'Feminazi' is sadly one of the most common examples of Godwin in our society.

[KAPTAINmORGANnWo4life]

You know how the Escapist is so known for calling people out for comparing anything to Nazis, even if it's an appropriate comparison?

This is the one time I've never seen it applied. And this is one of the most appropriate times to tell someone they're a nazi or compare them to nazis. Even if you disagree with some of the more extreme feminists, it's utterly ridiculous to compare them to nazis.

That's because you are missing the point. It's a mere figure of speech used to compare the extremism.

Weren't the Black Panthers like the Nazis so to speak?

They weren't particularly different. Especially when they got attached to the Nation of Islam movements and became Antisemitic. There's even a marginally well-known protest wherein both the Panthers/Nation of Islam and the KKK were protesting the same kind of Jewish bogeyman that Europe had for centuries.


Also, more On Topic, this smacks of Muslims or Christians getting mad because people are talking down about Creationists or al-Qaeda. Normal people in modern 1st and 2nd World countries don't perpetuate sex discrimination, and those who do, either under the guise of Feminism or Tradition, get called out by people who do not agree with them.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I'm pretty sure that negates your argument at least somewhat.

Yes, personal anecdotes negate broader statements, especially ones with researchable and quantifiable use.

The example I gave, for example.

But hey, I know black people who call people "niggers." The word must not be offensive!

I guess we're done here unless you wish to stop selectively ignoring the very topical example I gave (Which likely spawned this thread in the first place).

Otherwise, I've driven home drunk and not gotten caught or in an accident. all those claims about drunk driving must be false.

Holy strawman arguments, Batman!

Because the word "******" and the word "feminazi" are comparable and both have long histories of use in a bigoted manner, correct?

Oh wait, no. Just "******".

And I can't even think of clever way to call your comparison to drunk driving out for being ridiculous because it's just that ridiculous.

Listen, I read what you said about where the word originated from, but the way it's used has changed. Yes, that's a legitimate argument.

And just because some dumbass politician uses it in the, yes, negative and bigoted manner in which it was originally used, does NOT mean that's the way the general public sees the word. He was using it as a word to try and spin things against an opponent in a political debate. It was terrible, disgusting, chauvinistic, and he should be reprimanded.

But the VAST majority of people, including a ton of feminists, use the term to describe extremist women who believe that men in general and women who use makeup are lesser beings who want to control women and make sure they're never seen as equals in society.

I understand if you're heard it in the negative connotation that it'd be difficult to get over that, but look around. MAYBE my experience is the happy minority, but I feel like you'll see it's usually used to describe people whose ramblings actually send gender equality back a few decades.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Snip: "Feminists aren't Nazis."

Thanks for deducing the obvious, have you got any other profound knowledge you'd like to share with us?

It isn't a comparison, nobody is saying they're Nazis by calling them feminazis. What people are doing by calling them that is saying that they're fanatical. It isn't an ideological link, it's an attitude link.

 

[Something Amyss]

He just provided an exact example of someone who got called a feminazi who isn't an extremist.

Thank you. given the response I thought that portion of my post was invisible or something.

Its a stupid term, especially considering the people accused of it are often not extremists at all. Its just a silencing term, call her a feminazi and maybe she will shut up and we can carry on doing sexist things!

And yes, this is the problem. This is how it's used. Nobody wants to be accused of fantaticism (well, almost nobody), and nobody wants to be equated with Nazis (well, almost nobody). It's a "shut the fuck up" argument because you're equating a whole movement (feminism) with something horrible and fanatic.

And even "better" if you combine it with other words like "slut" (defined in the right-wing vernacular as any woman who ever has any sex at all).

again, which happened in the very real, very current example I gave.

Again, THANK YOU.

 

[Winnosh]

The point most people are trying to make when they talk about Feminazis is that they are not Feminists.

Feminists are about female empowerment and equality. Feminazis are about placing themselves over others and quashing all things male. They are the nut jobs not the real feminists.

Feminazis see women as some sort of MASTER RACE

 

[Terminate421]

I don't mind equal rights for either sex, I am a guy, but its just a personal thing.

I once actually went shopping to get my little brother a birthday gift at a toys R Us, I ended up getting the last one, as I made my way to the checkout line, some women breaks down in fronts of me and tells me I am "A sexist prick who holds women back from being good moms!!!11!", needless to say, security kicked her out and I think they "helped" her cause because they were both guys. Call this coincidence but I ran into one of the security guys about 2 months later and he said that, "Well thanks that that "incident", we had to hire more women at the work place."

Femenism? Fine. Sexism/Feminazism? Men are subject to it too ladies!

 

[ZeroMachine]

"Nazi" is another way of saying "fanatic" in this context, it only has to do with how hardcore you are into feminism, not with any of it's ideological aspects. I think it's a pretty simple thing too.

Then why is it used in a general sense in condescension towards feminists in general (or specific cases who are not particularly harccore)?

Case in point: Candra Fluke is now a "Feminazi" because she spoke before Congress about a friend who lost an ovary due to a Catholic institution barring birth control (a treatment for MANY issues).

Now she's a "slut" and a "prostitute" and a "feminazi" who "can't keep her legs closed."

What about that implies extremism on HER end?

I have never heard anyone but extremist "all men are evil rapists/penises are the cause of all our problems" feminists referred to as "feminazis". I'm friends with quite a few feminists. They've referred to the extremists as feminazis.

I'm pretty sure that negates your argument at least somewhat.

Not really?
He just provided an exact example of someone who got called a feminazi who isn't an extremist.
And just because you know some feminists who use the word, doesn't mean all do or think its acceptable.

Its a stupid term, especially considering the people accused of it are often not extremists at all. Its just a silencing term, call her a feminazi and maybe she will shut up and we can carry on doing sexist things!

Also, WHY MAKE THESE THREADS???

Gamers in general are not the people to ask about feminism.
We haven't even started to sort out the sexism in our industry or community!
I can't even say I'm female without being sworn at, threatened or called an attention whore.

Surely you aren't saying that an entire group of people must be ignorant on a subject just because of the fact that some in the group are, are you?

I'm pretty sure that'd be called bigotry.

And by extension, hypocrisy.

 

[Phasmal]

I don't mind equal rights for either sex, I am a guy, but its just a personal thing.

I once actually went shopping to get my little brother a birthday gift at a toys R Us, I ended up getting the last one, as I made my way to the checkout line, some women breaks down in fronts of me and tells me I am "A sexist prick who holds women back from being good moms!!!11!", needless to say, security kicked her out and I think they "helped" her cause because they were both guys. Call this coincidence but I ran into one of the security guys about 2 months later and he said that, "Well thanks that that "incident", we had to hire more women at the work place."

Femenism? Fine. Sexism? Men are subject to it too ladies!

Lol.

I love how you present `We have to hire more women` like its a terrible thing.
Also, you just have that dudes word for it, I sincerely doubt that ONE incident of a woman acting irrationally made a difference.

Surely you aren't saying that an entire group of people must be ignorant on a subject just because of the fact that some in the group are, are you?

I'm pretty sure that'd be called bigotry.

And by extension, hypocrisy.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying.
Did I say they must be ignorant?
Nope. I said in general the gaming community doesn't have the best attitude towards gender politics.
Don't get me wrong (though you clearly have), there are feminist gamers, there are great gamers, but thats not the general gamer. There are still huge problems in this community.

But if having experience of being sworn at and threatened by gamers makes me a bigot, I guess so be it?

 

[Terminate421]

I don't mind equal rights for either sex, I am a guy, but its just a personal thing.

I once actually went shopping to get my little brother a birthday gift at a toys R Us, I ended up getting the last one, as I made my way to the checkout line, some women breaks down in fronts of me and tells me I am "A sexist prick who holds women back from being good moms!!!11!", needless to say, security kicked her out and I think they "helped" her cause because they were both guys. Call this coincidence but I ran into one of the security guys about 2 months later and he said that, "Well thanks that that "incident", we had to hire more women at the work place."

Femenism? Fine. Sexism? Men are subject to it too ladies!

Lol.

I love how you present `We have to hire more women` like its a terrible thing.
Also, you just have that dudes word for it, I sincerely doubt that ONE incident of a woman acting irrationally made a difference.

Actually it wasn't meant to be a bad thing (from me at least), but I would assume that the lady contacted her friends and they threatened the not shop from the store. I have no idea what took place but company policy in most companies usually demands diversity both Physically and Sexually in the work environment. All I know is that they did "have" to hire more women.

Besides, she was a *****, not much I could do about that.

 

[Flight]

Whenever I hear the word "feminazi," I roll my eyes at the person in question. Frankly, that's the point where I stop listening to them. I'm sure there are other ways to call out extremists of the feminist movement without using such a "shock value" term.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

He just provided an exact example of someone who got called a feminazi who isn't an extremist.

Thank you. given the response I thought that portion of my post was invisible or something.

Its a stupid term, especially considering the people accused of it are often not extremists at all. Its just a silencing term, call her a feminazi and maybe she will shut up and we can carry on doing sexist things!

And yes, this is the problem. This is how it's used. Nobody wants to be accused of fantaticism (well, almost nobody), and nobody wants to be equated with Nazis (well, almost nobody). It's a "shut the fuck up" argument because you're equating a whole movement (feminism) with something horrible and fanatic.

And even "better" if you combine it with other words like "slut" (defined in the right-wing vernacular as any woman who ever has any sex at all).

again, which happened in the very real, very current example I gave.

Again, THANK YOU.

Read my response to your post again and try to understand it.


The term is being misused when applied to non-fanatics and when it's used as a "shut up you annoying woman" term. It is not the proper meaning of the term. Just because A term is being habitually misused it doesn't mean that the term is faulty, it's the people's fault.


Don't try and change the language, they'll just find a new term to use which will do the same thing, if you ban that too then another will pop up, it'll never leave if you hold your current attitude and try and persecute people's expression of annoyance at feminism. You're only cutting the heads of the hydra here when you need to cauterize the wound, you need smarts, not force.


What you should do is change people's minds, not their vernacular.

 

[ZeroMachine]

I don't mind equal rights for either sex, I am a guy, but its just a personal thing.

I once actually went shopping to get my little brother a birthday gift at a toys R Us, I ended up getting the last one, as I made my way to the checkout line, some women breaks down in fronts of me and tells me I am "A sexist prick who holds women back from being good moms!!!11!", needless to say, security kicked her out and I think they "helped" her cause because they were both guys. Call this coincidence but I ran into one of the security guys about 2 months later and he said that, "Well thanks that that "incident", we had to hire more women at the work place."

Femenism? Fine. Sexism? Men are subject to it too ladies!

Lol.

I love how you present `We have to hire more women` like its a terrible thing.
Also, you just have that dudes word for it, I sincerely doubt that ONE incident of a woman acting irrationally made a difference.

Surely you aren't saying that an entire group of people must be ignorant on a subject just because of the fact that some in the group are, are you?

I'm pretty sure that'd be called bigotry.

And by extension, hypocrisy.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying.
Did I say they must be ignorant?
Nope. I said in general the gaming community doesn't have the best attitude towards gender politics.
Don't get me wrong (though you clearly have), there are feminist gamers, there are great gamers, but thats not the general gamer. There are still huge problems in this community.

But if having experience of being sworn at and threatened by gamers makes me a bigot, I guess so be it?

What is with you and the other person twisting what everyone says to make them sound worse?

That's not what makes you a bigot.

Saying we shouldn't have a discussion on a forum because they're based around a certain group is what makes you a bigot.

Those guys that gave you shit for simply being female should be banned from whatever game/service/forum/etc. they gave you shit on (in fact, that may be possible if you pursued it). It's understandable that after an experience like that you'd be apprehensive. But if you let apprehension turn into "we shouldn't bother trying to discuss this with ANYONE that plays video games because of what I've dealt with", it becomes bigotry. Do you see my point?

 

[manic_depressive13]

First of all, Studying law, and even if there isn't a prosecution the man still gets pulled through the judicial system and treated like a rapist. 'I didn't know she was drunk' isn't a defence in a rape case. Yes the guy can say no, but are you trying to suggest that every[/I] time someone goes into a club they have to say no to any advances (regardless of which gender the person in this scenario is) for fear of reprehension? That's naive.

As far as I'm concerned anyone who considers clubbing to be an enjoyable way to spend time ought to be imprisoned.

Are you telling me that "I believed she was giving reasoned consent" isn't a defence in a rape trial? As far as I'm aware that's the only defence.

You could say that about a lot of things - 'The woman doesn't need to apply for a job where she'll get less money than a man'...or...'A woman doesn't[/I] need to drive' Hell I cant even think of another example, and the latter certainly a joke nowadays.

I don't really get your point here. There are many circumstances when it is absolutely necessary for a woman to do both these things. I can't imagine a circumstance when it is essential to have sex with an intoxicated person. I hope I have misinterpreted this due to the fragmented nature of your post, but if this is actually the parallel you are trying to draw I feel a bit embarrassed for you.

 

[Something Amyss]

Holy strawman arguments, Batman!

Oooh, this should be fun.

Because the word "******" and the word "feminazi" are comparable and both have long histories of use in a bigoted manner, correct?

"Feminazi" was coined specifically to be an offensive and bigoted term.

Beyond that, you're trying to artificially distinguish, because length of time doesn't matter. It's not a strawman, it's you attempting to split hairs.

But good job at attempting to distract from the core of "anecdotes are not evidence." A shame I didn't fall for it.

And I can't even think of clever way to call your comparison to drunk driving out for being ridiculous because it's just that ridiculous.

It's "ridiculous" only because you can't counter it. It demonstrates flawlessly the lack fo value of personal anecdotes, and since that was the core of your argument, you have nothing. So instead, you're trying to flip it around on me.

Listen, I read what you said about where the word originated from, but the way it's used has changed. Yes, that's a legitimate argument.

No it's not, and I gave a very real world example. Hell, let's further that example: the primary users are Rush Limbaugh and Rush Limbaugh's followers. Obviously, the meaning hasn't changed.

And just because some dumbass politician uses it in the, yes, negative and bigoted manner in which it was originally used, does NOT mean that's the way the general public sees the word.

Ummm...He's not a politician. He's also the guy who coined the phrase. And one of the big users. Sorry, your argument just fell flat.

He was using it as a word to try and spin things against an opponent in a political debate. It was terrible, disgusting, chauvinistic, and he should be reprimanded.

Try and know what you're talking about next time. But thankfully, he's being reprimanded anyway. Oh wait, he's not. While there's some outrage, he won't be punished. And instead, people are echoing him and calling he a Feminazi. It's almost like your argument is invalid or something. But you might have known that if you did even cursory research.

But the VAST majority of people, including a ton of feminists, use the term to describe extremist women who believe that men in general and women who use makeup are lesser beings who want to control women and make sure they're never seen as equals in society.

Bull.

I understand if you're heard it in the negative connotation that it'd be difficult to get over that, but look around. MAYBE my experience is the happy minority, but I feel like you'll see it's usually used to describe people whose ramblings actually send gender equality back a few decades.

"Look around! Sure, I might be in the minority, and SURE, you can and have provided alternate examples, but dammit, that's inconvenient to my argument!"

It isn't a comparison, nobody is saying they're Nazis by calling them feminazis. What people are doing by calling them that is saying that they're fanatical. It isn't an ideological link, it's an attitude link.

Despite the above poster's complaints, it is very commonly used as a broadbrush way of attacking feminists in general. Sorry.

And while it may seem "obvious" to you, it "obviously" isn't "obvious" to a lot of people, since they're using the word you're saying people don't use "that way" in exactly "that way."

 

[xPixelatedx]

Feminists aren't anything like nazis.

This might enlightening you a bit:

You are looking at this way to literal. Nazi, aside from the organization, is also an umbrella term used to describe draconian behavior (something Nazis were known for). Of course the guy who served soup on Seinfeld wasn't an actual Nazi, it just sounds better to say 'soup nazi' then 'draconian soup giver'. Most intelligent people can make the distinction of the slang term Nazi and the actual Nazi's.

And be aware, I am not saying feminists are draconian. Feminazies however, eh...

 

[Phasmal]

Those guys that gave you shit for simply being female should be banned from whatever game/service/forum/etc. they gave you shit on (in fact, that may be possible if you pursued it). It's understandable that after an experience like that you'd be apprehensive. But if you let apprehension turn into "we shouldn't bother trying to discuss this with ANYONE that plays video games because of what I've dealt with", it becomes bigotry. Do you see my point?

Sort of.
(And I have reported people for sexism before, as far as I know, nothing happened).
I'm not saying I wouldn't discuss feminism and gender issues with gamers, I would, on a one-to-one basis. But with the whole boys club thing that this community has, its easy to get your voice drowned out by people who dont care, or misunderstand feminism at the very basic level. These threads generally just turn into shit-slinging at straw-feminists.
I believe any decent person, male or female, should be a feminist (in the orignal meaning, of wanting men and women to be equal).

 

[TheIronRuler]

If connected to any other ideology, I would call Feminism Bolshevism, Communism or socialism. It strives for equality and removing the male's advantage in society, something which was one of the aims for a society that strives for equality.

 

[Something Amyss]

It is not the proper meaning of the term.

Actually, it is. You're using a term coined by Rush Limbaugh that was used them to compare feminists to Nazis and still is today.

So please, don't YOU try and change the term. That was too funny.

The other funny thing, aside from you trying to change the meaning of a word and complaining about me trying to change it, is we otherwise seem to disagree about nothing, since your rant was more or less preaching to the choir. Still, the lack of self-awareness is just too good to not point out.

If anyone's co-opting the term, it is NOT the people who coined the term to slur feminists. That's EXACTLY what it's supposed to mean, from the mouths of its originators.

And if you want to use it in another fashion, feel free. Just keep in mind that when you say "Feminazi," it's commonly equated with feminists. As was the exact intention. Don't complain if people "misuse" it since you are yourself.

Additionally, the post you got huffy about had little to nothing to do with you anymore. But thanks for pointing yourself out to me again. Your last rant on the same subject didn't make it to my inbox for some reason, and I would have otherwise missed this "that's not what it means!" Bull.

 

[Guffe]

I'm a guy and I'd say I'm a "feminist".
I think everyone should be equal no matter what gender, race, wokr place etc, and have the same wages no matter of this (in said work place, not that everyone has the same wage... but that's another battle).
But the ultra feminists go on about "fire-man" being an inapropriate term due to it having "man" in the term. And that's just some sickos' having something to whine about, that, I do not support. It's just crazy to go that far!