Female Gamers: Are you tired of being presented with no dignity?

[Neemie]

what about the real life women who are attractive and have large breasts? If we take all the large-bosomed lasses out of video games then they'll feel under-represented.

I know you're just being silly here... but seriously. Oh boo.

Does any male here actually know what a REAL C, D, E or F cup looks like (E or F being other terms for DD or DDD)? The Japanese are especially funny about this; I own a Japanese E bra This is not NEARLY as big as it sounds; I bought it cuz they're cheaper over there. If we were talking manga, according to some chart on the interwebs, this would put me on or around, what, Orihime level? Something like that? Yet if I were to walk down the street, even when I was in Japan, NO GUY would notice my chest as being particularly out of the ordinary. PERIOD.

Really really big boobs usually belong to (much) bigger women, (so the contrast isn't very big, as the band size is as big as the cup size) or look far smaller than guys seem to expect. Measurements are really awkward and depend on your back width, and cup sizes change with band width.

There is no girl with boobs that look like Ivy's, or even a character from WoW, even with falsies. These people would have to be... I dunno, 34 DDDDDs (a 34H), at least? She'd be 1/1,000,000,000,000 if she did exist, and boy, would her boobies sag.

 

[Shapsters]

Sometimes you have to take the good with the bad, sure there are female characters that have huge tits, 0 waist line and huge butts but there are also characters like Alyx Vance and Faith(Mirrors Edge) that are very strong women with no attention paid to their body. Women in video games are the same as women in real life, there are strong, powerful women but there are also bimbos with boob jobs and blonde hair.

Also, think about who is buying the games, video game producers are marketing toward the easily swayed age of 12-15. If a 13 year old boy is going to buy a game with a female in it, is it going to be the one that can handle herself dresses modestly has has a strong personality or the one with gigantic tits and wears tiny amounts of clothes?

In the end I have two lessons, take the good with the bad and sex sells.

 

[tsolless]

Really? What about my freedom of speech? I can't complain about things I do not accept?

Sure you can complain but my point is about the word that you chose, a la "refuse".

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Personally I see sexism goes both ways ... women say that the way they are portrayed in games is sexist. But how many male leads involve the average man?

There's two defining key roles of men in videogames, you have pretty-boys like in j-games and you have the rugged, manly-man of halo and GoW.

Now no amount of steroids is going to make me built like your standard Western FPS juggernaught .... nor any amount of estrogen going to make me look like Tidus <.<

What's FUNNY is that girls say men objectify women ...

Go to Japan and you see the male crossplayers and pretty boys and women hang off them .... don't try to tell me it doesn't go both ways.

Women objectify men to hugely unrealistic levels of beauty just as much ... so women aren't any less guilty.

If anything, men have it worse .... we play games with western juggernaughts, a part of our soul hoping we could be so successful and powerful as society deems that is HOW WE SHOULD BE ... the Master Man ....

And you play J-games and half the characters that are male you sorta just take for fact because of the lack of breasts and because they say so.

And both are glorified as the ideal examples of what it is to have rugged handsomeness, or grace and beauty ... and both are at such extremes as they could NEVER be ascertained regardless.

Games about these super titan males ... made by other males ... within a male orientated market. So sorry, I am sympathetic towards the ideal women portrayed in games, and yes, are largely unbelievable in any real life situation ... but my sympathy goes also to other gaming brothers just as much.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

what about the real life women who are attractive and have large breasts? If we take all the large-bosomed lasses out of video games then they'll feel under-represented.

I know you're just being silly here... but seriously. Oh boo.

Does any male here actually know what a REAL C, D, E or F cup looks like (E or F being other terms for DD or DDD)? The Japanese are especially funny about this; I own a Japanese E bra This is not NEARLY as big as it sounds; I bought it cuz they're cheaper over there. If we were talking manga, according to some chart on the interwebs, this would put me on or around, what, Orihime level? Something like that? Yet if I were to walk down the street, even when I was in Japan, NO GUY would notice my chest as being particularly out of the ordinary. PERIOD.

Really really big boobs usually belong to (much) bigger women, (so the contrast isn't very big, as the band size is as big as the cup size) or look far smaller than guys seem to expect. Measurements are really awkward and depend on your back width, and cup sizes change with band width.

There is no girl with boobs that look like Ivy's, or even a character from WoW, even with falsies. These people would have to be... I dunno, 34 DDDDDs (a 34H), at least? She'd be 1/1,000,000,000,000 if she did exist, and boy, would her boobies sag.

True. I dated a woman for a year who was a 16G and she was a stocky lass. Seriously, if she had of had Ivy's waistline she would have snapped in half; they weighed a tonne. I can understand why she had back pain all the time. Even DD's weigh quite a bit. Naturally, there is no way they'd sit up like grapefruits without some serious support.

 

[tsolless]

Really? What about my freedom of speech? I can't complain about things I do not accept?

Sure you can complain but my point is about the word that you chose, a la "refuse".

Well, I can also refuse, can't I? If I don't like what you're saying, I can choose not to listen OR to complain, right?

Again yes you can but let's jsut drop it since all this is now is an argument about semantics due to slightly different perceptions on the connotations of the word "refuse".

OT:

I can see how people can get annoyed but I don't see how it's much different that Gears of War styles of making the men all tough and huge.

 

[aalio]

Are you honestly serious? Guys don't complain that we are represented as the macho man who runs around shooting things and being awesome. Its a load of bull that you complain about it being "unfair to women" when guys are in the exact same position. Also, they aren't real people! They're fictional characters.

 

[Emeli]

Wow, this one has gone crazy! I'd respond to some of the more poignant posts, but really that's a whole lot of time I could spend admiring some rippling male torsos.

So I'm just gunna go ahead and reiterate a post I made a few months back on a similar issue.

Gaming is about escapism and sexism goes both ways. People want to either be or screw the character they're watching, which is the point of a game, it's not just men, we all play games as an escape from reality, because when you shoot someone with a shotgun in real life things tend to get very serious very fast.

You can use the argument "Superman needs a big chest" until the cows come home, that's never going to obscure the lovingly rendered, highly improbable, superhumanly perfect male figures that dance around our screen in just about every game. On people who aren't even supposed to be that buff. I've known army guys, it's true, they're pretty ripped, but I have yet to see one who even vaguely resembles, say, Chris Redfield.

I guess what I'm trying to say here is that I don't find it sexist. It's easier to conceal a penis than a figure, it's true, but a pair of broad shoulders, a slim waist and a barrel chest is a figure as much as big boobs, round hips and a little waist.

If you want sexism in gameplay, I look no further than the two-dimensional characters that so often tit around in those curvy figures.

 

[tsolless]

I can see how people can get annoyed but I don't see how it's much different that Gears of War styles of making the men all tough and huge.

Check the title: it's about the female characters being presented with "no dignity." I wouldn't say being presented as "all tough and huge" is being presented as undignified, as some sort of object for someone else's pleasure. Someone presented all tough and huge is presented as a subject, a person who exists for himself and is large and in charge.

That's the difference.

Sure but often these people are represented as being testosterone bound dumbasses who are not intelligent in any way and live only for killing.

No differences, both are equally sexist and I am incredibly amazed that you are even attempting to deny this.

 

[Hexenwolf]

I can see how people can get annoyed but I don't see how it's much different that Gears of War styles of making the men all tough and huge.

Check the title: it's about the female characters being presented with "no dignity." I wouldn't say being presented as "all tough and huge" is being presented as undignified, as some sort of object for someone else's pleasure. Someone presented all tough and huge is presented as a subject, a person who exists for himself and is large and in charge.

That's the difference.

That's not what he means. What he's referring to is men being presented as large and violent and unable to see any other method of solving a problem than "shoot it, or if you're lucky and it gets close, cut it in half with a chainsaw".

However, even as a guy, I think the objectification of women in video games is a bad thing. And even worse, it's unnecessary. Even for a male target audience, having female characters that are real and not solely sex objects is actually usually much more memorable and, in fact, preferable. I submit Alyx from Half Life 2 and Zoey from Left 4 Dead as prime examples.

Me personally, I consider Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2 to be one of my favorite characters.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

Honestly, Cheezy..

If you cant see how a group called "Girl Gamers" for GIRL GAMERS with the goal to SUPPORT GIRL GAMERS or the National Association for the ADVANCEMENT of COLORED PEOPLE is "Exclusionary" by their very definition of name, then there is no point in further discussing things with you. You apparently will defend anything from your perspective no matter how many amazing ridiculous leaps in logic it requires to defend your point of view. And thats fine. You have your opinion, I have mine.

And yet to you, anyone starting a "White Male Gamers" support group would only be doing so for "racist reasons".

It's called a double standard sir, and you are apparently in full support of that.
I don't need to make tortured readings of statements to draw the very simple conclusions that they represent. When you have to contrive overly-complicated excuses to justify your claim that they are not exclusionary only makes it even more difficult to defend.

But whatever my friend. I'm done with this topic, once and for good. For we have nothing to gain or to lose by continuing a pointless discussion.

 

[Zer_]

Is it really about irrelevance? Is that all you've got now? There are not only tons of irrelevant things in games, but in real life too. Also, putting DoA styled females in Bioshock would be rather ridiculous by any standards. It doesn't fit with the theme of the game. On the other hand. DoA females in a DoA game makes sense, because they fit the theme of the game, which is a fighting game featuring "Sexy" female fighters.

And yeah I don't really like Gears of War, but I'm not out on a crusade to end big armored space marines. Sure, you can say that you don't like the aesthetics or the looks of a particular character in a game. You can also say the character seems out of place too, but when you start pulling the it's offensive or it harms your dignity, that's when you're crossing the line. Seriously there's nothing wrong with someone adding a character like Ivy to a game.

I just think this is an issue that is taken way out of proportion. Some of you make it out as a socially dangerous thing which is a load of shit. Yeah, I get it, you don't like unrealistically curvaceous characters in video games. There are games that don't feature these types of characters, and there are some damn fine ones too. It's not like Ivy's image is destroying relationships between people around the world... And let's face it, if there's a serious relationship issue out there somehow concerning Ivy I think it'd be a couple that is better off separated.

 

[tsolless]

I can see how people can get annoyed but I don't see how it's much different that Gears of War styles of making the men all tough and huge.

Check the title: it's about the female characters being presented with "no dignity." I wouldn't say being presented as "all tough and huge" is being presented as undignified, as some sort of object for someone else's pleasure. Someone presented all tough and huge is presented as a subject, a person who exists for himself and is large and in charge.

That's the difference.

That's not what he means. What he's referring to is men being presented as large and violent and unable to see any other method of solving a problem than "shoot it, or if you're lucky and it gets close, cut it in half with a chainsaw".

However, even as a guy, I think the objectification of women in video games is a bad thing. And even worse, it's unnecessary. Even for a male target audience, having female characters that are real and not solely sex objects is actually usually much more memorable and, in fact, preferable. I submit Alyx from Half Life 2 and Zoey from Left 4 Dead as prime examples.

Me personally, I consider Claire Redfield in Resident Evil 2 to be one of my favorite characters.

Thank you.

If portraying men as gigantic hulks that are largely ignorant of anything and have little to no intelligence and resort to violence first isn't a sexist stereotype then neither is showing unrealistically proportioned women with skimpy clothing.

First you were talking about how it is unrealistic and makes people self conscious (which both stereotypes are and do) and now you are talking about the whole object versus subject thing.

A violent hulk with no personality is portrayed as much of an object as a subservient women, in my opinion.