For all those who think Tommy Jordan is a great dad...

[Last Hugh Alive]

I firmly disagree with the decision to involve a gun in any way to the realm of "parenting" and the original video made him seem like an obnoxious, macho douchebag. He made the decision to shoot the laptop that he had paid for and then broadcast it on Youtube for the world to see. There's a lot of ways that can go wrong.

But I respect him a lot more after reading his response to the media. I disagree with the method, but he has a lot of values I agree with and seems like a very well-meaning person.

 

[GenericRPGNerd]

ok, i do think that in some circumstances he might be seen as slightly strict but thats just to do with the fact that he's pissed off, wouldn't you be mad if your daughter was talking shit about you and your wife?

to be fair i can see your point of view but i'm gonna have to dissagree with you because he got his point across and controlled the situation by putting it to an end.

obviously your opinion is still valid but you need to look at it from his point of view.

 

[Treeinthewoods]

It's already been pointed out several times now, but that list explains signs of an abusive marriage/adult relationship. I never do any of those things to my wife or treat her that way at all because she is not a child, you see. A healthy adult relationship is hinged on mutual respect and understanding that each partner is equal.

The realtionship of a parent and a child is completely different. Treating your child like a total equal adult, providing no structure and allowing them to run rampant/undisciplined is abusively neglectful. He punished her bad behavior, the same as a boss could someday fire her ass if she puts something that stupid about work on Facebook. Lesson learned.

The idea of treating my daughter like my wife is ludicrous and border line creepy, parents are bosses and need to set rules and enforce them with punishments and revocation of privileges.

His only mistake was putting it online, I'd prefer to discipline my child in private. He's still awesome though.

 

[SaetonChapelle]

Read this:

AM I BEING ABUSED?

Does your partner:

embarrasses the other person with put-downs
looks or acts in ways that are frightening
tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes
tries to stop the other person from seeing friends or family members
tries to take the other person?s money or Social Security check
makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared
makes all of the decisions
threatens to take away or hurt the children
prevents the other person from working or attending school
acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused
destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets
intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons
shoves,slaps, chokes or hits the other person
forces the other person to try and drop charges
threatens to commit suicide
threatens to kill the other person
If you answered ?yes? to even one of these questions,you may be in an abusive relationship.For support and more information please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE (7233) or at TTY 1-800-787-3224.

Bold text mine.

Now, for discusion, do you still think this man is awesome??

embarrassed with put downs: never outright insults his daughter. However does explain throughouly what she had done was wrong, and expresses this in the same fashion she had,
Looks or acts in a way thats frightening: Made youtube video. horrifying.
Tried to control what other does: Parent? Im pretty sure he's allowed to do this for his 15 year old daughter
Refuses money: Ya know, the money HE makes. That he doesnt HAVE to give to his daughter.
Makes all decisions: Parent again? Damn, should let our children make the rules from now on.
Acts like no big deal: Youtube video are EVIL. Damn, the bruises are strong with this girl
Intimidates with guns: Well... the laptop may have been intimidated. Pretty sure he didnt threaten her

I love this man. he is an awesome father. I even love the fact he replied to further statements about how he would not be going on the television or doing interviews because he did not wish to profit off this or further shame his daughter. He is a good man, and a good father.

Plus the show kept me entertained for a few minutes. Job well done

 

[wintercoat]

Personally I think this whole thing is being blown out of proportion because he used a Gun to prove his point (Though he did say that he'd 'Put a bullet through her laptop' if she ever did it again... so at least he stays true to his word). 10 bucks says this wouldn't be as big an issue if he just drove over it with a car or smashed it with a hammer.

Of course it wouldn't be as big of a deal if a gun wasn't involved. For some people, adding a gun instantly makes it a bad thing. Because as we all know, anything who's original purpose was to kill is an evil devise designed by Satan himself to corrupt mankind.

 

[viranimus]

You know, what is it with people. Im sorry but the guy is an excellent father. If you want to use your list, thats fine. Just make certain that the person answering the questions in the list is not an erratic know it all teenage girl. (not withstanding that this list is for a spouse or girlfriend, not a parent)

Spoiler: Dealing with certain teenage girls

embarrasses the other person with put-downs
OMG my dad is soooo stupid, I cant stand the way he breathes!

looks or acts in ways that are frightening
OMG how can my dad wear that. I know where in texas, but a cowboy hat? really?

tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes
OMG my dad never lets me do ANYTHING! I am so treated like a slave!!!!


makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared
OMG I cant believe my dad asked me to do chores just so I could get some money to go to X thing I like. No one I know ever has to come groveling to their parents for money.

makes all of the decisions
OMG my dad is such an idiot, He acts like he knows everything. He wont even listen to me after ive told him how hes wrong.


acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused
OMG Dad took my internet away. He blames me, like im the one who took my internet away. Hes the one who took the internet away, not me. He has no idea how important it is for me to have contact with my friends.


destroys the other person's property or threatens to kill pets
OMG my dad just ruined my life, He destroyed my computer. What is he going to do next? Shoot me? Hed like that, I know he hates me.


intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons
OMG my dad just tried to kill me. He was having a conversation with me while he was cleaning his gun. Why would anyone have a gun unless they wanted to kill someone.

OMG I wish my dad were dead. Hes not even liek human.

So if someone can answer those questions in the affirmative on behalf of the teenage girl, such as an adult like the mother. then yes there is automatically more validity to the claim. When dealing with a spoiled erratic teenage girl like this, It is impossible to take them at their word because they are swearing human rights violations simply because they arent getting their way. Obviously not applicable to all teenage girls, but its certainly widespread that there are an abundance of tropes surrounding this behavior.

It really disturbs me that anyone could see this as anything BUT an example of heroic parenting, but knowing that its not explains why I see as many useless and ineffectual kids these days. Even if you are not religious, this is one adage that needs to be remembered, Because it seems that what was proven from generation to generation to be shared and accumulated wisdom has seemingly been blocked from memory, with absolutely nothing in its place. Spare the rod, spoil the child. For the good of all children, remember it, because nothing good comes of allowing your children to walk all over you. Not for them, Certainly not for you. By not using appropriate discipline your HURTING that child by allowing them to get by with something they knew they were not supposed to do. When you do anything that is insufficient to counteract the childs negative behavior, all you are doing is giving them license to do it again because they will see your weak attempts at curtailing their behavior and perform a risk vs reward analysis to evaluate if the punishment to them is worth enduring in order to do what they were not supposed to be doing.


The guy is a hero. What he was doing was done out of love. Even if the snot nosed brat has no clue how that could be done out of love, that is exactly why he did this. He is a father who loves his daughter enough that he would not sit idly by as his little girl becomes a hate filled little brat who would publically condemn her parents just because they did not let her have her way. He expects his daughter to be a better person than that, and he took what steps needed to be taken to help make that happen.

Its insane to me. We talk about how kids are raised in single parent homes. We talk about how its important to have a father in a kids life. But as soon as a father fills his role as a father we want to jump on his back for doing the exact thing hes supposed to be doing? Honestly, I think we need to be asking what is wrong with us that anyone could consider him doing anything but filling his role as a father. Not what is wrong with him because really we need more fathers like him in this world. Maybe, just maybe we wouldnt see a bunch of neck bearded college kids complaining about corporate greed as they slug back their 8$ a cup of icecream flavored coffee.

 

[Yopaz]

Maybe I'm missing something...but why couldn't this have gone into the other thread? It's not like that thread is dying or anything

It's likelier for people to see it as its own thread than as a random post in a 14+ pager. Besides, it actually is in there, as a response to Dastardly.

Awesome, No. Correct, Yes. Also, this says PARTNER.

As for it saying "Partner:" I'd say it really doesn't make any difference whether it's your spouse or your daughter. Abuse is abuse.

Actually it makes all the difference in the world. It's domestic abuse if you try to control your partner into doing what you want. Is it child abuse when you try to make your kid use the potty?
You are supposed to assert control over your kids until they are able to make their own decisions and grown individuals. You also don't have to share your salary since kids aren't to be trusted with the house finances because they lack the abilities until they are taught about it.

I agree with you that this guy is batshit insane and that he might be abusive, but partner abuse and child abuse are two different things.

 

[lacktheknack]

Well, this is one-sided.

You probably should have found a relevant list, Owyn. Child != Partner, and the difference between them is huge.

And yes, I think he's fantastic.

 

[Ekit]

Who is Tommy Jordan?

 

[TheFinalFantasyWolf]

I just find it funny that not even the daughter is making a big a deal of the situation as everyone else. Relax, it's over.

 

[Rick Date]

The problem as I see it is this.
The internet allows us to put forward much information on a unregulated medium, which (not specifically) todays youth seem to think its 'okay' to get a million peoples feedback, instead of simply getting the important peoples feedback. How many times do you see facebook/twitter/tumblr/google+/myspace/(insert social medium here) posts which you know the individual would most likely NEVER, EVER speak to the person the message was intended for. If you seriously need to vent something and don't want anyone to find it, write it on a piece of paper, get your frustrations out, then immediately shred it.

I wish that all the folks who think social media is the place to vent and write obscene comments like the letter she posted could learn the valuable lesson that she did. ANYTHING posted on a social medium (especially the internet) can be found by ANYONE accidentally or otherwise, and these documents are always, always backed up, and shared with other sites, etc. I will bet you anything she will think twice before she posts anything from this point forward.

For those who think this is abuse, that's your opinion. I for one believe that the gun was overboard, but if he destroyed it any other way, he would still get flack for it. As a teenager, she is trying to find her mark in the world, secretly abusing (verbally or otherwise) the people who support you and put a roof over your head is not the way to make your mark in the world. It is, however a great way to piss those people off and give them a reason to not give you the luxuries that life has to offer. Mind you, luxuries are anything that doesn't include shelter, food, education, or clothing. Even at that point, many many children in this world would like to have those great luxuries. 'Beg' for luxuries? sure, why not? I'd bet this guy makes about 25-40 / hour. I bet he pays over 75% of that to maintain their home, car, health insurance, put food on the table, clothes on their backs, etc. When you break that down, you really get about 5-10/ hour of 'disposable' income. Yes. I would make my children ask for luxury items. If I have to work 60 hours to get them a laptop, I will make sure they will take care of it, they will not abuse it, etc. Even $20 for a movie is 2 hours of my work time to give my child 2 hours of leisure, not a big deal, if they can prove to me that they are doing their part to ensure that the family's livelihood is being maintained. It's a respect thing. They respect my wishes to have a happy, clean home, and I respect their wishes to have some leisurely fun. It's as simple as that.

I am sickened by how many people think that she 'needs' a car because they live in a 'rural' area, or how she 'needs' a laptop to survive... A 15 year old does not need these things, they want these things. When it comes to things you want, you earn them, you do not abuse them, and you use them properly for the purpose they were intended.

I highly doubt the laptop was purchased with the intent to use facebook on it, much less to publicly slander her parents to all (400+?) friends on her facebook(minus family). In reading more about this story, he originally posted this story on her facebook page, which ended up going out to about 40 more people. Those people blew it up... Unfortunately, we also don't know that her tirade wasn't shared with many more folks as well, because as a society, we just brush off a teenagers blatant disregard for her parents as a teen being a teen. B******T. Being a teen isn't an excuse for being dumb.

As for putting it online, I half heartedly disagree with it, but only because he had already tried other means of fixing the problem. When that failed, he went to teach her a lesson in humility. He decided that reading the letter, and responding to her complaints, then showing her her punishment on the medium which she seemed to enjoy was the proper punishment, and I can't blame him. In my opinion, if it worked, good for him. She was not hurt in the process, and now she will either be smarter about her 'privacy' settings, or (hopefully) she will learn what constitutes a real issue and what is frustration and how to deal with it appropriately

 

[FallenMessiah88]

OP = Win! For once it's good to see some common sense and decency on this site!

 

[Rottweiler]

"22, and no, I am not a parent. Now, same question of you?"

41, and have 4 nephews, 1 niece, and I take care of them regularly.


"On the first statement what is public humiliation, if not embarrassment? Because that's what he did."

And what were her public statements about her Father? Why, public humiliation. But why aren't you saying that *she* abused *her father*?


"Begging for money: He won't pay her for her chores, and she's too young to reasonably be expected to get that job he's pushing her to get."

I disagree.

"She has to ask him for literally /anything/, and when she points that out, he goes "well, get a job, you lazy bum," ignoring the fact that you need a car to work in a rural area."

Really? There's nothing within *bicycle* or *walking* distance? Oh, I'm sure she doesn't want to do that much physical work and expects to be handed whatever she wants, but no, I sincerely doubt she 'needs' a car.


" As for the laptop being "his" property? Maybe in the eyes of the law. But it was a gift, which means by any other standard, it was hers."

So the house belongs to her, too? Because she gets to use it but did nothing to pay for it, pay for the upkeep, or anything at all?

And interesting that you bring in 'other standards', because by most common standards having toys taken away from a disobedient, disrespectful child is not only normal, it's recommended by most child rearing methods. What standards are you using?

"Hell, under the eyes of the law, even if she /had/ earned it with her own money, because she's underage, it would still belong to him."

Actually I'm not sure that's true, but it's also not germane.

"Does that make it right for him to destroy it? The damage isn't in the legal property damage. It's in the emotional pain of having someone destroy your property."

What amazes me is you completely, utterly ignore any responsibility on the girl's part. No matter what she does, she is Entitled to have the things her father worked to get money to pay for, and she *does nothing* to earn. He *provided* the use of a Laptop. He has every right to take that laptop away and do whatever he wants with it.

When *you* start talking about what responsibilities the *girl* had to live up to, you'll have some point worth listening to.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

OP = Win! For once it's good to see some common sense and decency on this site!

Thank you. Sad that it's buried under so many wackos who think either that a 15 year old needs the same kind of parental relationship as a 3 year old (potty training comments, seriously?) or that turning 18 somehow magically changes the definition of abuse. It's about what it does to the emotional state of the individual being abused, not who is doing it to them. Also, why is everyone taking this guy's word at face value? The thought process seems to go "well, he says his daughter is spoiled, so she must be lying, and he must be telling the truth!" The only thing we can tell for sure is that one of them is lying and I'm not sure why anyone would even /suspect/ it was the daughter after watching that video.

 

[FalloutJack]

Is this about the guy shooting the laptop? Yeah, that was a stupid thing to do.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

embarrasses the other person with put-downs

You mean like how she did on Facebook?

looks or acts in ways that are frightening

You mean when he shot a gun when there was exactly no one near him?

tries to control what the other person does, who the other person sees or talks to, or where the other person goes

You mean like pretty much every parent in the history of ever? Are we really going to start considering grounding a child as abusing them?

makes the other person ask for money or refuses to give the other person money that is supposed to be shared

You mean how he paid $130 to upgrade her laptop? Or how he won't give her money for chores most kids do for free? Or how he PAID ONE HUNDRED AND THIRTY DOLLARS UPGRADING HER LAPTOP!

makes all of the decisions

You mean like how parents have the right to? You live in your parents house, you live by your parent's rules. If you don't like it, move out. Get a job and try supporting yourself because you obviously know so much as a teenager.

acts like the abuse is no big deal, denies doing it, or blames something or someone else, even the person being abused

He hasn't abused anyone.

destroys the other person?s property or threatens to kill pets

He paid for the laptop, he has the right to take it away from her. Now maybe he could have kept it away from her and given it to her when she was able to pay for it. Don't forget, this isn't the first time she's badmouthed her parents on Facebook.

intimidates the other personwith guns, knives or other weapons

Yeah initimidated her... by having her nowhere near when he fired the gun?