Forget the Friend Zone, it's OK to be attracted to a friend

[axlryder]

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again.

The friend zone should be referred to only when some form sexual/relational interest was once expressed by one party, but eventually that party's interest dissipates(usually right around the time the other party becomes an active pursuant).

I'm pretty sure this is what the term originally referred to, but then it evolved into its current form. Unfortunately, its current form is stupid (imo).

For instance, there was once a girl who was interested in me back in highschool. All my friends and her friends were like "dude, you better ask her out, she really likes you". Sadly, I wanted to take things slowly, so I ended up waiting like a month and then decided asking her out was something I wanted to do. Lo and behold, she was no longer interested. THAT is what I would call getting friend zoned. It's when you go from "potential relationship partner" to "friend" in someone's mind.

There was once a girl I met and liked, asked out and was rejected. That was NOT getting "friend zoned". That was just me getting turned down.

Difference.

I've also seen it when something already happened between two people, but then ended between them and one of those people has firmly relegated the other to "friend only", though I think that form of the term seems unnecessary.

 

[blackrave]

1.Friendzone is a thing- it is situation when person A knows that person B feels strong attraction towards him/her, but instead of same feelings feels pity, so person A decides to befriend person B, and person B agrees out of desperation. Often person A exploits person B, because A knows that B will oblige no matter what (at least that is how I consider this term)
2.It is a thing amongst both genders, sadly, when female is friendzoned it is treated by other females and males somewhere along the line of "don't worry, he is just blind/arrogant/male/stupid, one day he will see what he lost and he will regret how he treated you", while when it comes to friendzoned males it is treated by other peoples like... well, just read few comments in this thread
3.Trying to come out with logical solutions to friendzone is just nonsense, because friendzone comes out of desperation and similarly to most feelings and emotions this is highly illogical and often even irrational.
4.It is isn't about entitlement, oppression or any similar crap. There is nothing wrong in feeling strong romantic feelings towards another person. It is wrong to shame people for feeling this way.
5.This is mostly about inability to cope with rejection (understandable- it is always hard), and sometimes about abusing other people when you have upper hand over them.

 

[Loop Stricken]

Over to you. Thoughts? Criticisms? Plaudits?

Thank the Gods you were here to show me the light! Now I can get on with fancying all my sexy friends!
*Friends are 99% male*

[sub]fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck[/sub]

 

[Glasgow]

I had this happen to my, but the friend I had was in the friend zone with me. When he opened up to me I told him that if he wants to continue be friends with me this conversation never happened, and that I am not interested. I still see him from time to time but whenever I look into his eyes it's like he's angry at me.

 

[thehorror2]

I think a fair amount of this attitude towards relationships can be traced back to video games. I know, I know, video games never cause anything, hear me out.

Think about the way most video games we played growing up worked in regards to interpersonal romance. Think of every version of the Sims, every Bioware game since KotOR, literally any jRPG with a romantic element: romance is something you unlock by spending a lot of time with the girl/guy you like. Hell, in KotOR II Obsidian made it explicit and added a visible influence system that let you know exactly when the person you liked improved their opinion of you! (the fact that the influence system was in place for all companions notwithstanding) Relationships get portrayed as almost transactional: you do a bunch of stuff the girl likes, she invariably falls in love with you. Of course, this doesn't work in the real world. A girl who likes guys who do nice things isn't going to automatically fall in love with you just because she was in your party when you walked that old lady across the street. Even if you also stop to give money to a dozen beggars on the way to lunch.

I know not all friendzoned people are gamers, and not all gamers are friendzoned, but this "approach" to romance isn't the only disjunctive one in media. How about the way action movies present romance? Two people spend enough time in a stressful, intense environment, and by the end of the movie they're snogging in the corner while the smoke clears.

Lots of people (especially the worst kind, who use their being friendzoned as an excuse to fuel their rampant misogyny/misandry) were raised by culture, either pop or nerd, to believe on a subconscious level that if they did everything "right" a significant other would simply HAVE to consent and enter a relationship with them.

 

[lacktheknack]

Logically speaking, allowing that feeling to exist is hazardous to my wellbeing.

let's just say for a moment that I'm not completely retarded and socially bankrupt, and I hit on a girl at a club. It fails, as usual, as always, but if nobody who would mock me witnesses it, there is no ongoing effect if I do not let there be one.

If I become friends with a girl and become attracted to her, it's socially unnacceptable to pretend we never met if I asked her out and failed. It's simply not done, for partially good reason, from her point of view, that's just crappy manners.

But if I stick around, I have to endure it. I have to remind myself why it's hopeless to try. I have to remind myself that I'm a piece of shit who nobody would ever be attracted to in order for things to not fall apart.

Every. Single. Time. we meet.

Thus the only logical option is to completely destroy said feelings. Not allow them to develop. That is far easier than controlling them. Allowing them to develop has no likely positive outcomes, only negative ones.

Ever considered that it's your self-loathing that makes you unattractive to women? There's no social grace required when you say "Would you like to go out to dinner with me?" to a friend. If she says no, you can say "I was being friendly". If she says yes, then you already know how to interact with her at the restaurant, it's a lot easier to end up dating her.

OT: Two of my good friends were "just friends" for years, and now they're engaged. I don't know how anyone would think that friends are off-limits, when they actually allow feelings to grow between two people naturally.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

Friendzone doesn't exist.
Also people who "friendzoned" each other can still hook up later if they keep being just friends. Happens to me, to my friends and a bunch of people i know.
So unless i'm not living in a completly diffrent world i'd say it's just some internet-meme bullshit that got stuck into peoples heads.

Someone does not want to date you? Though cookie. You can't be friends because you'll be remembered what a loser you are (Poster #2 said that) - What the fuck is wrong with your selfesteem.
That person wants you as a friend because she/he values you as a person, but because she/he doesnt want to bump uglies you're a loser?
I think the mindset of people is the bigger problem than the issue between the people itself.

Also people overestimate the importance of humpin' anyway.

 

[axlryder]

The whole "friend zone" idea implies a fundamentally narcissistic and solipsistic way of looking at human interaction. In this framework, women are not autonomous individuals with their own preferences and desires. Any woman will be attracted to you as long as you do X and avoid Y: if she isn't interested in you, it's not that you aren't attractive to her, it's that she unfairly wrote you off because you were too "kind" or "caring" or whatever.

The whole thing has a gross belief underlying it that you are entitled to any woman you want and that you can be with any woman you want as long as you manipulate her properly. The view holds that dating and sex are purely transactional, that male-female friendship is inherently worthless, that any woman can be bedded by your being an aggressive douchebag, and the whole thing just reeks of misogyny, entitlement, and false victimhood. Very common among Nice Guys? who *~*~don't understand*~*~ why women are all such stupid bitches who only date assholes and friendzone every Nice Guy? who'd treat them right.

Fuck outta here wit that buuuullshit.

Hey, take care to specify that woman can be in the "friendzone" just as men can be the ones who are accused of "putting" someone in it. I realize you're having a lot of fun riding on the jaded generalizations wagon, but at least try to be a little more inclusive in your rants.

 

[Innegativeion]

blow it out of proportions.

Yeah, blowing things out of proportion. How ridiculous. Who would ever do something like that. *rolls eyes*

Obviously having a word for something that has always existed, and will always exist, means our society is being overrun with "overly sensitive sulking jerks". Clearly the use of this word must be banned, and then all overly sulking jerks will magically disappear.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

To be honest, if you have enough female friends, chances are you will be attracted to at least one of them, and chances are, they won?t be attracted to you. I?m pretty much on the road to accepting that, and I?m just saying to myself, ?I have bigger priorities right now than getting a girlfriend, and even that can wait until uni?.

Although, frankly, I never even know about the ?Friend Zone? until I watched Friends.

 

[Darken12]

it doesnt strike me as alfa male so much as some pathetic neckbeards revenge fantasy..I mean it is a rage comic

Yes, but the message at the end reminds me a lot of the "stop being a beta" thing the PUA community does a lot. Though maybe you're right and I'm way off base.

and yet you are using it to villianize men. You have an extremely warped view of friendzoning. It is nothing more than someone being shot down after putting oneself on the line but the other member just wants to be friends. There is no victim because there is no crime.

That is not how the word is used. It is very often (almost always) used as a way for the rejected party to feel sorry for themselves, blame the person who rejected them, and then try to find ways to "get out" of it or avoid it happening in the future, as if friendship with someone you're attracted to is the social equivalent of the bubonic plague.

If say a woman finally mustered the courage to ask a guy out whom she had a secret crush on and was rejected, is she a victim? No. You would feel bad for her, sure, because having your heart broken can be soul crushing. The only thing she is a "victim" of is bad luck. Same thing with friendzoning. Not to mention, the term friendzone is often used by OTHERS to describe what happened to a rejected person. If friendzoning was only used by the individual in question as a way to cope with rejection in an unhealthy manner, others would not readily use it to describe what happens.

Yes, they would, because, if it happened to them, that would allow them the same "get out of responsibility" card that the rejected person is getting.

It is nothing more than feeling pity for someone who was rejected and is now just friends, not some sort of insidious plot. Honestly, your idea of friendzoning sounds as batty as conspiracy theorists. At worst, if a person self describes her/his situation as being friendzoned s/he might be looking for pity, but thats about it.

and before you ask, no i have not been friendzoned. If anything I would be the friendzoner as I dont believe that turning a long standing friendship into something more serious is a good idea.

Don't take my word for it. Google "get out of the friendzone" and read the disgusting "advice" given to people. The best way to disprove something you think is ludicrous is to go out and see for yourself.

The friendzone is always portrayed as a bad thing, that's why the word was invented, as a way to name a specific thing that was being perceived as a problem. Being friends with someone you're attracted to is considered a problem to avoid or get out of. This is an extremely unhealthy attitude that stems from extremely immature people and perpetuated by people who need to grow up.

Also, what the fuck is the problem with being friends with someone you're attracted to? Why is the friendship with a woman so worthless? Why is it only important that she fuck you or date you? Why can't it possibly be okay to be friends with her? Why is it treated as a failure when a woman thinks you'd make a good friend? Because you want more than that? Do you throw a tantrum every time you don't get what you want?

Honestly, I'm sick of this being said.

Not that I don't see people saying "She's so evil, friendzoning me, it couldn't possibly be something wrong with me!", but this view seems to act like nobody who ever wanted something more, but ended up being friends, knows that they fucked something up.

See, I know I'm ugly, socially moronic, lacking any kind of charm, relatively poor, sexually inexperienced, and downright retarded. I know it is my fault, I'm the piece of shit here, not her, and I'm fed up of it being made out like I never admit that.

Then why do you need the word "friendzone" if you admit this is just as normal as any other form of rejection? Is there something special with being rejected and wanting to stay friends as opposed to being rejected and not wanting to see you again?

If you don't blame anybody but yourself for being rejected, you don't need the word friendzone, because she didn't do anything special that merits distinguishing it from other forms of rejection.

 

[Frostbite3789]

Oh, this friend-zone crap needs to stop, people need to learn to accept rejection.

Here's how I evaluate friend-zoning, as this has happened on multiple occasions. You ask a girl out, or show interest in her in any way and her reasoning for turning you down is she's "not looking for anything right now."

Then two weeks later is with another guy. Then a month later is bitching to you about that guy. She didn't turn you down because she just isn't looking for something. That was her way of wanting to keep you around as a friend and skirting the truth. If someone isn't attracted to me, that's fine. But be straight with me.

If we're that good of friends, our friendship will endure. Sure it might be difficult for a bit, but give it a week or so. It's not some grievous wound to be told someone isn't attracted to you. It's a slight wound to the pride. It's a much bigger wound to the pride to realize they think you can't handle it.

 

[Frostbite3789]

I'm sick of you guys complaining about this 'friendzone'. If you are not a suitable mate, then go and man up.

I'm also sick of these friendzone threads. There are already many of them on the database of the Escapist. Also, please see my response above.

You...quoted yourself agreeing with yourself. wat?

 

[DugMachine]

I agree. One of my best friends is a female and I think she's one of the most attractive people I know. But I know she's my friend and have no romantic interests in her.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

1. People need to grow a pair and ask said person of desire out.
2. If he/she says no, then move on, grow up and realise that not all people want to shag you.

The adorable kitten has the answer. The 'friend zone' is something people make the choice to be in. Don't be friends with someone who is fully aware that you want more but wants to keep you on the sidelines.

 

[Yopaz]

It's been so long since we've had a friend-zone thread here I was hoping that fad has passed just to be briefly mention in other threads. I was wrong. I hate being wrong sometimes...

Sorry. I'd intended to use the matter more as a point of departure than go stomping over old ground, but clearly people still feel strongly about this so perhaps there's more to be learned and understood from further discussion.

I honestly wasn't sure if anyone else thought the way I did; whether anyone else had a little lay-by in their head in which to park feeling of attraction towards people who are valued as friends. All of a sudden it came to me that maybe that's a healthy thing after all and perhaps it might avoid getting lost in the messy and confusing back-roads of supposed friend-zoning.

Having been there myself, I'd say I personally find much merit in Darken12's analysis. Retrospectively analysing one's motives is a tricky task but I do recall sulky victimhood being present although in this case there was (and, happily, continues to be) a strand pf genuine friendship woven through it all.

At the same time, I do think that, at the time of life I assume most people here are at, interactions with the opposite sex can be confusing, uncertain and challenging. Such is the means by which we learn and become -hopefully- more socially aware people. But it can produce nebulous zones where locating exactly where you stand vis-a-vis your emotional relations with someone else. The frienzone might not possess objective validity as a genuine social phenomenon, but the fact that it has been thought of and perceived by some to be legitimate could be seen as illuminating in terms of how people deal with what can be a difficult life experience

As for your thoughts and ideas I actually agree with what you're saying. I feel the same way, I have a lot of female friends, but I have never really thought of them in a sexual way.

Your thoughts are good enough, but this subject brings out the worst on this forum. Accusations about how I am in the friend zone simply because I'm ugly, or that I am fooling myself, that the friend zone is a static thing that can't ever change. It also used to bring out the misogynists we've got.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

Most grievances that my flesh & blood friends have ever had about their platonic friendships with women revolve around women making the classic mistake of trying to develop a feminine friendship with a man. That rarely ends well and apart from the hardcore creepers out there, probably accounts for a majority of the talk of friend-zoning on the internet. If women want to be strictly friends with a man then should initially treat a male friend as male friends treat each other, although as a member of the gender and sexual orientation they're attracted to I would stay away from belittling their sex lives. If I show up at a person's house and announce that we're going to play a game and begin playing the game with them without first laying down the ground rules to a game they've never played before, then mistakes are inevitable and the game is going to turn out to be an epic cluster-fuck.

 

[axlryder]

I keep saying this, but I'll say it again.

The friend zone should be referred to only when some form sexual/relational interest was once expressed by one party, but eventually that party's interest dissipates(usually right around the time the other party becomes an active pursuant).

I'm pretty sure this is what the term originally referred to, but then it evolved into its current form. Unfortunately, its current form is stupid (imo).

For instance, there was once a girl who was interested in me back in highschool. All my friends and her friends were like "dude, you better ask her out, she really likes you". Sadly, I wanted to take things slowly, so I ended up waiting like a month and then decided asking her out was something I wanted to do. Lo and behold, she was no longer interested. THAT is what I would call getting friend zoned. It's when you go from "potential relationship partner" to "friend" in someone's mind.

I still don't agree. The way you describe it makes the girl whose attraction to you changed responsible for her change in feelings. And people can't control that. You're trying to shift agency to her, away from yourself.

I see where you're coming from, but the potential connotations that could be derived from the statement don't negate the reality that an actual shift occurred within her brain (thus some kind of event occurred). The "friend-zoning" in question is just a name for that shift in her feelings. It's like "falling out of love". It's not designed to lay blame or attribute responsibility, just describe a specific yet somewhat common emotional phenomenon of "liking" then "no longer liking" (at least based on the usage I've seen).