There are a few outright man-hating fringe factions, yes, but most movements will have something like that (think of it as Martin Luther King Jr. vs. Malcolm X).
Otherwise, I think claims of it going too far come from the same depths of 50's nostalgia vision and bad evo-psych as The Spearhead.
ok then...I know of one story where a bunch of woman wanted to do a nude calender shot, but the local feminist group stop them from doing it because they said that it was sexist and degrading. And also that in the 1960's thay called playboy empowering and now they call in sexist.
It's the grand irony. The thing that Feminazi's (and everyone really) have to realize is that the best, and only true, way to empower women is to give them the freedom of choice. A woman should be allowed to be a model (nude or otherwise) or a housewife if she wants, without stigma, the same way she should be allowed to be a corporate exec if she wants.
Most modern day feminists don't realize that. They think that all women should be do it yourself ball-breakers. For women who want that, great, but don't try to insist that all women need to do or want the same things out of life.
Thank you, this sums up my feeling quite well (though if I said it out loud I would probably get maced by someone, a medival mace)
But yes they should really calm down. One memorable moment is when I held a door open for one woman and she repayed that now with a 'thanks' or anything, but lecture on how women can do things on their own and im a chauvinist pig for trying to hold her back.
I'll just throw it in here... around here men are enlisted to the army automatically once they hit 18, women are only enlisted for half the duration if at all, yet nobody is screaming off the rooftops about inequality. Now i'm not saying that all women should go through the army but there is definite hypocrisy about this matter. Also even those women who serve in the same units as men get better conditions on the expense of their male counterparts, they all like to talk about equality and feminism in their free time but when its time to carry the bags they look for a bunch of guys to carry them.
... oh... kay? Can we get something resembling an example please? As fun as it is to speak in utterly broad and generic terms, the throwing of a bone would be appreciated.
hittite said:
Basically the same as the OP. I'll admit that there's still a degree of residual, unthinking sexism, but the only real way to remove it would either be to reverse the bias, which is hypocritical and (speaking as someone in possession of a Y chromosome) sucks; or to insist on a level of political correctness which is, quite frankly, insane.
... Well, unlike racism, its somewhat impossible to not be sexist. Attempts to imprint definitions of sex/gender begin practically from birth. Seperate bathrooms, separate classes (sometimes), different clothes, different color schemes. Until we hit 2-3, we're almost completely sexless lumps of flesh, and parents will still menstruate bows and pastels all over "girls" and ejaculate dirt and manly colors all over boys. (hoping to be as disgusting as possible here)
You can go your entire life without a definition of "race," but people typically have definitions of gender before they can walk.
Feminism was hijacked a long time ago. While I'm all for equal pay for equal work, they want to be treated as more equal at some times.
Look at the current problem with the NY Jets locker room scandal, where Ines Sainz was "sexually harassed" by players. A little back story... Ines Sainz is a GORGEOUS woman. I mean... HOT DAMN! She is a former Miss Spain, and is pegged as the "Hottest reporter for TV Azteca."
But now we have a problem. Because of certain "sensitivity" rules, female reporters are allowed into men's locker rooms. Which I think is completely wrong... because they won't let me into a woman's locker room, even if I was a reporter. She received a number of catcalls, and whistles, and such, and even told another woman reporter in the locker room that she wasn't offended or threatened by it at all.
Now we have an issue. Sexual Harassment is one of the only crimes in the world (and the only one I can quickly think of off the top of my head) where the victim decides whether or not the offending actions constitutes a crime. Something may be said and be fine one day, but the next day be remembered as harassment. She didn't feel harassed until another female reporter told her she was being harassed. After that is when the proverbial shit hit the fan.
Also, Clinton Portis should have not said what he did in such a crude manner, but I digress. So she dresses as hot as she normally does, and is in a locker room where guys are still on the endorphin and adrenaline high, and what happens when guys who are in a great mood see a beautiful woman who is dressed sexy? Well, they act stupid.
Here's another problem. If a woman dresses sexy for attention, then doesn't like the attention she receives, should the man be blamed for harassment? If a woman gets a boob job and wears low cut shirts, can she really be offended when a man doesn't look her in the eyes 24/7? Men are sexually turned on by visual things, and when there is a stunningly sexual sight that is INTENDED to be visibly sexual, can they be blamed for having a natural reaction? Feminists say that they can, should, and will be.
In summary: Equal means equal. I think in the more modern countries, women are equals now, but the annoying thing is that they keep pushing for more rights. They've become equal. What more do they want?
Yeah, they get on average paid less than men for the same work.
They're more likely to be assaulted, infinitely more likely to be raped, and more likely to be killed.
They're encouraged to be sexually repressed, because if you're sexual you're a slut. They're encouraged to be quiet around others because being outspoken is bitchy.
Femininity itself is associated with being vapid (like duh), shallow (all girls think about is shoes!), meek (save me, manly mansome!) and submissive.
Think about it for a moment. When was the last time you seen a woman start one of these 'has feminism gone too far?!' threads? Yeah, because it is almost always guys saying WOMEN ARE TRYING TO BE SUPERIOR NOW.
Thank you, this sums up my feeling quite well (though if I said it out loud I would probably get maced by someone, a medival mace)
But yes they should really calm down. One memorable moment is when I held a door open for one woman and she repayed that now with a 'thanks' or anything, but lecture on how women can do things on their own and im a chauvinist pig for trying to hold her back.
This happened to me, and I didn't hold the door for her later. And got yelled at for not holding the door, and a lecture on chivalry being dead.
I can't win!
Apparently, men need to exercise their telepathetic/telepathic abilities. Or hide in a box.
Same with me, I've probably held the door open for as many guys as women in my life. If all it takes is standing still a couple seconds after going through the door yourself why not? The only preference I give for holding doors open is people holding a shit load of stuff, or elderly people as they've opened enough god damn doors for on lifetime.
All I've seen feminism accomplish in the last decade or two is make me think feminists have too much time on their hands and not enough intelligence to attempt lecturing people.
ok then...I know of one story where a bunch of woman wanted to do a nude calender shot, but the local feminist group stop them from doing it because they said that it was sexist and degrading. And also that in the 1960's thay called playboy empowering and now they call in sexist.
Okay, but that sounds like it's on a local scale. Soccer moms overreact every now and then too, but it doesn't represent the majority. And as said previously in the thread by other posters, 50's pornography standards, and modern standards, pornography or not, are very different too.
Anyway, not relating to the quote, I just don't get why people confuse a woman who just has a personal hatred of men and superiority complex, with feminists as a whole. "She hates men. Feminists are all assholes." No, it doesn't work that way for any group.
In summary: Equal means equal. I think in the more modern countries, women are equals now, but the annoying thing is that they keep pushing for more rights. They've become equal. What more do they want?
Yeah, they get on average paid less than men for the same work.
They're more likely to be assaulted, infinitely more likely to be raped, and more likely to be killed.
They're encouraged to be sexually repressed, because if you're sexual you're a slut. They're encouraged to be quiet around others because being outspoken is bitchy.
Femininity itself is associated with being vapid (like duh), shallow (all girls think about is shoes!), meek (save me, manly mansome!) and submissive.
Think about it for a moment. When was the last time you seen a woman start one of these 'has feminism gone too far?!' threads? Yeah, because it is almost always guys saying WOMEN ARE TRYING TO BE SUPERIOR NOW.
See, that's what I meant earlier. There's so many bloody inequalities that should be fought against, but there's a very small few vocal nutjob women who call themselves feminist and make every other decent feminist look bad. What's worse is people actually put all feminists under one label and just say "yeah, them crazy bitches, everything is fine."
I think it's funny how we're so quick to judge feminists as a group, when we're gamers. We get this shit all the time.
You realize this is mostly a women on women thing, right? It's the same thing as women being opposed to things like playboy and what not. It's mostly women calling each other out on these things.
Other than that I agree for the most part. The overarching issue is that there are factions in the feminist movement that are more restrictive about what women can and cannot do than men are.
Also, feminists in the 1960s aren't the same feminists that exist now.
See, the whole 'is it sexist or isn't it' in terms of playboy and other forms of porn (whether soft or hardcore) is the line between being unashamed of your sexuality, and being exploited because of your sexuality. Is doing a nude photoshoot just selling yourself out for male titilation, or is it a bold statement of a lack of shame over the body? At the time, softcore porn mags were a new thing, so it was ambiguous just which of the two it was. Now it's fairly obvious. You're not making any sort of bold statement if you're in playboy - accordingly, opinion has shifted. See?
On the flipside, depending on your public image, posing could be a big political step and means of greater exposure (not a pun). Not to mention Hef really forks out when he has to.
Istvan said:
Women are still discriminated against by the army here. Army only conscripts men, which is very sexist, so no, I don't think it's gone far enough.
What's that? Feminisist are strangely quiet on this issue? Blimey.
Physical professions will always be dominated by men. Shout about inequality but physically men and women are not equal. This fact is not chauvinist, sexist or in anyway a means of keeping women down, it's the way we are built... from day one.
Feminism plays a significant part of society. Speaking as a middle class white male, I can speak from a point of advantage and admit that there is still a lot of inequality that needs to be dealt with. And if nothing else feminism stands to ensure that anti-discrimination laws are upheld and there is a second side to a moral, legal or ethical debate.
Feminists are fine. Radical feminists, who I like to call "Feminazis", are not. They are pretty awful people, about on par with white supremacists in their ignorance and hatred of the world around them. One good example is that totally whacked-out ***** who wrote a mind-meltingly idiotic "review" of Firefly, in which she insisted that Wash regularly rapes Zoe and that Joss Whedon rapes his own wife, among many other awful things.
Here it is, in all it's revolting glory. (I found it again just now by googling "crazy feminist ***** Firefly review") http://users.livejournal.com/_allecto_/34718.html
Reading it certainly inspired hatred in me--hatred of this woman.
I know not all feminists are like this pathetic piece of shit, but it pains me to read all the comments supporting her dementia.
You realize this is mostly a women on women thing, right? It's the same thing as women being opposed to things like playboy and what not. It's mostly women calling each other out on these things.
Other than that I agree for the most part. The overarching issue is that there are factions in the feminist movement that are more restrictive about what women can and cannot do than men are.
Women can be sexist too, and do not get a free pass on being called on it just because they're women. If that's the case, feminism hasn't gone far enough because there are still some women who hold themselves and others to an unreasonable, illogical double standard that says they should be ashamed of their body and their sexuality. Remember, historically, some of the biggest supporters of maintaining a slave class were the slaves themselves - they were still wrong.
Also, there's a lot of guys pushing their own sexuality onto women at completely inappropriate moments. The amount of times I've had creepy old guys coming up to me and freaking me out with their shit is insane. And don't you dare go outside without a big shit eating grin on your face or it's GIVE US A SMILE, LOVE!
.
Well yes, apparently women have more rights than men now.
Hitting a women is sexual assault. Being hit by one gets you labeled as a wuss. Either way, men lose.
Offering to help a woman do something she is struggling with means you're looking down on her. Not offering to help means you're an ill-mannered brat. Either way, men lose.
There is one thing that I find amusing. I've heard women making speeches about their suppressed rights. And I say ... give them all the rights, and the exact same rights as all the men. Heck, why bother to differentiate between men and women at all. Lets have ALL politics, ALL offices, ALL jobs, ALL sports equal for men and women everywhere. There is nothing women can't do that men can.
Personally, I'd like to see them playing American football, rugby and wrestling with the guys ^_^
Well, Hey .... you wanted to be treated as exact equals!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
