Fallout 3 to The Elder Scrolls V.
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Oblivion was a brilliant game but many moments made me take it out of my 360 and leave it out for months.
WHAT WAS WRONG:
1)Dungeon crawls posing as quests - Please go here and get this for me, kill generic people and come back for a £50 reward after risking your life. It wasnt fun to go through samey tunnels killing samey foes for pudding faced NPCs. One quest asked me to do a dungeon crawl to get A BEER MUG. The reward was three bottles of beer. Only an alcoholic would do this quest.
2)The 'You must be a hero' main quest - This is a half and half sort of thing. The games main quest made you be a hero. When you find the main bad guy there should be the option to join him and bring destruction to the land (though this might affect the other questlines badly). Imagine if when you go to the shrine of Dagon you can become the Daedras assasin, go back and kill Martin and open the temple to slaughter the Blades. The game changes from then on and you can have fun as the city crushing bad guy. Make the reward for the good guy better that just a suit of armour worse that Orcish armour.
3)Bland NPCs - They talked with themselves with the same voice and it sucked. More voice actors and the ability to make more of an impact with them. I was confronted by two guards once. One hailed me as Champion of Cyrodil the other called me a murderer, then politley pointed me towards the nearest shop. Consistency would be nice.
4)The 'Big' City - What is it, a town? The Imperial City was rather small for a city and I never went to the Elven Gardens, Temple District, Arboretum or Talos Plaza. I went to the arena for money and the Market to sell things. Not great for the capital of an empire. More NPCs and less 'Holy Gardens' areas where nothing important is.
5)No real impact on the world - I was Champion of Cyrodil, Divine Crusader of the Nine, a Deadric Prince, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, Master of the Fighters Guild, Arch-Mage, The Gray Fox, Grand Champion of the Arena. And I dont feel like I am. In the game I am richer than God and twice as powerful (I was a God in game) so combat is no problem but I find no feeling of importance.
I'm complaining too much now, there are 95 reasons why Oblivion is great. So Bethesda should:
1)Make quests more varied and involve less dungeons and Ayleid ruins. Fallout quests had less of this and were better.
2)Have choices of what to do in the main quest instead of being funnelled through it. In Fallout you could poison the Capital Wasteland and kill the Brotherhood of Steel (Broken Steel). That was choice, that was good.
3)Get more voice actors and get a bit more variation
4)Reduce boring nothingness and get bigger cities with more relevant areas
5)Have some impact on the world. Steal from every merchant in Fallout and economics are gone. Be able to get married to certain NPCs, make the player feel like they shaped the world they are playing in. Fallout let you destroy a town, what about The Elder Scrolls?
First post is the longest eh?
WHAT WAS WRONG:
1)Dungeon crawls posing as quests - Please go here and get this for me, kill generic people and come back for a £50 reward after risking your life. It wasnt fun to go through samey tunnels killing samey foes for pudding faced NPCs. One quest asked me to do a dungeon crawl to get A BEER MUG. The reward was three bottles of beer. Only an alcoholic would do this quest.
2)The 'You must be a hero' main quest - This is a half and half sort of thing. The games main quest made you be a hero. When you find the main bad guy there should be the option to join him and bring destruction to the land (though this might affect the other questlines badly). Imagine if when you go to the shrine of Dagon you can become the Daedras assasin, go back and kill Martin and open the temple to slaughter the Blades. The game changes from then on and you can have fun as the city crushing bad guy. Make the reward for the good guy better that just a suit of armour worse that Orcish armour.
3)Bland NPCs - They talked with themselves with the same voice and it sucked. More voice actors and the ability to make more of an impact with them. I was confronted by two guards once. One hailed me as Champion of Cyrodil the other called me a murderer, then politley pointed me towards the nearest shop. Consistency would be nice.
4)The 'Big' City - What is it, a town? The Imperial City was rather small for a city and I never went to the Elven Gardens, Temple District, Arboretum or Talos Plaza. I went to the arena for money and the Market to sell things. Not great for the capital of an empire. More NPCs and less 'Holy Gardens' areas where nothing important is.
5)No real impact on the world - I was Champion of Cyrodil, Divine Crusader of the Nine, a Deadric Prince, Listener of the Dark Brotherhood, Master of the Fighters Guild, Arch-Mage, The Gray Fox, Grand Champion of the Arena. And I dont feel like I am. In the game I am richer than God and twice as powerful (I was a God in game) so combat is no problem but I find no feeling of importance.
I'm complaining too much now, there are 95 reasons why Oblivion is great. So Bethesda should:
1)Make quests more varied and involve less dungeons and Ayleid ruins. Fallout quests had less of this and were better.
2)Have choices of what to do in the main quest instead of being funnelled through it. In Fallout you could poison the Capital Wasteland and kill the Brotherhood of Steel (Broken Steel). That was choice, that was good.
3)Get more voice actors and get a bit more variation
4)Reduce boring nothingness and get bigger cities with more relevant areas
5)Have some impact on the world. Steal from every merchant in Fallout and economics are gone. Be able to get married to certain NPCs, make the player feel like they shaped the world they are playing in. Fallout let you destroy a town, what about The Elder Scrolls?
First post is the longest eh?
Honestly I think if they used the Oblivion engine with Morrowind alchemy/spell making/enchanting/etc it would, IMO, be alot better than oblivion. So pretty much morrowind in a new engine :\ .
A morality system would be cool too, but not in the usual universal number or slider that makes everyone love you or love you slightly less but rather a system that tracks a bit more than that. Also it would be good if it wasn't obvious dialog or limited actions like:"Give starving crippled orphan money/food" or "light orphan on fire and laugh maniacally as you kick his dog"
As evil as people are if a middle ground is given that latter option probably wouldn't get chosen. I don't mean a single middle option either, I mean unscripted stuff.
It would also be cool if they expanded on the Porphyric Hemophilia thing
Also pirates. Pirates make everything better.
A morality system would be cool too, but not in the usual universal number or slider that makes everyone love you or love you slightly less but rather a system that tracks a bit more than that. Also it would be good if it wasn't obvious dialog or limited actions like:"Give starving crippled orphan money/food" or "light orphan on fire and laugh maniacally as you kick his dog"
As evil as people are if a middle ground is given that latter option probably wouldn't get chosen. I don't mean a single middle option either, I mean unscripted stuff.
It would also be cool if they expanded on the Porphyric Hemophilia thing
Also pirates. Pirates make everything better.
Perks is not something that should be put into the Elder Scrolls, perks is something that(correct me if I am wrong)has been in the Fallout series since before Bethesda took it over and is simply something that they thought was a good idea to keep going. I think that perks work well with Fallout 3 however it would to some extent ruin the Elder Scrolls.
On another note I have heard from a reliable source that the new ES game will be set in Argonia.
On another note I have heard from a reliable source that the new ES game will be set in Argonia.
I personally felt they got lazy after the original Morrowind. If you look at the expansions to that game, though they're brilliant games, they miss some of those elements that Morrowind had. For example, go into a bookshop in Vivec and you'll see tonnes of different books, each placed on a shelf like a personal library. Go to one in the expansions and you'll see alot of copy pastes.SirBryghtside said:Actually the crates, barrels etc. in Morrowind did respawn.Liberaliter said:
I'm not sure it would work, though - Elder Scrolls has always been about total freedom, and I think restricting all you do to 3 choices, some of which you pick just because they're good/evil, would restrict this.Yup, Skyrim, home of the Nords seems likely (they copyrighted the word 'Skyrim').silver wolf009 said:
I really think that Elder Scrolls is getting along just fine - the only thing I'd urge them not to do is laziness. Now, I'm sure that it was mostly because of the sheer vastness of Cyrodiil (I'm glad they got it out of the way now), but there were a lot of sloppy bits - the 'key only' system was annoying, and restricted exploration, but was vital for a lot of missions - these key areas took a lot out of the game, for example a 'levitate' spell would let you get to the final boss scene waaay earlier than you're supposed to.
Thankfully, they're fixing it, most likely, with a small world. But for me, Summerset Isle would totally be the best game - it'd be a new Morrowind, with an island and High Elves, who will hopefully hate you
TES fanboy - signing out.
PS, when they go to Valenwood (home of 1000 Fargoths), I will probably hang myself.
Names is another one. Everything that was a player race had it's very own name, rather than "Cultist".
As for the OP, I wouldn't like to see anything from Fallout 3s system go into TES. If that happens then it really will just be a matter of TES Fantasy and TES Sci Fi (or Fallout Scifi/Fallout Fantasy).
I'd like to see a return to more of the Morrowind elements (Give me back levitation!!).
fix the guards how do they know i killed one guy who lived in some camp in the mountains
they should also add a system where if i started killing poeple in their homes at night npc's should get freaked out and lock their doors also people should talk to other npc about murders that happened and who they think is killing the people
sort of like that dark brotherhood mission in the house in skingrad
they should also add a system where if i started killing poeple in their homes at night npc's should get freaked out and lock their doors also people should talk to other npc about murders that happened and who they think is killing the people
sort of like that dark brotherhood mission in the house in skingrad
Level System, some decent boss fights, a decent difficulty so not every single enemy is either an epic sturggle or a complete wuss and the FO3 level system possibly with perks. Also I want Medium armor and the darts, etc back. Marksmanship was so boring in Oblivion and also where were my spears and the wide variety of weapons Morrowind had. I would also like a max of 10,000 magic points to be stored in a magic weapon with maybe a max of 500 used/use and the ability to enchant weapons and armor to not only have passive effects but spells with the own magic pool again. I also want to be able to give more then 1 enchant to an armor so that I could have passive and spell abilities.
I don't think many things from Fallout would be nice to put in the TES games.
VATS are more or less cheats anyway..
Except for 1 thing: Weightless ammo. I'm looking at you, arrows. When I am doing the DLC of Mehrunes Razor, which basicly is 1 HUGE dungeon, I am limited to bringing only a certain ammount of arrows with me, because they weigh like 0.1 each.
Now for the Morrowind-to-oblivion kind of changes:
- I sort of liked the way that you could only travel from certain points on the map to other points.. It ensured that you actually saw a huge part of the game world in your play-through. When you look at how I played Oblivion, all I saw of the world is a straight path to the quest, a quick travel back, and some quicktravelling between the cities.
- Give me back my Dwemers, or improve the Elves' cities! I used to have a huuuge collection of Dwemer artifacts in EACH Morrowind savegame. You name it I collected it: Cups, Coins, Scrap Metal, Cylinders etc. The elves in Oblivion feel a lot less like an actual civilization, because they did not have hose household items like plates and spoons and remains of beds.
- I loved how they got rid of cliff racers tho
VATS are more or less cheats anyway..
Except for 1 thing: Weightless ammo. I'm looking at you, arrows. When I am doing the DLC of Mehrunes Razor, which basicly is 1 HUGE dungeon, I am limited to bringing only a certain ammount of arrows with me, because they weigh like 0.1 each.
Now for the Morrowind-to-oblivion kind of changes:
- I sort of liked the way that you could only travel from certain points on the map to other points.. It ensured that you actually saw a huge part of the game world in your play-through. When you look at how I played Oblivion, all I saw of the world is a straight path to the quest, a quick travel back, and some quicktravelling between the cities.
- Give me back my Dwemers, or improve the Elves' cities! I used to have a huuuge collection of Dwemer artifacts in EACH Morrowind savegame. You name it I collected it: Cups, Coins, Scrap Metal, Cylinders etc. The elves in Oblivion feel a lot less like an actual civilization, because they did not have hose household items like plates and spoons and remains of beds.
- I loved how they got rid of cliff racers tho
Better combat, The combat In oblivion was good but repetetive. Realistic Damage , Speed affects swing damage , Height affects arrow damage. People Get Wounded, Not like Fallout 3 wounded , wich is a improvement but by no means good, i mean Kinda Realistic. People can bleed out and Shooting someone in the knee [ with an arrow ] makes them limp, and it's be nice to see your attacks having some effect , like If I take a knife and slash someone across the face in oblivion they pretty much go " Ouch " and then hit me back or run away, Sneak Attacks are even more blatantly wrong.
This would also lead to more epic fight wich are DESPERATLY needed. The Most Epic fight i had in oblivion [ besides the ones where there are about 30 people on screen ] was where I made a unicorn chase me off a cliff and it died from fall damage.
Also related to Epic fights, TAKE SCALED LEVELING OUT, Well Maybe not completly but SERIOUSLY reduce it's effect it's quite disheartening that A level 3 can Kill a Minotour or that after a certain level a charecter gets progressivly worse because theyv'e pretty much maxed out.
Besides that More Things in the world, More things generally, Interesting landcapes , Towns Villages , Small Quests etc. As Well As Unmarked things. There was a Great Mod For Oblivion that I forget the name of but basically it just added about 12 legendary weapons all with unique and interesting names and stories that were put into a collecion of three books that contained their backstory and a well disguised hint as to where they Might be.... Most...Fun...Ever. Seriously for one of the first times since playing the game [ I originally had it on Xbox 360 and later got it on P.C. So I'd been playing it for about 2-3 years by this point ] I felt Like I was On A truely Epic Journy, To Find a sword/staff/axe etc.
More Things Like this and TES V Would be AWSOME.
This would also lead to more epic fight wich are DESPERATLY needed. The Most Epic fight i had in oblivion [ besides the ones where there are about 30 people on screen ] was where I made a unicorn chase me off a cliff and it died from fall damage.
Also related to Epic fights, TAKE SCALED LEVELING OUT, Well Maybe not completly but SERIOUSLY reduce it's effect it's quite disheartening that A level 3 can Kill a Minotour or that after a certain level a charecter gets progressivly worse because theyv'e pretty much maxed out.
Besides that More Things in the world, More things generally, Interesting landcapes , Towns Villages , Small Quests etc. As Well As Unmarked things. There was a Great Mod For Oblivion that I forget the name of but basically it just added about 12 legendary weapons all with unique and interesting names and stories that were put into a collecion of three books that contained their backstory and a well disguised hint as to where they Might be.... Most...Fun...Ever. Seriously for one of the first times since playing the game [ I originally had it on Xbox 360 and later got it on P.C. So I'd been playing it for about 2-3 years by this point ] I felt Like I was On A truely Epic Journy, To Find a sword/staff/axe etc.
More Things Like this and TES V Would be AWSOME.
Power Armor.
...okay, not really. In all seriousness, I love Elder Scrolls, and love the Fallout series, so FO:3 was beyond up my alley. Hell, I'm on my fifth playthrough now.
If they were going to carry over anything, I think there's a handful of big ones.
1) Choice. Say what you will, but in Fallout 3, you could choose to save or damn the whole game world several times over. And you felt it, in everything from the communities that welcomed you to the folks who would hunt you to Three Dog praising or damning you on the radio. Sure, the ending was a giant suckfest on toast, but compared to Oblivion's sit-here-while-we-deal-with-the-end-boss-for-you anticlimax, it worked for me.
2) Interaction between factions. Even when it was just dialogue, you felt how much the Outcastes and Brotherhood hated each other, how much the slavers hated almost everyone, the idea no one teamed with the raiders because most of them were flat-out insane on top of being evil- seriously, chat with everyone in the Pitt, these guys need some counciling -and in the actual game world, you saw that when two sides might violently be slaughtering each other. You never really got that in the latest installment, bar the whole pseudo-rivalries in Shivering Isle. The feeling of trust, or distrust, in the Capitol Wasteland made it feel real, and like the characters were more than just set pieces.
3) Dialogue between NPCs that does not suck or make me think the AI is drunk.
4) Dungeons and the like that feel unique. Seriously, there's only so many times I can go underground and be greeted with the same old stonework. Ruined delves in FO:3 were their own stories; you could get the feel for not only what it had been before, but what had become of it since then. In Oblivion, not so much.
5) Genuine benefits for success. In Oblivion, the only quest lines I felt gave that were the two main DLCs, and even then it was extremely limited. There were times post-Shivering Isle I seriously wished I could have my character start sceaming 'I AM A DAEDRIC PRINCE, YOU FREAKING MORONS!'. In Fallout 3, completing quests gave you new radio stations across the wastes, or a home, or decided whether the Wasteland would be poisoned or not, or gave you access to a renewable source of new ammo. When my crazy evil character entered the den of the slavers, they gave her gifts to keep her from shooting the place up. When my hero of the wastes came home to Megaton, the thankful people would do the same out of gratitude. When Three Dog reported on my daring deeds, I could imagine word spreading across the wastes and beyond. Could it have been handled better? Hell yeah! Was it a damn good step in the right direction for a sandbox title of this magnitude? Totally. If I'm the head of the Fighter's Guild, or the Champion of the land who saved it from destruction, or what ammounts to a GOD OF MADNESS, I expect that to have more of an impact when I travel around then getting a couple new items.
6) A leveling curve that doesn't punish me for playing my character. Seriously, in Oblivion, I found myself making characters expressly designed so their main stats would be in things I'd never use. My 'roguish character with a preference for light armor' used heavy armor and magic constantly in combat, just to avoid the game steamrolling me while I *gasp* explored the world and did various quests! How dare I!
7) Perks. Yeah, I know it's a Fallout thing, but it works. Hell, D&D did it with feats. It's the same concept; use a system where leveling means more than just maxing out skills, where you can get special benefits only by picking them at leveling up. Combining this and 6 might make my character less afraid of beds then he is of hordes of Daedra rampaging across the land.
...okay, not really. In all seriousness, I love Elder Scrolls, and love the Fallout series, so FO:3 was beyond up my alley. Hell, I'm on my fifth playthrough now.
If they were going to carry over anything, I think there's a handful of big ones.
1) Choice. Say what you will, but in Fallout 3, you could choose to save or damn the whole game world several times over. And you felt it, in everything from the communities that welcomed you to the folks who would hunt you to Three Dog praising or damning you on the radio. Sure, the ending was a giant suckfest on toast, but compared to Oblivion's sit-here-while-we-deal-with-the-end-boss-for-you anticlimax, it worked for me.
2) Interaction between factions. Even when it was just dialogue, you felt how much the Outcastes and Brotherhood hated each other, how much the slavers hated almost everyone, the idea no one teamed with the raiders because most of them were flat-out insane on top of being evil- seriously, chat with everyone in the Pitt, these guys need some counciling -and in the actual game world, you saw that when two sides might violently be slaughtering each other. You never really got that in the latest installment, bar the whole pseudo-rivalries in Shivering Isle. The feeling of trust, or distrust, in the Capitol Wasteland made it feel real, and like the characters were more than just set pieces.
3) Dialogue between NPCs that does not suck or make me think the AI is drunk.
4) Dungeons and the like that feel unique. Seriously, there's only so many times I can go underground and be greeted with the same old stonework. Ruined delves in FO:3 were their own stories; you could get the feel for not only what it had been before, but what had become of it since then. In Oblivion, not so much.
5) Genuine benefits for success. In Oblivion, the only quest lines I felt gave that were the two main DLCs, and even then it was extremely limited. There were times post-Shivering Isle I seriously wished I could have my character start sceaming 'I AM A DAEDRIC PRINCE, YOU FREAKING MORONS!'. In Fallout 3, completing quests gave you new radio stations across the wastes, or a home, or decided whether the Wasteland would be poisoned or not, or gave you access to a renewable source of new ammo. When my crazy evil character entered the den of the slavers, they gave her gifts to keep her from shooting the place up. When my hero of the wastes came home to Megaton, the thankful people would do the same out of gratitude. When Three Dog reported on my daring deeds, I could imagine word spreading across the wastes and beyond. Could it have been handled better? Hell yeah! Was it a damn good step in the right direction for a sandbox title of this magnitude? Totally. If I'm the head of the Fighter's Guild, or the Champion of the land who saved it from destruction, or what ammounts to a GOD OF MADNESS, I expect that to have more of an impact when I travel around then getting a couple new items.
6) A leveling curve that doesn't punish me for playing my character. Seriously, in Oblivion, I found myself making characters expressly designed so their main stats would be in things I'd never use. My 'roguish character with a preference for light armor' used heavy armor and magic constantly in combat, just to avoid the game steamrolling me while I *gasp* explored the world and did various quests! How dare I!
7) Perks. Yeah, I know it's a Fallout thing, but it works. Hell, D&D did it with feats. It's the same concept; use a system where leveling means more than just maxing out skills, where you can get special benefits only by picking them at leveling up. Combining this and 6 might make my character less afraid of beds then he is of hordes of Daedra rampaging across the land.
I Would hate if they added that karma and perks crap to scrolls, I'm fed up of karma systems, Everyone keeps makeing them, And if they DO take perks, Get rid of the pointless crappy ones like "Raise lockpicking by 5!".
Oh if if they want to keep scaled leveling then make it so you HAVE to level, Ie the level screen comes up as soon as you finish combat, That way you dont get level 1's with 99 in all skills.
Oh if if they want to keep scaled leveling then make it so you HAVE to level, Ie the level screen comes up as soon as you finish combat, That way you dont get level 1's with 99 in all skills.
Wellcome to the escapist!JaceValm said:
Yeah, perks would be cool, but there is alot they could add to the Elder scrolls formula that wasn't in Fallout 3.
Firstly, better character animation, seriously, everyone moves so stiff and wooden in all Bethesda games. They really need to fix that.
Also, in Oblivion, you had a horse, but it was pretty useless after you could fast travel almost anywhere. This can be fixed by making horse riding an actually fun alternative to fast traveling, like by adding mounted combat, have enemies be able to use horses, and, if you add perks, add horse related perks too.
Oh, and the vampire thing from Oblivion, that could've been soooo awesome, if it didn't turn your character into an 80 year old freak. Yes vampires are pale, but they are not all hideous. If I recall, Dracula was quite the dapper fellow.
On a similar note, if you have Vampires, why not go the extra yard and throw werewolves into the mix as well? That would be pretty sweet.
Those are just a few ideas, there are definetly more*, but, I'll still buy Elder Scrolls V, whenever it comes out, because, I'm a sucker like that.
*http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7588-Experienced-Points-Voice-vs-Choice
Firstly, better character animation, seriously, everyone moves so stiff and wooden in all Bethesda games. They really need to fix that.
Also, in Oblivion, you had a horse, but it was pretty useless after you could fast travel almost anywhere. This can be fixed by making horse riding an actually fun alternative to fast traveling, like by adding mounted combat, have enemies be able to use horses, and, if you add perks, add horse related perks too.
Oh, and the vampire thing from Oblivion, that could've been soooo awesome, if it didn't turn your character into an 80 year old freak. Yes vampires are pale, but they are not all hideous. If I recall, Dracula was quite the dapper fellow.
On a similar note, if you have Vampires, why not go the extra yard and throw werewolves into the mix as well? That would be pretty sweet.
Those are just a few ideas, there are definetly more*, but, I'll still buy Elder Scrolls V, whenever it comes out, because, I'm a sucker like that.
*http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/7588-Experienced-Points-Voice-vs-Choice
True, Bethesda seems to be really good about listening to the audience and fixing things they find to be problems.XMark said:
Though I did enjoy Oblivion more than Fallout3, I still say overall Fallout3 was a better game mechanics wise.
OT: Breaking limbs. Being a master of hand to hand has never had so many perks. I got to the point in F3 that I could break peoples arms and give them a concussion just by lightly hitting them while they were blocking. Gods forbid I get of a fully charged sneak punch while their back was turned. Heads rolled. Literally.
Also, the leveling system was much less broken in F3. They should try something similar.
The perks system pissed me off. Only stressing me out each level up, and honestly I only needed half the ones I had.
I did enjoy going out, doing quests and getting perks as a result of that, but they did as much the same in oblivion with diseases and such.
Also, the biggest thing would be to see how you actually affect the world through your actions, other than walking into a completely dead town. Blowing up Megaton was truly an awesome experience.
SPeaking of dastardly deeds, the moral system sucked in F3. THey should make it more like Fable, where people react to you in realistic ways. Sure you could be a complete evil bastard, but if you're not famous it shouldn't be obvious in the NPC's reactions. Vice versa as well. Anything really, other than having a damn DJ(who doesn't even know what a damn disk is) bad mouth you because your morality slider is in the red, only to start listing off the many ways you saved countless towns.
Idiot.
only if he equips itSirBryghtside said:
Ive seen a lot of people saying that they want the Vault-tec Assisted Targeting System implemented in the next game.
If they do, it'll be interestin to see how they explain it.