Feds bust 72 users of a child porn forum.

[DexterNorgam]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

I'm comparing them in the way that you can't choose what turns you on, and just as homosexuals have acquired a taste for their own gender, as have paedophiles acquired a taste for small children. It's not pretty to think about but the pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way for them to live out their urges without harming anyone.

Instead people just straight out lynch them and call for lethal injections. The comparisson with homosexuality is even more valid for that reason, since homosexuals still receive the same treatment in many parts of the world.

Incorrect. Nobody "acquires" sexual "tastes". (you mean orientation) You're born with em hard wired. And while I'm glad that society is working to become more accepting of those who are attracted to adults of the same sex. I roundly reject that the same acceptance should be extended to those who are attracted to children. Its not acceptable.

People call for the injections because there's no fixing these defective people. Yea, that's not pragmatic, but its the hard truth. If you are unfortunate enough to be so defective that youre attracted to children, then your life should pretty much suck. You should be tormented by urges that you can NEVER EVER indulge. Because honestly I care less about protecting the quality of life of a defective pervert than protecting the innocence of a child.

How lonely it must be on that pedestal of yours, I doubt anyone could ever get up there to share your black and white tunnel vision view of the world.

It's our responsibility as a society to do anything we can to help these people, and there are plenty of ways I can think of right off the bat. Hentai for one, or maybe we should supply psychiatrist with floppy discs filled with child pornography that has in some way been deemed as no longer legitimizing an illegal industry. Medical CP if you will.

It sounds far out, but that's the problem with victimless crimes. There's no sane way around them because the laws behind them are insane to begin with.

Nope, I am very not special in my absolute rejection of pedophilia. I got plenty of company "on my pedestal" (lol)

Its our responsibility as a society to protect children. I would be all about helping pedophiles if I could believe that there is way to help them, but the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

The things you suggest to "help them" are actually just enabling them to indulge, not doing anything to correct the problem. And the idea that CP could be produced (think about what that entails) for doctors to hand out is so unbelievably bad that I begin to wonder if you're not just making this argument for laughs.

 

[Atmos Duality]

It's understandably difficult to think about this objectively or ethically.
Yet I cannot help but wonder what sort of treatment you can possibly give to people who "had to" torture children just to jack off.

Not just the people who WATCH that sick shit, the people who MADE IT. FILMED IT.

At that point, you can only study them; it's too ingrained in their behavior to treat, and even if you did "rehabilitate" them, that shit would be on their conscience for the rest of their life.

Every day, you would wake up and realize that you tortured and psychologically/literally raped children just for an orgasm.

At that point, death may seem like mercy.

 

[scottia]

only 13 people were convicted? id think that all 72 would be convicted for at least being a "member" which probably involved illegal things.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Has anyone even considered the option that many of the people involved could be doing this for shits and giggles?

Maybe these are just adolescents fascinated by the sheer extremeness of the content they were seeing, who downloaded this for free and have never had a desire to abuse children nor ever been turned on by the thought of it.

Possibly. One of the main thing that incites people into viewing child pornography is the taboo that surrounds it. It's the same thing with incest pornography whereas it's not the incest itself that provides sexual pleasure but the taboo society has placed upon it.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

But it is an excuse. Mental illnesses ARE used as an excuse for a persons action because their actions were influenced by it and therefore their behaviour cannot in any way be considered normal. Ostracizing pedophiles, calling them sick fucks and trying to harm them will do absolutely nothing to help with their disorder and at the very least I believe you would want them cured or at the very least in control of their actions rather than having them lose any chance at a normal life.

If you cannot controll what you do, you do not belong in society. A mental illness explains, it does not excuse. The two are not the same thing.

Watching child pornography does not make you a bad person and nor does it make you mentally ill.

....

The fuck?

Spoiler

No, really. The fuck? Watching CP doesn't make you a bad person? Try saying that out-loud. Just try.

So, just to be clear with you, Watching CP =/= being a bad person
Hating pedophilic actions and wanting them to be punished = being a bad person\

GOOD TO KNOW!

ERrraaahhccckkk

A pattern of sexual attraction towards children is what makes one a pedophile and frankly we should try and help them rather than persecute their actions.

It's one thing to be something. It's quite another to DO something. And therein lies the distinction

 

[AndyFromMonday]

the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

So I suppose we should jail schizophrenics because they might someday kill a person due to their delusions? There are treatments out there for pedophiles and if we put more work into it we might even find a cure but the thing is no one would be willing to put money into such a thing because everyone's to busy finding more morbid and sadistic ways of punishing them.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

So this forum had at least 72 members? how in the world do these people manage to keep such a thing secret? i just dont get how a pedophile could find another pedophile without getting caught. Maybe they meet in jail...

It was in the deep web, I think.

Heard that from somewhere. Don't really know enough about the topic to really explain what that means or how it effects this, but yeah.

 

[Nikokvaj]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

I'm comparing them in the way that you can't choose what turns you on, and just as homosexuals have acquired a taste for their own gender, as have paedophiles acquired a taste for small children. It's not pretty to think about but the pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way for them to live out their urges without harming anyone.

Instead people just straight out lynch them and call for lethal injections. The comparisson with homosexuality is even more valid for that reason, since homosexuals still receive the same treatment in many parts of the world.

Incorrect. Nobody "acquires" sexual "tastes". (you mean orientation) You're born with em hard wired. And while I'm glad that society is working to become more accepting of those who are attracted to adults of the same sex. I roundly reject that the same acceptance should be extended to those who are attracted to children. Its not acceptable.

People call for the injections because there's no fixing these defective people. Yea, that's not pragmatic, but its the hard truth. If you are unfortunate enough to be so defective that youre attracted to children, then your life should pretty much suck. You should be tormented by urges that you can NEVER EVER indulge. Because honestly I care less about protecting the quality of life of a defective pervert than protecting the innocence of a child.

How lonely it must be on that pedestal of yours, I doubt anyone could ever get up there to share your black and white tunnel vision view of the world.

It's our responsibility as a society to do anything we can to help these people, and there are plenty of ways I can think of right off the bat. Hentai for one, or maybe we should supply psychiatrist with floppy discs filled with child pornography that has in some way been deemed as no longer legitimizing an illegal industry. Medical CP if you will.

It sounds far out, but that's the problem with victimless crimes. There's no sane way around them because the laws behind them are insane to begin with.

Nope, I am very not special in my absolute rejection of pedophilia. I got plenty of company "on my pedestal" (lol)

Its our responsibility as a society to protect children. I would be all about helping pedophiles if I could believe that there is way to help them, but the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

The things you suggest to "help them" are actually just enabling them to indulge, not doing anything to correct the problem. And the idea that CP could be produced (think about what that entails) for doctors to hand out is so unbelievably bad that I begin to wonder if you're not just making this argument for laughs.

Well that's because you completely misunderstood the argument. I'm not talking about producing it, I'm talking about using what's already out there.

Besides, I shouldn't be the one giving people ideas, I'm sure there are people out there more suited than me, who know a hell of a lot more than me about these things, but nobody listens to them because of people like you, shouting "lethal injection!" at the mere notion of paedophilia.

And there is a way to help these people. We can let them have access to all the child porn we want, as long as we make sure that we aren't actually paying anyone to make it in the process. That way they satisfy their urges, and we avoid them having to look into black market sources, where children are harmed every day.

 

[Nikokvaj]

So this forum had at least 72 members? how in the world do these people manage to keep such a thing secret? i just dont get how a pedophile could find another pedophile without getting caught. Maybe they meet in jail...

It was in the deep web, I think.

Heard that from somewhere. Don't really know enough about the topic to really explain what that means or how it effects this, but yeah.

They likely found one another through THW or some other proxy based forum

 

[Himmelgeher]

snip

Yes, out of the two of us, the one defending the poor wittew wapists who JUST CAN'T HELP IT is the sane one. Sure. My point was not that all atrocities are equal. If you want to take everything I say literally, that's your prerogative. My point was that, after a certain point, it doesn't matter if someone raped a child or murdered fifty million people. They both deserve unrelenting torment for their actions. Yes, the mass murderer is undoubtedly worse, only a fool would argue otherwise. But you can't really up the punishment from "death in the most horrific way possible" unless you found a way to bring them back to life just to do it again. And that would essentially be the Catholic version of hell. You shouldn't relent on someone who deserves a punishment just because there's someone else who deserves it more. Here's a hypothetical: someone kills three people and is sentenced to death. If you don't "agree" with the death penalty, just make it life in prison. Now say someone else is convicted of killing ten people. Should he not get the same sentence? Does that mean what that killing ten people is as equally wrong as killing three? Of course not, but the maximum sentence is the maximum sentence. Nothing can change that. To me, raping a child is worse than killing a man, because you are shattering what that child was, is, and could have been and replacing it with a twisted shadow of what it used to be. For that, you deserve no mercy. I don't really care if that makes me a sadist (hint: it doesn't, but if you want to go around throwing ad hominem attacks, go for it), because according to you sadists just can't help themselves.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

If you cannot controll what you do, you do not belong in society. A mental illness explains, it does not excuse. The two are not the same thing.

That's absolutely the biggest crock of shit I've ever read on an internet forum. I suppose autistic people, those suffering from GAD and pretty much every person who suffers from some form of mental illness should be expelled from society because they MIGHT cause some harm to another person. NEWS FLASH! [HEADING=1]EVERYONE SUFFERS FROM SOME FORM OF MENTAL ILLNESS[/HEADING]

You got that right. Every single person in existence suffers from a form of mental illness that might potentially be dangerous to others so I suppose we should just expel those with very "strong" mental illnesses but then where do you draw the damn line?

So, just to be clear with you, Watching CP =/= being a bad person

No, it does not. There are numerous reasons why people view or have at some point viewed child pornography and to claim that all of them are "bad" makes absolutely no sense.

Hating pedophilic actions and wanting them to be punished = being a bad person\

Punished for what? For viewing child porn? I suppose instead of helping them we should just punish them and I suppose when a schizphrenic person beats someone up due to their delusions we should just throw them in jail to rot instead of getting that person the help they need.

Hating someone for having a mental illness is just plain fucking stupid.

Let me put it this way. Can you honestly say you can go an entire year without getting aroused when looking at an attractive individual?

Hating pedophilic actions and wanting them to be punished = being a bad person\

 

[DexterNorgam]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

I'm comparing them in the way that you can't choose what turns you on, and just as homosexuals have acquired a taste for their own gender, as have paedophiles acquired a taste for small children. It's not pretty to think about but the pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way for them to live out their urges without harming anyone.

Instead people just straight out lynch them and call for lethal injections. The comparisson with homosexuality is even more valid for that reason, since homosexuals still receive the same treatment in many parts of the world.

Incorrect. Nobody "acquires" sexual "tastes". (you mean orientation) You're born with em hard wired. And while I'm glad that society is working to become more accepting of those who are attracted to adults of the same sex. I roundly reject that the same acceptance should be extended to those who are attracted to children. Its not acceptable.

People call for the injections because there's no fixing these defective people. Yea, that's not pragmatic, but its the hard truth. If you are unfortunate enough to be so defective that youre attracted to children, then your life should pretty much suck. You should be tormented by urges that you can NEVER EVER indulge. Because honestly I care less about protecting the quality of life of a defective pervert than protecting the innocence of a child.

How lonely it must be on that pedestal of yours, I doubt anyone could ever get up there to share your black and white tunnel vision view of the world.

It's our responsibility as a society to do anything we can to help these people, and there are plenty of ways I can think of right off the bat. Hentai for one, or maybe we should supply psychiatrist with floppy discs filled with child pornography that has in some way been deemed as no longer legitimizing an illegal industry. Medical CP if you will.

It sounds far out, but that's the problem with victimless crimes. There's no sane way around them because the laws behind them are insane to begin with.

Nope, I am very not special in my absolute rejection of pedophilia. I got plenty of company "on my pedestal" (lol)

Its our responsibility as a society to protect children. I would be all about helping pedophiles if I could believe that there is way to help them, but the truth is there isn't a way to help them, they are born with this defect and there is no fixing it.

The things you suggest to "help them" are actually just enabling them to indulge, not doing anything to correct the problem. And the idea that CP could be produced (think about what that entails) for doctors to hand out is so unbelievably bad that I begin to wonder if you're not just making this argument for laughs.

Well that's because you completely misunderstood the argument. I'm not talking about producing it, I'm talking about using what's already out there.

Besides, I shouldn't be the one giving people ideas, I'm sure there are people out there more suited than me, who know a hell of a lot more than me about these things, but nobody listens to them because of people like you, shouting "lethal injection!" at the mere notion of paedophilia.

And there is a way to help these people. We can let them have access to all the child porn we want, as long as we make sure that we aren't actually paying anyone to make it in the process. That way they satisfy their urges, and we avoid them having to look into black market sources, where children are harmed every day.

Still wrong.

1. Never said injections myself. So kindly refrain from saying that I did.
2. Oh, so as long as a child has previously suffered in its making as opposed to currently or recently then child porn is ok for therapeutic reasons?? No, just wrong. The stuff that exists currently is illegal to posses so who's going to be like here ya go government, give this to the doctors...


I don't understand the outpouring of pro child porn and pedophilia notions that have sprung up in this thread.

I mean ya, its a bit barbaric to call for drawing and quartering, but its just idiotic to think that allowing pedos unlimited access to child porn is any kind of solution to anything.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I am very understanding of pedophiles using "imaginary" material to deal with their attraction to children. But what we are talking about here are real kids being abused. They are getting off on a crime that is being filmed. That makes me rather uncomfortable. Just imagine the victim years later knowing that people are still watching them being raped somewhere on the internet.

I understand that real kids are being abused in those videos but you cannot condemn pedophiles for watching those videos ince they are mentally ill. At the very least you should attempt to stop the distribution of such material but condemning someone for looking at it by throwing them in jail for fuck know's how many years is not something I can condone.

As for helping them, pedophile can't come forward. In many cases they would face reporting under child protection laws, even if they haven't yet committed a crime. It's a little unfortunate really as a professional might find a way to help them deal with their urges safely instead of acting out.

And THAT is where the problem is. We're condemning mentally ill individuals to prison, an environment that might potentially aggravate their illness. We need to change the system but as long as pedophilia is seen as a crime and not as a mental illness that cannot happen.

 

[YouBecame]

These pricks will be shredded in prison.

Too right, too.

This is horrendous.

 

[Nikokvaj]

snip

Yes, out of the two of us, the one defending the poor wittew wapists who JUST CAN'T HELP IT is the sane one. Sure. My point was not that all atrocities are equal. If you want to take everything I say literally, that's your prerogative. My point was that, after a certain point, it doesn't matter if someone raped a child or murdered fifty million people. They both deserve unrelenting torment for their actions. Yes, the mass murderer is undoubtedly worse, only a fool would argue otherwise. But you can't really up the punishment from "death in the most horrific way possible" unless you found a way to bring them back to life just to do it again. And that would essentially be the Catholic version of hell. You shouldn't relent on someone who deserves a punishment just because there's someone else who deserves it more. Here's a hypothetical: someone kills three people and is sentenced to death. If you don't "agree" with the death penalty, just make it life in prison. Now say someone else is convicted of killing ten people. Should he not get the same sentence? Does that mean what that killing ten people is as equally wrong as killing three? Of course not, but the maximum sentence is the maximum sentence. Nothing can change that. To me, raping a child is worse than killing a man, because you are shattering what that child was, is, and could have been and replacing it with a twisted shadow of what it used to be. For that, you deserve no mercy. I don't really care if that makes me a sadist (hint: it doesn't, but if you want to go around throwing ad hominem attacks, go for it), because according to you sadists just can't help themselves.

Some hippy liberal douches out there like to think that the only purpose of correctional facilities should be to rehabilitate or have a preventive effect, and that actual punishment accomplishes nothing.

But what do they know.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

So this forum had at least 72 members? how in the world do these people manage to keep such a thing secret? i just dont get how a pedophile could find another pedophile without getting caught. Maybe they meet in jail...

It was in the deep web, I think.

Heard that from somewhere. Don't really know enough about the topic to really explain what that means or how it effects this, but yeah.

The deep web or invisible web just means you use tricks that make it hard to impossible for search engines to index you. For example, at my workplace we have an "internal only" website that simply ignores are queries from outside of two predetermined IP ranges (one internal, one trusted external). No search engine will ever know they are there.

Less draconian versions do things like create a dynamic web page that presents nothing on the page but "1" and "2:" and a button that says "3". The normal helper fields for indexing you of course leave blank. An index page can't make anything useful out of that.

Search engines also only tend to look for web pages using html or shtml. They ignore other protocols like ftp. It is however to set up a login page using just ftp/telnet/etc. This pages are ignored by search engines.

In any of these methods (or others) its critical not to have a link to the hidden site from a visable site or the crawlers will know you exist.

As I mentioned in my first example, most of these hidden sites are legit sites hidden for legal security/privacy reasons. The one thing these sites share is that you pretty much have to be referred to them by someone who knows about them.

Odds are someone tipped off a cop, knowingly or unknowingly.

I know that, more or less, I was just saying that I really don't know a ton about it, and I couldn't explain it well.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

If you cannot controll what you do, you do not belong in society. A mental illness explains, it does not excuse. The two are not the same thing.

That's absolutely the biggest crock of shit I've ever read on an internet forum. I suppose autistic people, those suffering from GAD and pretty much every person who suffers from some form of mental illness should be expelled from society because they MIGHT cause some harm to another person. NEWS FLASH! [HEADING=1]EVERYONE SUFFERS FROM SOME FORM OF MENTAL ILLNESS[/HEADING]

You got that right. Every single person in existence suffers from a form of mental illness that might potentially be dangerous to others so I suppose we should just expel those with very "strong" mental illnesses but then where do you draw the damn line?

So, just to be clear with you, Watching CP =/= being a bad person

No, it does not. There are numerous reasons why people view or have at some point viewed child pornography and to claim that all of them are "bad" makes absolutely no sense.

Hating pedophilic actions and wanting them to be punished = being a bad person\

Punished for what? For viewing child porn? I suppose instead of helping them we should just punish them and I suppose when a schizphrenic person beats someone up due to their delusions we should just throw them in jail to rot instead of getting that person the help they need.

Hating someone for having a mental illness is just plain fucking stupid.

Let me put it this way. Can you honestly say you can go an entire year without getting aroused when looking at an attractive individual?

Hating pedophilic actions and wanting them to be punished = being a bad person\

I'm not hating them because of who they are. I hate them because of what they do. I'm saying we shouldn't allow people in who watch porn that involves children. You're saying we should.

And treatment is not a cure. There's always the threat of relapse.

And I still cannot belive you're defending people who watch CP. That's not moraly grey. That. Is. WRONG!

Punished for what? For viewing child porn? I suppose instead of helping them we should just punish them and I suppose when a schizphrenic person beats someone up due to their delusions we should just throw them in jail to rot instead of getting that person the help they need.

How funny. I have a friend right across the room who is schizphrenic. He want's me to relay a nice "Eff you" to you for comparing what he has to go with to pedophiles in any way shape or form.

Spoiler: However, this thread is getting worse and worse. So I'll leave

Being one thing is one thing. Doing one thing is another. That's my final point.

EDIT: I should also note that I detest this socital aditute that when people do stupid things, it's somehow not their fault. That this somehow absolves them of what they've done.