F@#&-ing Pirates....

[Kif]

I don't like piracy... and I'm a software engineer. I'll tell you why I don't like piracy.

Because inside the industry they aren't morons and don't care that 1 download does not mean a lost sale, they still see it as a vulnerability and potentially some lost sales... which when you work on big ticket items starting from £300 upwards is a concern to the bean counters.

And what that then means to me is that we have to then spend time which does equal money trying to fix the vulnerabilities. We've employed a number of different tactics over the years all of which have meant time for specifications, functional and design and time for implementation. Some of the ways we've approached include yearly licensing which is done only over the phone, on site visit installations for the really big packages, online activation, required hardware (dongle)... Generally speaking it does help, but it's a cost to put these systems in place.

And what's doubly annoying is the lost revenue from spending time at a cost trying to secure the systems and from the potential sales lost to piracy has a dramatic effect on pay packets. So while pirates are going out and getting stuff for free I have a strict budget to stick to. Almost makes me want to become part of the problem too and get everything for free.

Now I know there will be people thinking, well maybe if you didn't spend money trying to stop the problem you'd not lose so much money. Again, they aren't morons, it has been balanced and weighed (at more time cost) by project and product managers and accountants and it has been proven by other companies that if you give in and don't try to prevent it you lose yet more money as piracy increases.

I feel sorry for people who work in the games industry that when they try and combat piracy they get slammed and can easily see how they would just give up releasing games on the main pirated system.

 

[Gindil]

You're ignorant if you think you're at all in the majority.

Regardless of whether you buy the games or not, the copy that you pirated is still viewed as a lost sale by publishers. They can't just divide the numbers and estimate how many people might have pirated it and then bought it after.

If you want to know whether you want to buy a game or not, read reviews, get recommendations and play demos if available; the rest of us manage it just fine. In 7 years I've made maybe 4 dud purchases, and they're because I didn't research things properly beforehand.

To others in regards to the argument that people wouldn't buy it if they couldn't pirate it, that's not even the point. The point is that you own something which you should have paid for. Just because you wouldn't if it weren't free is almost irrelevant.

That's woefully inaccurate. Again, you have no idea of his own financial situation and you are chastising him for his way of getting games. With the post right above this one, I would agree that you can compete with free. Steam does it, Blizzard does it, every company that's out competes not only to one up each other but also one up the games they've made in the past.

Of those 4 dud purchases, how many can you say you could return to the store because it played bad?

And if we're getting into the publisher's view of "piracy" then you might as well tack on their misnomer that used game sales are killing the industry. Since we can agree that used games have been around as long as there's been a game industry, I fail to see how this supposed "piracy" is killing the industry.

The point is there's a lot that the companies can do to compete with free. Blizzard has a two tiered system in Russia which can be looked to as a model. Free online, Steam, lowering prices in other countries, added value, etc. As others continue to mention, piracy is nothing more than a scapegoat used to deflect the argument from what we should be fighting about: Is the game good enough to purchase and are there enough things about the game to make us care to purchase it?

 

[Altorin]

I don't like piracy... and I'm a software engineer. I'll tell you why I don't like piracy.

Because inside the industry they don't care that 1 download does not mean a lost sale, they still see it as a vulnerability and potentially some lost sales... which when you work on big ticket items starting from £300 upwards is a concern to the bean counters.

And what that then means to me is that we have to then spend time which does equal money trying to fix the vulnerabilities. We've employed a number of different tactics over the years all of which have meant time for specifications, functional and design and time for implementation. Some of the ways we've approached include yearly licensing which is done only over the phone, on site visit installations for the really big packages, online activation, required hardware (dongle)... Generally speaking it does help, but it's a cost to put these systems in place.

And what's doubly annoying is the lost revenue from spending time at a cost trying to secure the systems and from the potential sales lost to piracy has a dramatic effect on pay packets. So while pirates are going out and getting stuff for free I have a strict budget to stick to. Almost makes me want to become part of the problem too and get everything for free.

I feel sorry for people who work in the games industry that when they try and combat piracy they get slammed and can easily see how they would just give up releasing games on the main pirated system.

It's a tough situation, I'll give you that.. You can't beat piracy, but you have to try, otherwise you lose confidence.. So you end up spending more money on trying to keep people form ripping you off and they still end up ripping you off, but you can't give up without looking like you're condoning getting ripped off, but if you actually DO condone it, you probably get ripped off just as much and don't really gain anything for doing it, and end up losing all of the "legitimate" money you recieve from stockholders etc because they don't want to work with someone who seems ok with someone stealing their money.

I don't envy anyone in any business touched by piracy.. I just am personally (as a consumer I can afford to be) very pragmatic when it comes to piracy.. It's easy enough for someone like me to say "lol, just don't sweat it, your DRM isn't working anyway, it's just hurting people that buy the game"... but I get it. It's just a shitty situation that's never going to get better. Ever. (I'm pretty confident about that.. the only way to stop piracy is to remove all privacy from the internet.. and I just don't think that will fly with Joe Public) It's just part of making software.

 

[Woodsey]

You're ignorant if you think you're at all in the majority.

Regardless of whether you buy the games or not, the copy that you pirated is still viewed as a lost sale by publishers. They can't just divide the numbers and estimate how many people might have pirated it and then bought it after.

If you want to know whether you want to buy a game or not, read reviews, get recommendations and play demos if available; the rest of us manage it just fine. In 7 years I've made maybe 4 dud purchases, and they're because I didn't research things properly beforehand.

To others in regards to the argument that people wouldn't buy it if they couldn't pirate it, that's not even the point. The point is that you own something which you should have paid for. Just because you wouldn't if it weren't free is almost irrelevant.

That's woefully inaccurate. Again, you have no idea of his own financial situation and you are chastising him for his way of getting games. With the post right above this one, I would agree that you can compete with free. Steam does it, Blizzard does it, every company that's out competes not only to one up each other but also one up the games they've made in the past.

Of those 4 dud purchases, how many can you say you could return to the store because it played bad?

And if we're getting into the publisher's view of "piracy" then you might as well tack on their misnomer that used game sales are killing the industry. Since we can agree that used games have been around as long as there's been a game industry, I fail to see how this supposed "piracy" is killing the industry.

The point is there's a lot that the companies can do to compete with free. Blizzard has a two tiered system in Russia which can be looked to as a model. Free online, Steam, lowering prices in other countries, added value, etc. As others continue to mention, piracy is nothing more than a scapegoat used to deflect the argument from what we should be fighting about: Is the game good enough to purchase and are there enough things about the game to make us care to purchase it?

I don't give a crap about his financial situation - if you can't afford it then don't buy it. As for my dud purchases, I can't return any of them - PC gamer obviously - but considering they were all made years ago I was probably about 12 at the time, yet still able to live with a mistake.

And of course a pirated copy doesn't always equal a lost sale, but that doesn't mean it never equals a lost sale, nor does it mean it doesn't often equal a lost sale. If people want to play a game, then they want to play it. If there's no way of them getting it for free, chances are that they'll buy it. That's already shown off by DRM; people hate it, but in the end they still buy the game for the most part.

Like you said, companies should be enticing us with things - but that's instead of DRM, not because they should have to fight for someone to deem their game worthy of a purchase (and if they don't they just play it for free anyway).

The fact of the matter is, I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks on the matter other than the publishers. If their interpretation of the figures is that it's a 1:1 ratio of for every game pirated a sale is lost then that's what's going to make them decide on whether or not they're going to a) implement DRM or b) not sell on the platform altogether.

If either of those 2 situations arise, then it is the fault of the pirates.

 

[Hiphophippo]

Most of the pirates wouldn't have bought the game if it couldn't have been pirated.

Pirating is what I would call unfair sharing, but it doesn't harm the developers as much as everyone thinks.

Don't hit me))

You're very right, though. I can only speak for myself, but I see very little real, tangible, sales related differences between pirating a game and borrowing it from a friend. In both cases the game is played but the developer receives no money.

 

[veloper]

I don't like piracy... and I'm a software engineer. I'll tell you why I don't like piracy.

Because inside the industry they don't care that 1 download does not mean a lost sale, they still see it as a vulnerability and potentially some lost sales... which when you work on big ticket items starting from £300 upwards is a concern to the bean counters.

And what that then means to me is that we have to then spend time which does equal money trying to fix the vulnerabilities. We've employed a number of different tactics over the years all of which have meant time for specifications, functional and design and time for implementation. Some of the ways we've approached include yearly licensing which is done only over the phone, on site visit installations for the really big packages, online activation, required hardware (dongle)... Generally speaking it does help, but it's a cost to put these systems in place.

And what's doubly annoying is the lost revenue from spending time at a cost trying to secure the systems and from the potential sales lost to piracy has a dramatic effect on pay packets. So while pirates are going out and getting stuff for free I have a strict budget to stick to. Almost makes me want to become part of the problem too and get everything for free.

I feel sorry for people who work in the games industry that when they try and combat piracy they get slammed and can easily see how they would just give up releasing games on the main pirated system.

It's a tough situation, I'll give you that.. You can't beat piracy, but you have to try, otherwise you lose confidence.. So you end up spending more money on trying to keep people form ripping you off and they still end up ripping you off, but you can't give up without looking like you're condoning getting ripped off, but if you actually DO condone it, you probably get ripped off just as much and don't really gain anything for doing it, and end up losing all of the "legitimate" money you recieve from stockholders etc because they don't want to work with someone who seems ok with someone stealing their money.

I don't envy anyone in any business touched by piracy.. I just am personally (as a consumer I can afford to be) very pragmatic when it comes to piracy.. It's easy enough for someone like me to say "lol, just don't sweat it, your DRM isn't working anyway, it's just hurting people that buy the game"... but I get it. It's just a shitty situation that's never going to get better. Ever. (I'm pretty confident about that.. the only way to stop piracy is to remove all privacy from the internet.. and I just don't think that will fly with Joe Public) It's just part of making software.

I don't think there's much comparison between serious software and games.
I reckon I wouldn't be a gamer (legit btw) now, if I had not been a pirate as a kid.

Also, dongles are still somewhat effective and service (which pirates wouldn't get) is often crucial for a company to work effectively with applications.

 

[Killerscape]

Rule 64 or was it 32. Anyway as long as there is a way there is a will.

 

[Gindil]

I don't give a crap about his financial situation - if you can't afford it then don't buy it. As for my dud purchases, I can't return any of them - PC gamer obviously - but considering they were all made years ago I was probably about 12 at the time, yet still able to live with a mistake.

Yes, but I'm pretty sure you can always go to Gamestop and turn in those games. And it's funny that you're saying that when we're talking about piracy. XD

Like you said, companies should be enticing us with things - but that's instead of DRM, not because they should have to fight for someone to deem their game worthy of a purchase (and if they don't they just play it for free anyway).

Uhmm... By this logic, it's as if the publishers are entitled to a certain amount of money. That's not the case with entertainment. We only have so much time in a day. Some people spend it on movies, music, and everything to wind down from a hard day. So I'm fairly sure they do have to deem their game worthy or else fail in their market.

The fact of the matter is, I don't give a shit what anyone else thinks on the matter other than the publishers. If their interpretation of the figures is that it's a 1:1 ratio of for every game pirated a sale is lost then that's what's going to make them decide on whether or not they're going to a) implement DRM or b) not sell on the platform altogether.

If either of those 2 situations arise, then it is the fault of the pirates.

I would take the publisher's notes with a grain of salt. They're too close to the situation at hand. Not everything comes down to piracy. I can name at least three different situations where the rules are grey.

Crimson Echoes [http://crimsonechoes.com/] - where they made their own story and fangame based on Chrono Trigger.

2) Segata Sanshiro [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3lCF8O2N50] - no export for the US. How would we know about this guy without the use of a video sharing site?

3) OC Remix [http://ocremix.org/] - where people make music based off of games. Sometimes, they make music from chiptune sources.

My point is that we don't know what these downloads are for. To automatically put them up as a lost sale and not focusing on making it a more enticing purchase means that the company really isn't looking at the prize in the end. That's our money.

I've heard a lot of complaints about B. They haven't happened. And again, as I've said before Steam came up which alleviates the PC market. There's also OnLive that's come out. The PC isn't dying. It's just evolving with the times.

 

[Cheesepower5]

There are the rare cases it's not so bad in my eyes, but if you pirate a game you'd otherwise buy then... I think you're kind of a dick, I guess.

What if you pirate it with the intent on buying it and put said game aside till you find the game (in my case a year) then play it. Just so you can have a back up image for when you go to a school where you had a few games and pieces of hardware already stolen. Because most of the games I buy are the ones that don't print much (Atlus I'm looking at you) and takes years to find. I don't see it as a bad thing to have a copy IF you own the game already, cause I had games stolen from me and I rather just keep a backup with me and the real copy that took a long time to find at home safe .

I'm cool with that, for whatever it counts.

It naturally varies from person to person.

 

[Arehexes]

Another thing is publishers will blame piracy on a game that bombed all around, I've read how some publishers blame pirates for games that were just bad.

 

[StBishop]

Well , I live in a country where the average monthly wage is around 150$ (and we're in the EU ....) , so my priorities are bills , food , education and then games( I own 3 total). Pirating is nationally accepted (not limited to games) and there's even something like 2-3 torrent sites that everybody knows.

As I see it , if it wasn't for torrenting I wouldn't have bought them anyway and the only 3 I would have - I did.So it's more like a win(and not live a boring life playing minesweeper and watching TV all day) - lose nothing at all (the publisher that is) situation.

On the other end of the spectrum, in my country (Australia) we pay DOUBLE what Americans pay. It pisses me off to see Americans complaining about how much they get charged for games when we get charged $120-$130 AU.

Where do you buy your games? I've not seen a game over $119.95 in WA or QLD.

 

[Nurb]

Why do people pirate anyways? I mean I pirate myself but only really old games that aren't at my local game stores, I can't find any wheres else, or would be too old to even work properlky on my computer, like DOSbox games, oh and when I say pirate games I mean games today

Some just don't want to pay, some try to avoid stupid DRM, some use it as a demo to see if a game is good or not.

To the last part of what you said....don't we usually have demos for that?

Demos don't exist for most games. They're becoming a rarity because bigger companies would prefer to spend millions on advertizing to convince people to make a blind purchase of a product they can't return for a refund (like any other product) if they aren't satisfied or it's buggy

 

[hobo_welf]

Dude. Capcom doesn't even port them to PC. The ports are shitty. They really aren't even worth pirating, let alone buying. Get an xbox.

 

[StBishop]

So you have to be able to complete a game in order to get an idea of what a game is like? Am I the only one who sees the flaw with that plan?

Who said that person was going to complete the game?

I actually pirate Forza 3 before buying it, just to see if it was "right" for me.

I did 3 races, realized it was awesome, and then bought it

Does your local game retailer not have a 7 day return policy?

 

[Durxom]

Dude. Capcom doesn't even port them to PC. The ports are shitty. They really aren't even worth pirating, let alone buying. Get an xbox.

Umm, what are you talking about?

The last few titles by them(since Lost Planet 1), the ports have been incredible, and have been praised for being incredibly optimizied, running as well or better than the console versions, and each one of them has had bonus PC exclusives to them that the normal console versions couldn't handle.

And I would rather not go and waste about 300$ just to play a console I don't want for games that I do want =/

 

[Zannah]

As it has been proven several times, a pirated copy does not equal a lost sale. A publisher not publishing a game due to piracy, is either ignorant, or stupid, or just a douche.