FFVII wasn't that good

[lordmardok]

So I actually liked Final Fantasy X and its runty offspring X-2. FFX has a beautiful landscape, a unique story, good characters that are actually believable. I do kind of hate Tidus but honestly it was kind of nice to not have a whiny, angst-machine (cloud/squall) as the main character and instead have a protagonist who is believably flawed.

FFX-2 had its share of problems with the weird jpop infusion and remaking some of the main characters outfits... I'm looking at you Riku... Anyways for all its wierdness and frankly strange design choices. It was good. Seriously. From the perspective of a writer and a storyteller, it was good. It had an interesting and unique storyline that echoed FFVII's Cloud/Zack relationship with Tidus being a strange mirror FFX2 antagonist Shuyin without copying it. It had a fun and inventive spin on the much loved Job System that the retro gamers like myself who fell in love with Final Fantasy V's amazing original system. Beyond that although many original FF lovers were appalled to see the memorable compositions of Nobuo Uematsu replaced with the synchronized beats of JPop, I have to admit that it fit the setting and new world of Spira that the FF team created. Not just because Yuna held the spirit of Lenne, a singer from ancient Zanarkand.

Now as much as I enjoyed VII... it wasn't very good...

I may get crucified for that statement but it was actually pretty mediocre as gameplay and story goes, it was blocky with an obtuse storyline that gets its' head stuck in a bucket of doo-lally around Clouds' psychotic acid dream sequence. I understood the storyline but it was badly presented. Really the only reason people like it is the characters; because it's the first 3-d FF and had powerful characterization.

Now I'm not saying it was bad. But honestly people the game wasn't the ultimate Final Fantasy like so many pretend it is, the story was good, but not great, the gameplay was ok, but had too many issues, and I'm not even going to go into the Summon's. Honestly for me the side-stories of the supporting characters like Barret and Red XIII were more interesting than the actual story of the game.

I wouldn't be too surprised if some of the people who profess to love FFVII over other games, only do so because it's cool to like it.

Although for the record: My favorite Final Fantasy game is and always will be Final Fantasy IX, Zidane was a unique and fun character who never gave up and always had a laugh for something. Garnet and her knight, Eiko and Frey. And Kuja. Damn but he was a good villain, he was sinister and powerful, and ultimately, human and frightened of dying.

That kind of epic story is what final fantasy is about to me.

 

[FalloutJack]

As a longtime player of games, I've learned to be more understanding and less critical of things IN those games. The things that make a game bad are the things that make ANY game bad, like certain parts not making as much sense, for a system that didn't work, for physics fails, and stuff like that. I'm not the kind of guy who gets irritable about graphics, music, or even as much about story, mostly. There are exceptions.

Now, you didn't mention anything about Final Fantasy 8. That's interesting. Maybe you have nothing to say about it or don't want to, but I have to say that if you REALLY want to name a not-great game out of the series? BAM. There's your target. However, I'm going to stop there about it because my rants on the subject are massive and are now only spoken of on demand. You can ask, but I'm getting back on topic now.

So, Final Fantasy 7 then... The first thing, of course, is that you have to adjust your lens of perspective to the time and the place. In order to fairly determine FF7's value, you have to think in terms of 1997, not 2011. Common mistake for people, I know. At this time, it was the great transition to Playstation, Sega Saturn, and so on. This was the beginning of a new generation. My understanding of Square was that they did the most of what they could manage with the new technology at the time, pure and simple. And wow, was that good...

FF7 was my introduction to video game RPGs, period. Not a bad start, if I say so myself. I'd say that it earned its repute, and that the sheer amount of people still wanting to see a remake are a testament to the popularity of that one game. From my perspective, I'd like to see that. I have played...most of the games, and alot of them are good. FF9 is good, as is FFX, and most of the SNES/NES-era ones. I also like FF13, so I'm pretty dynamic here. Sometimes, you just have to give the devil his due.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

I can't believe FF7 is still being simultaneously made out to be the Jesus and Satan of JRPG's to this day.

Personally, FF7 hasn't aged at all for me, despite me having played it since I was like 6 (literally). Or indeed any of the FF's. I suppose I was that easily impressed by the foreign approach to combat when I was too autistic to notice.

 

[Awexsome]

The character models are just too blocky to have aged well but the scenery for the game was on another level at the time. And getting immersed in the world isn't a nice little plus for and RPG it's a requirement to be good.

Heartily disagree that the story was good not great. It was great. Great enough to kickstart the love and popularity of the RPG during its time anyway. The story is still great today and it's my preferred gameplay over any FF. And saying it's popular to just like the game? This is the Escapist you know so the exact opposite applies. It's more popular than anything to bash on good, popular console stuff even if it was from a long time ago.

Yeah it's got its flaws but to bash it on graphics isn't a strong argument.

 

[AngelicSven]

I can't believe FF7 is still being simultaneously made out to be the Jesus and Satan of JRPG's to this day.

Pretty much this. Just let it go, it was good for the late 90's. It really doesn't ever need to be mentioned again, it created the general JRPG hero archetype, done. Let's move on.

I'm gonna respond to the post that probably made this topic, I never NEVER forgot about FF IX, that game was fucking fantastic. Excellent. Top two. Yes, I do like FF VII best. The point is, they were 15 years ago.

 

[RipperSU]

Now, you didn't mention anything about Final Fantasy 8. That's interesting. Maybe you have nothing to say about it or don't want to, but I have to say that if you REALLY want to name a not-great game out of the series? BAM. There's your target.

I found VIII to be the best in the series. It had the best storyline, in my opinion and the deepest game play.

 

[Vitum]

Hey, you have the right to your own opinion, by me, the order of the best Final Fantasy games goes as: FFX, FFVII and FFVIII (yeah I ain't gonna take that back), I'm honestly surprised how come you liked FFIX, but I ain't gonna argue with you, would I do disagree upon is FFX-2 being a good game, by my standards, it's below Indiana Jones 4, it's below the Star Wars prequels, to me it's an absolutely horrible game and mainly because of the script, say whatever you like about FFVIII, it had a very descent story-line, weirdest gameplay mechanic in the world, but the story betwen Squall and Rinoa is the best love story in Final Fantasy... okay it's a tie with Tidus and Yuna, but FFVIII still wins cuz it doesn't have a shitty sequel in which Rinoa becomes a stripper.

 

[Arsen]

Now, you didn't mention anything about Final Fantasy 8. That's interesting. Maybe you have nothing to say about it or don't want to, but I have to say that if you REALLY want to name a not-great game out of the series? BAM. There's your target.

I found VIII to be the best in the series. It had the best storyline, in my opinion and the deepest game play.

In retrospect, that game took the credibility of the series and threw it down the gutter. Gone were dark, harsh, cruel landscapes and epic stories of Final Fantasy. With that we salted the earth and grew the seeds from which FFX and forward sprouted.

To this day Tactics is still the best one. It's the "Song of Ice and Fire" of videogames.

 

[Arsen]

Those who dislike the game play it with modern eyes.

Here is what the game got right:

- Setting. Steampunk meets modern age, industrialized fantasy. The farther you got into the game...the landscapes were just out of this world.
- The magic system. Extremely creative, could be messed with, and was very customizable.
- The characters. Each one was different, diverse, and had an interesting backstory.
- The music. It rivals the majority of movie scores for sheer, epic beauty.
- The side quests. THESE made the game fun.
- The story. Former mercenary used in genetic experiment who becomes a super-solder now must slay his former, thought dead comrad, who apparently wants to end the world and become a god.
- Exploring the WORLD MAP. I will play another Final Fantasy when this features is returned.
- Getting the Highwind. One of the best feelings in a game I have ever received.
- Fighting the Weapons. Epic, sprawling battles.
- Gold Saucer games. Pure fun.

 

[Strain42]

I never NEVER forgot about FF IX, that game was fucking fantastic. Excellent.

I love you.

Seriously though, I think that VII is mainly as big as it is because of its legacy. It's sort of the same reason people still act like Sonic matters.

If it wasn't obvious from the guy I just quote, 9 is my personal favorite of the numbered ones in terms of characters, gameplay, overall world, music, etc. etc.

However...I have to give my nod for Best Story in a Final Fantasy game to Tactics.

 

[God's Clown]

Let's just all agree Final Fantasy 4, 5 and 6 are the three greatest Final Fantasy's ever. I am sure people put them in different order then me, but they are all super awesome and fun to play.

 

[FalloutJack]

Now, you didn't mention anything about Final Fantasy 8. That's interesting. Maybe you have nothing to say about it or don't want to, but I have to say that if you REALLY want to name a not-great game out of the series? BAM. There's your target.

I found VIII to be the best in the series. It had the best storyline, in my opinion and the deepest game play.

I just had an idea.

Instead of me going into my usual breakdown of what I feel about FF8, I think it's only fair that I ask you instead what went right. It sounds to me like you have a well-composed and thought-out opinion on the matter in reserve. Tell me about it. I won't even lay any of my arguments on the table afterwards. I just want to know what the other side of the debate thinks.

 

[FirstPersonWinner]

It's a game that was amazing when it was made. Nowadays it's one of those games that sucks unless you can remember the amazing-ness of when it was made. End Story.

 

[fluffybunny937]

I think that when judging; video games, movies, books, music, etc. when it came out has to be a factor. But FF7 is my favorite FF, but it is not my favorite video game of all time.

 

[commiedic]

Although for the record: My favorite Final Fantasy game is and always will be Final Fantasy IX, Zidane was a unique and fun character who never gave up and always had a laugh for something. Garnet and her knight, Eiko and Frey. And Kuja. Damn but he was a good villain, he was sinister and powerful, and ultimately, human and frightened of dying.

That kind of epic story is what final fantasy is about to me.

Hell yea. IX is my second favorite. Right below VIII. For me it goes VIII then IX then VII. Though I mean I grew up playing those and didn't have a lot of experience back when they were new and I was young to compare them to. Now I could probably see things your way if I go back and play them.

 

[Nieroshai]

You know, I can't reemember the last time I heard anyone call ff7 the best in the series. I only ever see forum threads and game critics going on and on about how it ISN'T. They're beating a dead horse, and so are you. You're telling us the earth is round like we didn't know, and we've known for a WHILE now. There are fanboys who think it's the best game ever, but even Daikatana has a few of those fans.

 

[RipperSU]

Instead of me going into my usual breakdown of what I feel about FF8, I think it's only fair that I ask you instead what went right.

In terms of story, there was a lot of stuff going on. In most FF games good and evil are like black and white, easily distinguishable. I felt VIII certainly had a grey area going on. You don't play a soldier or a knight, you play a mercenary. While most of your deeds are for the greater good, the corruption in Garden becomes more apparent as the game goes on. Foes like Edea are plain brainwashed, while Seifer and his friends fight out of a sense of loyalty and honour, not malevolence. Even the love story takes time to develop instead of feeling shoehorned into it and the flashback sequences always sat well with me and made a welcome change.

In terms of game play, the junction system just works for me. Being able to micromanage individual stats, spells, menu abilities, summons etc was a lot of fun and added much more tactical depth than most turn-based RPGs. Side stuff like the card game, finding hidden GF's and UFO hunt's were all fun and made sure I enjoyed every minute of the experience. The way the leveling system actually encourages the player to stay as low a level as possible is also really good. While it's a breeze to get to level 99 and spam guardian forces in every battle, the game will pull the rug from under you after around the half way point and make you regret that decision.

I'm not saying it's a perfect game though, Selphie is annoying as hell. That learning curve can be brutal for beginners and like most FF games, there are some translation issues. The ending isn't as great as it had the potential to be and the travel system is pretty poor until you receive the Ragnarok. That said, this is all my opinion, and I'm not much of an FF fan, I only really enjoyed IV, V, VI, VIII and IX. Although, I do need to play FF tactics.

 

[commiedic]

I just had an idea.

Waiting on rebuttal!