty terribly, they censor the Simpsons down under. Do you know how frustrating it is for vocal right wing minorities to win, I know in America minorities don't actually have that much power unless they have strong political, often religious affiliation (not bashing religion, just saying that most censorship councils have religious backgrounds), but down in Australia as they say 'the squeaky wheel gets the oil'. (Interesting note: In California they banned the dictionary from some schools because they define 'oral sex')

I really hope it goes well, it will be a momentous occasion for video games. It may not seem like a big deal to others, but it's more than just entertainment, it's an indication of how far political correctness will take us back.

Sounds exactly like Farenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury when you put it that way.