Feminism: has it gone to far?

[derelict]

This topic could easily be expanded to include hundreds of instances of similar treatment or prejudice. Just label it the "human beings generally take miles when given inches" thread.

Just to name a few:
Feminism ('course)
Black Pride
White Pride
Nazi Eugenics (try not to bring up Godwin's Law-- whoops, just did!)
AZN Pride
Mexican Pride

...I suspect I could keep going, but the gist is people think they're special and entitled to things because they're special. Feminism is just a tiny part of the brain cancer that is entitlement.

Getting back onto topic, if I could change one thing: I'd like to be able to give women innocuous compliments without them looking at me like I'm some kind of child molester. I miss the days when I could tell a girl she looked fantastic in that dress without having to be guilt-tripped.

Speaking of dresses, women: wear more, and wear more skirts. They're clothes made just for you, and you look great in them, but for some reason you also consider them sexually demoralizing? Going to be an amusing day when someone points out that same logic wouldn't work too well on things like bras.

 

[Dark Knifer]

Yes, if you would still call what today's feminists are like to the actual feminist of the 1960's. Those feminists had a very resonable cause since they were actual discriminated against then. I can respect that, but not the ones that are around now. We have allready achieved equality in the western world, but feminists just keep going on about how badly their treated and how all men are self-absorbed pricks. Just goes to show that people absolutely love to hate.

Incidently, why do none of these feminists take about the inequallity of women in middle eastern sort of countries?

 

[ENKC]

A desire for equality is all well and good, but 'militant' feminism has more to do with hating men than acting constructively for the status of women. As with any form of inequality, you can only effectively counteract it by raising one side, not by dragging the other down.

 

[Krantos]

Other than that I agree for the most part. The overarching issue is that there are factions in the feminist movement that are more restrictive about what women can and cannot do than men are.

Women can be sexist too, and do not get a free pass on being called on it just because they're women. If that's the case, feminism hasn't gone far enough because there are still some women who hold themselves and others to an unreasonable, illogical double standard that says they should be ashamed of their body and their sexuality. Remember, historically, some of the biggest supporters of maintaining a slave class were the slaves themselves - they were still wrong.

You misunderstood me. Women who want other women to all be housewives: Bad, yes, we agree on that.

The point I was trying to make is that women who want other women to all be corporate executives: Also bad.

Swapping one role out for another is not progress. True progress is making it so that a woman can be a housewife or a business executive (or a nude model) and no one cares which one she chooses. Why is that progress? Because it's her choice, no one else's, and it effects only her.

And as for women wanting more respect? The saying I've always liked is "Respect cannot be given or demanded, it must be earned." Sure there will always be those who will never respect you, but guys deal with people like that too. Be respectable and respectful (however, those manifest in your particular sphere) and the ones who matter will respect you.

 

[Booze Zombie]

It's the grand irony. The thing that Feminazi's (and everyone really) have to realize is that the best, and only true, way to empower women is to give them the freedom of choice. A woman should be allowed to be a model (nude or otherwise) or a housewife if she wants, without stigma, the same way she should be allowed to be a corporate exec if she wants.

Most modern day feminists don't realize that. They think that all women should be do it yourself ball-breakers. For women who want that, great, but don't try to insist that all women need to do or want the same things out of life.

It's funny, you know... I always imagine a meeting between a Feminazi and a prostitute in my head whenever this sort of thing comes up.

"You're being exploited!"

"Uh, ain't I the one exploiting their sexual desperation/cravings for financial gain?"

"Well, uh..."

 

[DJDarque]

if people are pro female superiority, and they call themselves feminists, they are fucking idiots
If they want female superiority, they should call themselves sexists.
Theres a HUGE difference for fucks sake

Don't call out feminists cause of these fuckfaces, just cause they say they are feminists doesn't mean they are.

I was thinking the same thing.

On topic discussion: It's sad to see how people will take these very fairly unrelated ideas and lump them all together: feminism, sexism (by females), misandry, elitism and people in general just being hypocrites and wrap them into one package and call it feminism. These are all quite different from each other, but many people just seem to ignore that. Each of these things are seperate topics with different goals and issues.

Saying feminism (just talking about the idea, not the overgeneralization) goes too far is a very ignorant and negative thing to say. A woman wanting to be treated like a human being, just like men, instead of an object is not going too far.

 

[Radelaide]

Feminism hasn't existed since the 80s.

Not True Feminism anyway, now its about female Superiority, instead of equality.

This.

Honestly, I'm okay with the fact that there are differences between males and females. Because these days, there isn't much to change. I mean, WAGE equality would be nice, but I don't want to be expected to go out and do manly things (other than look at boobs and stuff, 'cause they're awesome) like get dirty and stuff. I'm far too pretty for that.

Feminism these days is more about trying to prove that women are better than men and it's simply not true. Men and women have their positives and negatives, that that's what truly makes us equal.

 

[Pegghead]

While I think that raging feminism is annoying and agressively unnecessary noone can say that males and females get everything 100% equally. In this day and age there are still traditional gender roles upheld (Tell me all you want about your openly sexual artist friend who doesn't wanna get tied down with kids and marriage but they're in the minority and normally frowned upon), cases of sexual discrimination and assault, exploitation and most commonly inequal representation in most fiction so there's still quite a bit to be done, but raging on about the "Glorious vagina" or whatever those hotheads chant is just setting the cause back.

 

[RelexCryo]

Ok...I don't want to start a war..or get shouted at...but I really think that feminism has gone a bit to far. I mean that I think that the feminists have done what they set out to do and now they are just trying to make them selves better then men.

Tell me what you think of feminism...and please don't flame me. Please?

Oi. Some feminists are bigoted against men, some aren't. Some want equality, some really do want superiority. The key thing to remember is that feminists are not a hive mind, but rather a collection of individuals.

Julie Bindel wanted to do away with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, and have any man accused of crimes against a woman considered guilty until proven innocent. She said she was disgusted with a criminal system that seemed more inclined to protect men accused of rape than prosecute them. She either forgot that innocent until proven guilty is supposed to be applied to all crimes, or she didn't care.

Gloria Steinem claimed that 3/4 of all women are raped by the age of 20. Her basis for this was a survey in which 3/4 of women surveyed at age 20 claimed that they had a sexual encounter they regretted. When it was pointed out that regret and a lack of consent are not the same thing, she stated that she defined rape by a feeling of regret. Oddly enough, when a man feels regret about having sex with a woman, she does not consider the woman to have raped the man. Also odd, she did not consider accusing the majority of the men on the planet of being rapists to be bigoted.

There are women who are bigoted against men, but not all women who fight for women's suffrage (and many women are still oppressed in many parts of the world) are bigoted against men. That said, complaining about giant boobs in comics and video games is an act of discrimination against men. Heroes/Heroines are supposed to be smart, powerful and sexy. Automatically assuming we see women as being just sex objects simply because they are sexy is leaping to the worst possible assumption for our perspective. This false dichotomy that women can either be sexy posessions or non-sexy equals just needs to die. If male heroes can be powerful, competent, and sexy, so should female heroines.

You should not assume that we see women as just sex objects simply because the heroine is sexy.

 

[DementedSheep]

Some of them yeah, but there are extremists with everything. Feminism is no exception. Some are good and want equality. Some are bigots and consider woman superior to men.

Although I really don't like ultra feminists. It just creates more sexism against woman. Women = men is good (not literally of course lol). Women > men is bad. Yes there is still allot of sexism against woman but there is allot of sexism against men too but for some reason people ignore that. I don't get the woman who get up in arms about it. Sexism now days (at least in most developed countries) is not institutionalised, its personal opinion and you can't really do much about that. If you want to change people's opinion then we as women just have to step up and show the people who are sexist that they are wrong thru our success. And if that dosn't work then too bad, other people can think what they like. Yelling about just make you look like a dick.

I especially don't like the ones who scream "rape" all the time (you really shouldn't use the term rape to describe anything other than rape), make a fuss if a program shows a bit of tit or if a woman actually looks sexy. Just because someone is sexy doesn?t mean they are a sex object. Think that all guys see any woman who looks sexy as sex objects is sexist against guys. Like how someone was going on about Alex Vance being a sex object because she has "tight jeans". Really what do they have to do to not be accused of being a sex object? Should all female characters wear incredibly baggy clothes or be so ugly that they aren?t recognisable as female? Or maybe they should just not put woman in at all...oh wait that?s sexist too apparently.

And then there are the ones who seem to have something against anyone who openly seems to enjoy sex or think that a woman can't enjoy it. If I have sex with a guy I'm not being "used", at least no more than how I'm using the guy. I am aloud to enjoy sex thank you very much and I don't like being told how I should feel. Also porn stars, prostitutes are not being "exploited" if they chose that profession (and allot of them do). Part of everyone?s rights should be the freedom to choose how we live our own lives (provided you?re not harming others obviously). Don't try and put your values on me.

Also I think people need to come to terms with the fact that woman and men are not the same. Both woman and men have their strengths but men are physically stronger than woman. You may not have to like it but that's just the way it is. I'm not saying that a women shouldn't be able to do physical jobs. If she can do it, the why the hell not? but you have to realise that we are at a disadvantage and that we don't deserve special treatment because of it. Like for instance the army. I don't agree with them lowering the requirements for woman, if special treatment is what you want then it's not equality. The requirements are there for a reason, ihe fact that there are fewer women in the army than men is not due to sexism (tho I'm certainly not saying there is no sexism among individuals in the army but it.s not institutionalised). Less woman want to join the army and less get in. Simple.

I have a cousin who keeps going on about how the army is so sexist because there are no women in the NZ SAS. That's because none have made it in yet. The SAS is the top and woman are naturally weaker physically than men. So the girls at the top aren't likely to be as good as the guys on top, thats just how things are in reality. Also there are fewer women in the army and going for the SAS in the first place. Someone will probably get in eventually but it's not sexism keeping them out. To me it seems more sexist if they lowered the requirements just so they could have some token woman in the SAS.

On a side note: allot of Muslim woman actually want to wear the burqa, it's not necessarily them being "oppressed". Especially when in a country that doesn't have wearing the burqa a law. I know some woman who converted to the religion and wear it of their own free will because they agree with it. Not because they feel they have too. Ever read the story about the monkey and the fish? Same thing applies here. We should avoid projecting how we would feel and what we would want on another person. Especially when we know nothing about them.

Anyway I went off topic sorry.

 

[Wintermoot]

some of it has gone too far I get stuff like voting rights but I someimnes feminism wants woman to be more equal than men

 

[RelexCryo]

Its funny, because nearly all pro feminist arguments I hear today are about freedom, when they wish to repress the freedom of other women because it goes against their cause.

I say fuck feminism and fuck manism and let everyone be assholes to each other. THEN we get equality.

Quote me one person who's advocating censorship or taking away freedoms of others in this thread in the name of feminism. ONE.

In fact, I'd just love it if some of these folks giving these examples of crazy rampant feminism run wild and oppressing the mans of the world can start citing some fucking sources, because a lot o these stories sound like the same old bullshit attempts to de-legitimize feminism.

A questionable story I heard earlier in this thread: A woman giving you shit for holding the door open for her (in the name of feminism), and then giving you shit later for not holding the door open for her (in the name of chivalry)? Hmm, smells like bullshit. Either that or congrats, you've ran into the one truly crazy person to do this, and now you have a fun story to tell when talking about your feminazi's taking over.

Julie Bindel wanted to do away with the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing, and have any man accused of crimes against a woman considered guilty until proven innocent. She said she was disgusted with a criminal system that seemed more inclined to protect men accused of rape than prosecute them. She either forgot that innocent until proven guilty is supposed to be applied to all crimes, or she didn't care.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julie_Bindel


During her time at the Guardian Bindel has begun to write more on issues about rape, such as drug rape and date rape.[66][67][68][69][70] She is critical of how difficult life is made for women who report rape, how the investigative and legal process ends up with women being dealt with more like the offender than the victim in an environment where some appear to think it is more important to safeguard the rights of men who might be accused maliciously than women who are victims.
- Wikipedia

She literally titled one of her essays, "Why I hate Men." Not men who do a specific action, but men period.


Gloria Steinem claimed that 3/4 of all women are raped by the age of 20. Her basis for this was a survey in which 3/4 of women surveyed at age 20 claimed that they had a sexual encounter they regretted. When it was pointed out that regret and a lack of consent are not the same thing, she stated that she defined rape by a feeling of regret. Oddly enough, when a man feels regret about having sex with a woman, she does not consider the woman to have raped the man. Also odd, she did not consider accusing the majority of the men on the planet of being rapists to be bigoted.

My source for this is "The Politically Incorrect Guide to Women, Sex, and Feminism."
By Carrie L. Lucas

http://www.amazon.com/Politically-Incorrect-Guide-Women-Feminism/dp/1596980036/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284794416&sr=8-1

 

[Rack]

Like anything there are some people who go too far and some people who have a legitimate point. I'm worried that the abuse of statistics is leading people astray on this one though. For example men get paid more than women in similar roles. But then there are behaviour patterns that make this necessary for companies, men move jobs often and are persistant in salary negotiations. I don't fo any of this and am paid significantly less than women with less experience doing the same job as myself. Yet I'm going to end up with a salary cut in order to pay for this "inequality". All the while women use this as an excuse to treat men like cash machines.

Does this make it wrong? Well maybe not but I find it difficult to believe it achieves anything. Within society men are commonly supplicant to women, perhapos it's still more so the other way around I can only see things from my perspective but I'm not at all convinced it's a relavant cause any more.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

I think that women should be treated evenly (with the pay differences and such) but many times feminism is taken way to far.

 

[biGBum333]

feminists are pretty much selfish, sexist, hypocritical bitchs, they have no moral high ground. and for this reason im proud to be a male chauvinistic pig

 

[notsosavagemessiah]

come to Australia, where men are second class citizens. I hear New Zealand has it worse though. And English women are all Hitler from what I can tell, though that's not a legal equality thing, that's just a land of screwed up personalities. I get the feeling that a lot of husband-beating goes on over there.

interestingly enough, i hear tell of australian women being beaten by their husbands regularly.