Feds bust 72 users of a child porn forum.

[DexterNorgam]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

 

[kidd25]

The cops are still knowing what their doing! thank you cops, and sad that other human beings couldn't find something else to do.

 

[Kargathia]

Well, that's 72 symptoms of the problem locked up, but somehow I don't see this kind of public hate leading to any long-term solution.

 

[kidd25]

Lmoa. This thread is pretty amusing. Everyones bleeting "HURR DURR GET DA PEDOS!" and missing a crucial point.


Why not concentrate on catching people who make the product, as opposed to chasing down watchers?

double post. but yeah, that won't work because the people who watch some of them will most likely become product makers. If they enjoy watching it so much and they get the chance to do it in real life, my money is on that they will do it. so um yeah what the crucial point?

 

[DexterNorgam]

Well, that's 72 symptoms of the problem locked up, but somehow I don't see this kind of public hate leading to any long-term solution.

Heh, you mean 72 problems. Each one of those people were defective. Care to enlighten us on some greater long term solution? Because I for one don't believe that people like that can be fixed.

 

[Nikokvaj]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

You couldn't be more wrong. Rejecting pedophilia as wrong and harmful to society isn't repression, its preservation of society.

You're comparing pedophilia to homosexuality?? really? Apples and oranges isn't even in it for that comparison. Also you seem to be saying that people "suffer" from homosexuality, and while I'm straight I bet many homosexuals would beg to differ that.

Heh, i'm pretty new around here...is this type of "reasoning" common on this forum? I didn't expect to see anyone defending pedophilia on a gaming website.

I'm comparing them in the way that you can't choose what turns you on, and just as homosexuals have acquired a taste for their own gender, as have paedophiles acquired a taste for small children. It's not pretty to think about but the pragmatic thing to do would be to find a way for them to live out their urges without harming anyone.

Instead people just straight out lynch them and call for lethal injections. The comparisson with homosexuality is even more valid for that reason, since homosexuals still receive the same treatment in many parts of the world.

 

[Himmelgeher]

Thanks for the constructive response. This is where it gets difficult to discuss further, I have no idea how this stuff is generally disseminated, and don't really want to know. I do hear (don't know if accurate or not though) that it is rife on usenet, which has no way of telling if someone has downloaded the material or not. So no positive re-enforcement to post again. In the case of the people running the board busted yesterday, then there was obviously support happening in the form of better membership perks. And so I was happy they got busted. But someone who grabs stuff of usenet (if the rumour is true), I don't see how they are supporting creation.

And yes I know for law enforcement, detecting this distinction of where material had been downloaded from is too difficult to bother with, so possession of any material is treated the same. I can live with that, just not the idea the act of downloading from any source is 100% supporting creation. I believe, unfortunately, even without support people would create this material (an act that cannot be defended) and post it, even if they could not be sure anyone was downloading.

I don't know very much about it either, but I get the general idea. I also know next to nothing about usenet, so I don't know if I can be much help there. But filesharing sites and torrents generally have a way of letting you know how many people are downloading a particular file (seeders and leeches) so there's almost always a way to find out. But the point is, while the intention of downloading/viewing child porn is "watching child porn" the effect is "I like child porn, please make more" leading the creator to make more. While there would inevitably be some made, because there will always be the occasional bastard in this wonderful little species of ours, if people didn't view it, then the vast majority wouldn't be made. Obviously this is just a hypothesis, since we can't monitor the behavior of pedophiles because the first thing we do with them is throw them in jail (and rightfully so). So while some sources might not have an outlet for positive reinforcement, I'm willing to bet that most do.

 

[Nikokvaj]

Lmoa. This thread is pretty amusing. Everyones bleeting "HURR DURR GET DA PEDOS!" and missing a crucial point.


Why not concentrate on catching people who make the product, as opposed to chasing down watchers?

double post. but yeah, that won't work because the people who watch some of them will most likely become product makers. If they enjoy watching it so much and they get the chance to do it in real life, my money is on that they will do it. so um yeah what the crucial point?

And you have some scientific basis for claiming this?

 

[ph0b0s123]

Exactly who did these people harm?

The children that were in the porn that?s who.

Did they have any involvement in making the porno?

If not, the only emotion I'm getting from this is that it must be terrible living life in a society so repressed that it won't even allow you to harmlessly satisfy your urges without getting thrown in jail.

Saying pedophilia is a something people should repress and not act out on is like saying the same thing about homosexuality, it's uneducated and it only leads to grave unhappiness in the people suffering from it.

If we allowed these people to act out their impulses in the least harmful way imaginable without judging them, not only would that make them lead a better life, it would also mean their urges would be satisfied and they wouldn't do something worse to actual children.

The idea of victimless crimes has never served society in any way, all it's ever lead to is a black market where the people involved are suffering far worse fates because it's out of the public's eye.

"Did they have any involvement in making the porno?" In this case yes, at least for the 'super VIP' members. That was the price of admission. The vital question is how many of these super VIP members were caught, as those were obviously a priority.

Hence why I am happy to have a thread, for once, where I don't have to become unpopular playing devils advocate and being very a bit cynical about the arrests. This was not some guy making a youtube vidoe which looked like he's was singing something dirty to kids. Or someone caught with just drawings. This was individuals that raped and tortured children. Indefensible, so was a pretty good bust, as long as they got the actual producers....

 

[Dags90]

I hate those cases where a murderer gets a life sentence and only ends of having to serve 15 years.

The average time served for homicide is actually just under six years according to the DOJ. Also according to them, the average time served for rape is just a bit higher. Which is kinda stupid, that makes an incentive to murder your rape victim to shut them up.

 

[Kargathia]

Well, that's 72 symptoms of the problem locked up, but somehow I don't see this kind of public hate leading to any long-term solution.

Heh, you mean 72 problems. Each one of those people were defective. Care to enlighten us on some greater long term solution? Because I for one don't believe that people like that can be fixed.

Not too much offense intended here, but I for one think it's people like you who are the problem.

We can be pretty sure here of two things:
-We don't want to accept paedophilia as we're slowly starting to accept homosexuality - this is not a case of two consenting adults.
-At this point it's rather naive to assume that a national campaign of tv spots saying "having sex with kids is baaaaaaad" will suddenly stop it from happening.

So what we get is a massive stigma on something individuals have very little to no personal control over. A stigma which both is happily persecuting people for failing to excercise massive amounts of self-control, and making it extremely hard for these same people to find medical and psychological help while being able to lead a normal life.

Don't get me wrong here - I don't expect every one of them to willingly cooperate even if they were given the chance, but right now, due to sentiments of people like you, they would be outcasts the moment they seek help - whether they've done anything or not.

And that is the actual problem. You'll still have to persecute people who'd rather make somebody else suffer than to fix their own problem, but at least don't do so while at the same time denying everyone with these inclinations a better way out.

 

[kidd25]

Lmoa. This thread is pretty amusing. Everyones bleeting "HURR DURR GET DA PEDOS!" and missing a crucial point.


Why not concentrate on catching people who make the product, as opposed to chasing down watchers?

double post. but yeah, that won't work because the people who watch some of them will most likely become product makers. If they enjoy watching it so much and they get the chance to do it in real life, my money is on that they will do it. so um yeah what the crucial point?

And you have some scientific basis for claiming this?

of course without science its not true! how about an example, if i like to watch say high school musical or glee. Also i become a good movie producer by say making movie that i saw at a young age. its kinda like doing what you see on tv or even better, if one of these men say i can't find any kiddie porn and well i babysit my 9 year old niece alot, while her parents are away for about 2 days. in short, pedo will always look for a way to get what they want, if you take away a producer another will pop up, and they are mostly people who use to watch it.

 

[Colour Scientist]

I hate those cases where a murderer gets a life sentence and only ends of having to serve 15 years.

The average time served for homicide is actually just under six years according to the DOJ. Also according to them, the average time served for rape is just a bit higher. Which is kinda stupid, that makes an incentive to murder your rape victim to shut them up.

Well, provided they can find the body, if they find evidence of rape can't they convict them for that? I'm not going to pretend I know more about this kind of thing than I do.

 

[Dags90]

Well, provided they can find the body, if they find evidence of rape can't they convict them for that? I'm not going to pretend I know more about this kind of thing than I do.

Rape is hard enough to prove with a complaining witness. There's no actual person there to contest that the sex was consensual. Add in the fact that murders are rather common among sexual partners, and you're on your way to reasonable doubt.

 

[Nikokvaj]

Well, that's 72 symptoms of the problem locked up, but somehow I don't see this kind of public hate leading to any long-term solution.

Heh, you mean 72 problems. Each one of those people were defective. Care to enlighten us on some greater long term solution? Because I for one don't believe that people like that can be fixed.

Not too much offense intended here, but I for one think it's people like you who are the problem.

We can be pretty sure here of two things:
-We don't want to accept paedophilia as we're slowly starting to accept homosexuality - this is not a case of two consenting adults.
-At this point it's rather naive to assume that a national campaign of tv spots saying "having sex with kids is baaaaaaad" will suddenly stop it from happening.

So what we get is a massive stigma on something individuals have very little to no personal control over. A stigma which both is happily persecuting people for failing to excercise massive amounts of self-control, and making it extremely hard for these same people to find medical and psychological help while being able to lead a normal life.

Don't get me wrong here - I don't expect every one of them to willingly cooperate even if they were given the chance, but right now, due to sentiments of people like you, they would be outcasts the moment they seek help - whether they've done anything or not.

And that is the actual problem. You'll still have to persecute people who'd rather make somebody else suffer than to fix their own problem, but at least don't do so while at the same time denying everyone with these inclinations a better way out.

I couldn't agree with you more, sexual abuse of children is obviously unacceptable, but what I honestly find even more repulsive is that a in a 21'st century society in which the standard of quality should be how we treat our weakest and most vulnerable, we accept that some people have to go through life suffering gravely in silence and our only response is "if they do the slightest to do something about it, give them the chair"

 

[Lt.Snuffles]

I hate to start an arguement, but you can't claim the moral high ground over these people when describing how you would like them killed.

I honestly felt a little sick when I read "if shes not in distress it doesn't belong in here".

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I can't believe how many sadistic fucks populate these forums. Six pages of people spouting unrelenting hatred downright bordering on antisocial personality disorder. I understand that what some of those people did was disgusting but at the very least attempt to convey your point in a way that shows you're a goddamn fucking human being.