Female Gamers: Are you tired of being presented with no dignity?

[DarkEternal]

It's true, but really, it goes both ways. Honestly, I find the way how women are portrayed on a psychological basis far more offensive than the fact if they look like a pair of huge breasts with non existing waist settled on a pair of ludicrously long legs.

The most appealing factor in games to me is when women act like women, and men act like men, and when both look like women and men. Men need to look strong, at least in my opinion, if they play such a role. This is why I can't play as much jrpgs as I did when I was much younger, I just can't take an androgynous teen of 100 pounds of weight being able to take on a behemoth Hulk of a man three times his own size and kicking the crap out of him. This goes for women as well, please, I like an independent, awesome woman character as much as the next person, but there are extremes. Just like a man hopped up on steroids screams "Rip an' tear!" while taking on the very legions of hell with nothing but his massive testicles made out of adamantium, so too, I dislike when they make a woman, quite plainly, a *****. Not "bitchy", but really, unrealistically awfully written character that kicks arse and takes names just for the sake of doing so. Let women be women, and men be men, that's all there really is to it. At least to me.

 

[Xorghul]

Then if ever I get very rich(as if) I'll fund ya.

 

[Trivun]

The thing is, a lot of gamers are 14-year-old nerds or fratboys who take one look at the cover of a game case and think "hmmmm, boobies" or "hmmmm, sports", or even "hmmmm, shooty-shooty!", and then play that game regardless of how good it is. And this is coming from a Halo fan, which features two out of three of these. And I'm not even a fratboy or 14 years old, either.

Anyway. There are plenty of great games out there that have realistic females in them, still able to be kick-ass without the need for giant wongas. For example, the obvious two, Alex Vance (HL2) and Zoey (L4D). Plus, Chell of Portal, and the less recognised April Ryan of Dreamfall and The Longest Journey. Even a Halo example, despite my previous Halo reference, would be Prof. Ellen Anders in Halo Wars. Do any of them have bazookas that take up the entire screen? Nope. They all look normally and realistically attractive, rather than some teenager's fantasy. Which goes to show that women can be portrayed as lead or supporting characters in gaming, without having to be objectified as sex objects. It's simply the norm because a lot of gamers are too immature to think of women as anything else. And there is your problem, ladies. Right there.

 

[Jirlond]

Im tired of the girl fan-service of jrpgs and girl games having teenage boys with good hair?

We can't live up to that anti-gravity hair!!!

 

[bluepilot]

Game is about fantasy, not reality

It's not about either--it's usually about wish fulfillment, which is a mix of fantasy and reality. The only games I can think of that are all about fantasy are things like flower and flow and Katamari

I do not see it as an indignity. Epic mutaliation of both the female and male body has been depicted in art forms throught history. Mutalation or exaggeration of certain features become stylistic traits.

The thing is, the stylistic traits associated with women are those that signal 'object' while those associated with men signal 'subject'.

I think this is the best way to tackle sexism. By being the best at what you do and staying out of gender politics. No-one gets anywhere by complaining.

Well, not really--I mean, that's how women got stuff like the vote and equal(er) pay. Those were pretty major.

Your use of quotage is very elegant and I am non-too computer savvy, so I cannot really emulate it, but I will try to capture your arguments.

Point 1: Fantasy or reality: Of course games have to be a mix of fantasy and reality otherwise it is very difficult to relate to them. But if we can define `reality` as `what happens to you everyday` I think games have very little resemblance. Maybe I just play the wrong kind of games....I also mean fantasy as in `what we want`. Of course I want a pretty man like Seymore from FF but will end up with someone rather different. Of course some men want women with big boobs, but in reality with forces like gravity and sugery bills it can turn out not so pretty in the end.

Point 2: Objectification: Very vaild point. I think this is the most important point in the whole argument so far. That exaggeration in itself is not a bad thing, but rather the objectification of women. I agree with you on this but could you expand and give a few concrete examples. Especially on men as `subject matter`

Point 3: The effectivness of gender polictics: It is true that in the past, effectivly led protests and organisations have led to many milestones being accomplished for women as a whole. However, unfortunatly, protests and legislation are not as effective as they once were (look at the `effectivness` of the Iraq war protests). In current gender polictics, it is becoming far more effective to keep your head down and work hard to be good at what you do. Getting involed in gender politics has you labelled a `stirer` and getting questioned about your commitment to your job. I think the way forward is to stop making demands up front and slowly work your way up from the backseats. Perhaps my way of thinking is strange but for there to be change their has to be both the driving force and backbone. We have a lot of wonderful ladies in the driving seats but we need more skilled professionals to be the backbone. Do you see my point? We cannot be equal to men unless we are doing skilled jobs as good as they are. Medicine is catching up in the UK but there are a lot more areas that need intelligent women.

 

[IceStar100]

Oh dear lord another one of these. IT'S NOT REAL PEOPLE. When they start putting out mister and miss norm go out a by there first house. Then that is the day you will have won and killed games too. Not many want real life. We want to kill the god save the hot princess and fly a cool space ship. While looking like someone who benchs said space ship. Real life sucks keep it out of my fantasy.

Right--but the question is why don't we want to kill the god and save the hot PRINCE and fly a cool space ship? Wouldn't that be the furthest thing from real life?

We might not want real life, but we don't want pure fantasy either. We want *wish fulfillment* which is fantasy, but fantasy connected to real life.

as mentioned about 100 times men dont get all up tight about over musculer/attractive men so why are you??

Because there's nothing undignified about the way those men are portrayed. I mean, if every man was portrayed like this:

I think you'd hear a few complaints from guys...

I disagree if you can't tell fantasy from the real would your in a heap of troble. I don't expect any women to be Lara Croft. Heck just knowing the back trobles that poor women would have irl. It's fun to look at here. Does any women expect me to act like a guy in a romance novel or a soap opera. I'd hope not it a fantasy simple as that an no I don't offend by Homer Simpson. He just a toon. I promise it like Yatzee said we've gotten closer to reality and found out it's not really worth it. I can promise there are girls who want a bad boy and a dangerous man. Real is the bad boy leave you with a child and no support what so ever and the dangerous man gets you kill. That all said I know I'd never have a chance with Samus or Alex IRL theyed get me killed. Once again keep you reality out of my fantasy.

 

[curty129]

But... But... why does anybody care..? If its a good game.. does it matter if it's a giant boob, or a tiny 12 footed rat.. It's a game, it was never meant to represent reality.. so.. i don't understand why anybody could.. be offended.. totally baffled.

 

[Cenii]

Entertainment, of all sorts, often uses stereotypes as a source of reference. They are simple and offer little or no variation on what one might consider a 'stock character'. While not all stereotypes are harmful, most are just downright stupid, this 'wrongness' helps to create an anchor around which we build memories - need to decide what your pirate protagonist will be wearing on his console debut? whack an eye-patch and a wooden leg on him and away we go.

The point is big ears are made bigger, machomen made muscular and fourteen year old boys will always be attracted to lumps of flesh with nipples, so long as they are attached to a feminine chest, be it virtual or not!

 

[MercurySteam]

Isn't having testicles a prerequisite for having 'dignity'?

Funniest. Line. Ever

From characters to covers, women are repeastedly represented in unrealistic, often impossible (according to physics and anatomy) ways, that are completely IRRELEVENT to their characters. So none of those "What about Superman's chest?" comebacks. He has to be strong to beat the crap out of people, you don't need GG breasts and a leather suit to be a kick-butt lady.
SO girls, what are your thoughts?

Ok, first off I'm a guy but I'll let that one slide. The reason women in games are represented with wearing a square-foot of fabric and having massive tits (most of the time) is cause it's just so much more appealing to to the vast majority of the audience playing them (us males). Who would play a game with a butt ugly girl with a flat chest? The whole point of games is to escape reality. And what better way to escape reality than to make today's random winner of super-power-acquisition have cascading perfect hair, a slim body, and a nice ass? Besides, taking the game WET for example the main character Rubi Malone actually doesn't have her sexiness flaunted as much as you'd think (perhaps Artifical Mind & Movement don't want to look like perverts) but she is still portrayed as a sexy, ass kicking, beast of a woman. And Eliza Dushku has such a sexy voice.

 

[DracoSuave]

I heard that some time in the seventies or so, Video Games were considered an -escapist- form of entertainment, and that escapism tends towards exageration of elements designed to highten the level of fantasy for the participant.

So why are =people= unrealistic in video games? Because videogames are not trying to be realistic, but are trying to be escapist in their nature, for the most part.

Maybe they aren't trying to be realistic, but they're also not trying to be completely divorced from reality. Rarely is a game a complete form of escapism: usually it's some sort of wish fulfillment.

Bingo. This right here answers the entire reason of the entire thread. Look at what the media engine pushes upon American culture as 'what you should desire to be.'

Compare with video games. See corrolation.

It's not a -video game- issue. It's an issue with North American Society in general.

 

[RanD00M]

Huzzah. I find myself with more ammo: Ninja Gaiden 2 - now you can make her tits jiggle yourself! WITH YOUR sixaxis controller!
*facepalm*
Really?
Is this what men want?
Why don't you go get a girlfriend, and figure out how it works in the real world. Now I BELIEVE the article about most gamers being overweight, friendless introverts.

No that is not what Men want.That is what 12 year old boys want.And most the gamers that buy all thoes games that use half naked women are of a much younger base then that more mature gamers.Even though i might only be 15 i know what i am talking about here.As a mature gamer i can say that i know where your coming from on this matter but still don´t you think us men are rather sick of all the male protagonists being 6foot 5.Being able to lift half a car and looking like all the best looking men put together.

 

[Nmil-ek]

Huzzah. I find myself with more ammo: Ninja Gaiden 2 - now you can make her tits jiggle yourself! WITH YOUR sixaxis controller!
*facepalm*
Really?
Is this what men want?
Why don't you go get a girlfriend, and figure out how it works in the real world. Now I BELIEVE the article about most gamers being overweight, friendless introverts.

Great sweeping generalisations my favorite thing to pick appart, yes men do want this and some men dont and some men want something entirley different you cant paint everything with such a broad brush or you better be prepared to be proven wrong. Take note your talking about a TEAM FUCKING NINJA game and your suprised at the juvanility? Its bloody Team Ninja story, character and modesty are not part of their repitoure rather than waving your finger at an entire gender how about you focus that energy on the bloody developers yes consumers feed the market but they dont supply or control it.

Society is always going to portray things as it likes and women are one of them that will never change, society is steeped in it and hell women get off easy when was the last time a guy was not expected to be fit, well paid, educated, have a car/flat take care of the finances?

 

[Zersy]

Hmmm it has died down now but i think female gamers have just learned to live with it but looking at most games of this or next year they all got dignity like in inFAMOUS Coles girlfriend rather than being super hot she's just the average person and from what i've seen recently it all seems to fit. Like Harley Quinn from the new Arkham Asylum she's totally crazy and her personality seems to reflect by the way she is presented poison ivy again it matches up with what she is.

it's only DOA or annoying japenese games that screw with it.

 

[Dys]

Avykins was right, back on the first page. Grow the fuck up, sex sells so get over it. Do we complain about the stupidly good builds men have in videogames? If it bothers you that much, don't buy them (and it's also probably a good idea to skim over the rest of my post as I highlight your massive hypocrasy).

More to the point, do we complain about the legitimate exploitations of womens? Society forcing bullshit products on them by forcing impossible physiches and looks all the while making them look easy and natural but hey, videogames market toward adolescent boys who like boobs, so lets ignore it. Surely we should be ranting about mabelline or David Jones before we take a swing at video games. Fuck, what about the mainstream movie industry? How regularly do you see unnatractive (or even just real looking girls, regardless of atractiveness) in action movies? Or those stupid highschool teenage girl movies (you know, bring it on, mean girls and so on).

This whole contention is stupid.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Not this again. Who the frack cares about female gamers? Stop whining about girls in video games being hotter than you could ever, ever, ever be. Until they turn all the male characters to fat, greasey, cheeto covered slobs you have no right to complain.
Simple fact is, the majority does not want a fat, acne scarred chick any more than they do in their male leads. Apart from Mario how many ugly, unappealing male main characters are there?
The only thing that really destroys female gamers dignity is when they are seen crying over such a trivial matter.
Society likes pretty people. If you do not like it, do not buy it.

Hmm.. you obviously havn't been around many female gamers, or maybe many females. So here's the rub:
I play games. I also have D-cup breasts, weigh around 130 pounds, have never had skin problems in my life, no longer menstruate thanks to a little implant in my arm, and have been described as "nothing short of magnificent". I have it pretty good you know. I drew a lucky card in the genetics department, and I like to take care of myself. But you know what? I care about my identity too. When I play a game, I want the focus to be on game play. I want a good, believable story. I want immersive character development. I don't want unrealistic, sexually driven character design. If I'm suppose to be wearing battle armor, put me in friggin' battle armor, not a peice of tinfoil and vinyl that my nipples barely stay inside.

You know this post will not make anyone like you, "nothing short of magnificent"?

If you have it so good then stop complaining about something that barely matters.

And besides, you say Superman needs the muscles, ok, but why does Marcus Fenix need the muscles?

It's no different from male to female, your view is just warped.