Forget the Friend Zone, it's OK to be attracted to a friend

[Vegosiux]

Here's how I evaluate friend-zoning, as this has happened on multiple occasions. You ask a girl out, or show interest in her in any way and her reasoning for turning you down is she's "not looking for anything right now."

Then two weeks later is with another guy. Then a month later is bitching to you about that guy. She didn't turn you down because she just isn't looking for something. That was her way of wanting to keep you around as a friend and skirting the truth. If someone isn't attracted to me, that's fine. But be straight with me.

If we're that good of friends, our friendship will endure. Sure it might be difficult for a bit, but give it a week or so. It's not some grievous wound to be told someone isn't attracted to you. It's a slight wound to the pride. It's a much bigger wound to the pride to realize they think you can't handle it.

Pretty much this, indeed. Be straight or don't expect any friendship from me, because if I know you're not being straight, I will not trust you, and if I do not trust you, the grounds for any kind of friendship is kind of shaky, no?

But don't think you can get "acquaintance" and "friend" mixed up and get away with it on my watch *grin*

 

[Duskwaith]

And what's the problem with the word "friends", then? Why do we need to specify that you've put your friends in the friend zone? Do we put our acquaintances in the acquaintance zone? Our spouses in the spouse zone? Our family in the family zone? Our coworkers in the coworker zone? Our classmates in the classmate zone?

Reminded me of this

I fancy one of my friends as an attractive,female. Shes hot but im her friend. The friend zone is used more as an excuse for why you aren't tapping that as opposed to being an actual thing with say a friend your not attracted to i.e just a friend. Its pretty much a double negative

 

[Overusedname]

I recently got hit on by two friends this month, one I didn't even realize was doing it.

I don't THINK things are awkward between us. I hope. Desperately.

I've posted long-form thoughts on this topic before, but at this point I'm beginning to understand that...I've only felt 'friendzoned' once. And I've been dumped by a girlfriend once. And that's my whooole experience with rejection. I seem to cause 'friendzone' a lot. So maybe I don't have the best perspective.

This whole thing confuses me, not gonna lie. A lot of people do very clearly blame the person for rejecting them and label them as a terrible person. And I've felt very awkward around some female (and gay) friends who have openly flirted with me. I don't know what to make of it.

Isn't that a given? I'll be the first to admit some of my female friends are hot as hell. Is it actually considered a negative/taboo in some places to be attracted to friends of the opposite sex? (Or the same, if you're gay).

Also this. Yeah, some of my best friends are notably cuter than the others, but contrary to what certain people claim, not every man is a sentient erection seeking constant fulfillment.

 

[Monster_user]

I don't see it as a bad thing, or negative in anyway. If a person doesn't want to be more than friends with another, then more power to them.

Friends are better than girlfriends. Girlfriends expect gifts, attention, intimacy, and then turn around a tear your heart out of your chest. Far too much trouble. Stay a virgin, stay friends, live a long happy life.

Logically speaking, allowing that feeling to exist is hazardous to my wellbeing.

let's just say for a moment that I'm not completely retarded and socially bankrupt, and I hit on a girl at a club. It fails, as usual, as always, but if nobody who would mock me witnesses it, there is no ongoing effect if I do not let there be one.

If I become friends with a girl and become attracted to her, it's socially unnacceptable to pretend we never met if I asked her out and failed. It's simply not done, for partially good reason, from her point of view, that's just crappy manners.

But if I stick around, I have to endure it. I have to remind myself why it's hopeless to try. I have to remind myself that I'm a piece of shit who nobody would ever be attracted to in order for things to not fall apart.

Every. Single. Time. we meet.

Thus the only logical option is to completely destroy said feelings. Not allow them to develop. That is far easier than controlling them. Allowing them to develop has no likely positive outcomes, only negative ones.

Ever considered that it's your self-loathing that makes you unattractive to women? There's no social grace required when you say "Would you like to go out to dinner with me?" to a friend. If she says no, you can say "I was being friendly". If she says yes, then you already know how to interact with her at the restaurant, it's a lot easier to end up dating her.

OT: Two of my good friends were "just friends" for years, and now they're engaged. I don't know how anyone would think that friends are off-limits, when they actually allow feelings to grow between two people naturally.

This is not always the case. People are different, some allow feelings to grow, and others don't.

 

[Reeve]

"Your blood-drool attracts the flies"

In this case: The the blood-drool being threads on gender/sex/relationship issues. And the flies being the regular posters that love to post in these types of threads.

 

[Vault101]

Friends are better than girlfriends. Girlfriends expect gifts, attention, intimacy, and then turn around a tear your heart out of your chest. Far too much trouble. Stay a virgin, stay friends, live a long happy life.

thats a little unfair...not everyone expects gifts, intamcy....well thats part of whatbeing girlfrend/boyfreind is...attention some people should know that others need space the last part....oh come on now

 

[axlryder]

I still don't agree. The way you describe it makes the girl whose attraction to you changed responsible for her change in feelings. And people can't control that. You're trying to shift agency to her, away from yourself.

I see where you're coming from, but the potential connotations that could be derived from the statement don't negate the reality that an actual shift occurred within her brain (thus some kind of event occurred). The "friend-zoning" in question is just a name for that shift in her feelings. It's like "falling out of love". It's not designed to lay blame or attribute responsibility, just describe a specific yet somewhat common emotional phenomenon of "liking" then "no longer liking" (at least based on the usage I've seen).

Funnily enough I'm against the term "fall in love" for the opposite reason. I believe love (not attraction) is a choice, because love is not a feeling, it's a decision to put someone else's happiness ahead of our own. So when I hear "fall in love" I imagine people waiting for a magic bolt from the blue to make them feel that commitment, when in fact they have agency in how they approach other people's needs.

I think the best way to put it is just, "not attracted". "She's not attracted to me any more," is perfectly clear, says exactly what needs to be said, and most importantly says it without passing judgment or blame or agency. She just stopped feeling something. It doesn't matter why.

Well, not being attracted to someone anymore is a broader statement and doesn't necessarily convey what "friend-zoning" would denote in that context. Friend-zoning generally refers to an "expiration of a dating window" so to speak. They spent too long as friends after they met without romantic interaction and that resulted in that window being shut. It's a very specific thing that seems to happen to people (likely due to those feelings of infatuation wearing off and getting to see the persons flaws better as the friendship goes on). However, (in fact, more importantly and a point I failed to mention in my previous comment due to having had to write it hastily) is that you can still be "attracted" to someone on a physical or emotional level and friend-zone them (a decision typically born out of volition).

I've done that a couple of times to girls. I found them attractive, but then after getting to know them determined they were no longer prospective romantic partners due to various reasons and felt less infatuated with them. I've known girls to do the same thing. We've all called it "friend-zoning" and certainly don't feel like it's something bad. If anything, I'd say that's the most appropriate and best usage of the term. Thinking on what you said before, referring friend-zoning without observable intent doesn't quite sit right. I still think it's a more valid a use of the term than what the "friend-zone" is more colloquially seen as, but it comes down to "if the brain is unconsciously taking the action should you really use a term that seems to denote more initiative"?

In the end, it feels best to refer to it when someone actually makes a conscious decision to no longer want to date a person and only interact with them as friends. That said, I think the phenomenon the term describes (at least among my group of friends) is too common and specific to just switch it out with a generic descriptor of events. It's literally summed up whole conversations for us.

Anyway, good observations.

Also, I agree that falling in love is a stupid term. It was really just an example though. Besides, the word love has such a long and convoluted history and so many different potential meanings that it's definitely not something I'd want to dive in to.

 

[axlryder]

Then you weren't attracted to them any more. You thought they were pretty, but their appearance wasn't enough to make you maintain attraction in the face of other factors you didn't like.

That's still a change in attraction. You didn't choose to stop being attracted to them. It just happened when you got to know them better. And it would have happened regardless of if you found out through dating or through being their friend. So to call it friend-zoning is just pointlessly confusing the issue.

Actually, I chose to stop wanting to DATE them or pursue a romantic relationship. I already explained this. I was still very attracted to some of these girls on some level, be it physical or emotional or both. However, I decided that they weren't DATING material. I DECIDED. I weighed the factors and came to a conclusion. It was an action taken of my own volition. I consciously put them in the "just friends" category. I've known others to do the same thing. It's not pointlessly confusing the issue, because it often happens prior to a relationship forming (usually about a month or two prior). That's why I said I think it's unnecessary to use the term to refer to two people post-relationship. That would just be redundant.

You're welcome to use whatever terms you like- attempts to artificially control language rarely work. But you'll have to face the consequence that by using the term, you're going to be judged by others as resembling the other group that uses it.

I couldn't care less. It doesn't mean I can't still use it however I want and explain to others what I mean. If they still choose to judge me for using a term in a way that makes sense then they can feel free to do so. I wouldn't want to associate with them anyway. Also, "artifically" controlling language? Words take on new meanings all the time. They mean different things in different places. I'm merely choosing to use the term in the way I've seen it used and am choosing to try and proliferate that usage. If it catches on then good. If it doesn't, then at least it's a term my friends and I can use effectively.

 

[axlryder]

However, I decided that they weren't DATING material.

Why would you choose not to date someone you were attracted to?

Also, "artifically" controlling language?

Yes, meaning it would be pointless for me to try and force you to stop using terms you like using.

It does seem that you're struggling against the tide with that usage though, at least outside of your select social group.

Ah, I'm very sorry, I misinterpreted your meaning there.

Also, they might not have enough direction in their lives, they might party a bit too much, they might have some irreconcilable philosophical views, they might not be very honest or have some other deal-breaker trait, I might think we're just a bad match, etc.

 

[axlryder]

Also, they might not have enough direction in their lives, they might party a bit too much, they might have some irreconcilable philosophical views, they might not be very honest or have some other deal-breaker trait, I might think we're just a bad match, etc.

I don't know about you, but I regard all these things as aspects of attraction. If I'm attracted to someone who parties a lot, I still want to be with them. If they party so much I don't want to be around them, then I stop being attracted to them. I rarely consciously decide "I will exclude people from my love life who behave the following ways..."

I imagine that if I actually dated many of these girls, I eventually WOULD stop being attracted to them (or just become unhappy) due to whatever negative trait they have, so I just choose to kill that possibility by never letting it happen in some cases. Obviously I have to get to know the girl and what she's like before making that kind of decision though. What's more, I can be attracted to girls who I genuinely have lost interest in in some other area and think "I COULD date them, they are pretty cute, but I think it would get boring or whatever" and decide to just keep it as friends. I view attraction as more of a gradient across several different scales.

 

[SushiJaguar]

Oy vey.

The term "Friend Zone" refers to the idea that someone isn't attracted to you because they can only see you as a friend. This term is used and experienced by guys and girls alike. It's a thing.

I honestly don't know why there's such vitriol towards the idea of the "friend-zone".

There are infinite reasons why somebody might not be attracted to you. Have you heard of the "ugly zone" or the "not my type zone" or the "asexual zone" or the "gay zone" or the "already dating someone zone" or the "no chemistry zone" or the "incompatible personalities zone", just to name a few?

The reason I have so much vitriol for the friend zone is because it shifts the responsibility to the person who doesn't feel the attraction. The phrasing is always "X friendzoned you/put you on the friend zone" and never "I put myself in the friend zone". Friendzoning is described as an undesirable thing that someone else does to you. You, the rejected person, are the innocent victim, and the other person is almost always described as having done something bad by not corresponding your feelings or attraction.

The only time the friendzone is described as the rejected person's responsibility is by disgusting misogynists who say that "she friendzoned you because you're too beta, you need to be more dominant, aggressive and Alpha, because [insert sexism here]."

Yes, women claim to be friendzoned too, and they are just as unwilling to face up to rejection as the guys who use the term.

Lemme ask you. How many times have you ever been told, staight up, by a person you have spent time with and grown close to, that you're too ugly etc for them to date?

Oh what's that? Zero times? Because they're looking out for your feelings (however illadvised and misguidedly) perhaps? No, saying one has been friend-zoned doesn't make one a rejection-avoiding crybaby. It provides a nice, encompassing concept for people to grasp to help them deal with the situation they've been put in. If you can recognise something, and know it, you can defeat it. People are afraid of the unknown, and unfortunately, when you are rejected by someone who sees you as a friend, they often don't want to tell you to your face /why/ you're being rejected. Because they care just enough to not hurt you. So all you get is a big old question mark that doesn't provide closure, doesn't provide reason, and just results in even more hurt and confusion.

And by the way, you can't put yourself in the friend zone. That's just ridiculous.

 

[Giftfromme]

I'm sick of you guys complaining about this 'friendzone'. If you are not a suitable mate, then go and man up.

I'm also sick of these friendzone threads. There are already many of them on the database of the Escapist. Also, please see my response above.

You...quoted yourself agreeing with yourself. wat?

AAHAHAH fucking hilarious. I'm glad you picked that up, I might have missed it.

But if we stopped making threads on topics people were sick of, we wouldn't have any threads lol. I've been "friendzoned" and by a chick before and just decided to drop her. It was basically her way of saying "no" to me. But it didn't matter. Also I have inadvertently friendzoned two chicks in the past in my scrubness, when I could have been enjoying sexual intercouse with both. But I was a shy scrub back then and it's not a mistake I plan on making again.

 

[el_kabong]

The whole "friend zone" idea implies a fundamentally narcissistic and solipsistic way of looking at human interaction. In this framework, women are not autonomous individuals with their own preferences and desires. Any woman will be attracted to you as long as you do X and avoid Y: if she isn't interested in you, it's not that you aren't attractive to her, it's that she unfairly wrote you off because you were too "kind" or "caring" or whatever.

The whole thing has a gross belief underlying it that you are entitled to any woman you want and that you can be with any woman you want as long as you manipulate her properly. The view holds that dating and sex are purely transactional, that male-female friendship is inherently worthless, that any woman can be bedded by your being an aggressive douchebag, and the whole thing just reeks of misogyny, entitlement, and false victimhood. Very common among Nice Guys? who *~*~don't understand*~*~ why women are all such stupid bitches who only date assholes and friendzone every Nice Guy? who'd treat them right.

I don't really see how the friend-zone implies that women aren't autonomous. First, I've always heard and used the phrase of someone "being put" in the friend-zone. That implies to me the act of some autonomous other. Second, women can just as easily be put into the friend-zone, so if your assessment of friend-zone is that the intended interest of affection is implied to have no autonomy, then neither men or women have autonomy.

In regards to the nice guy comments, again, there's gender reciprocity you're not addressing. Nice PEOPLE are the only ones who can get put in the friend-zone. However, nice people are also the only ones who can PUT someone in the friend-zone. The friend-zone is created by both parties, both of whom are too polite to express their true feelings. Allow me to elaborate using my own personal experiences:

I used to be a nice guy. I was polite, soft-spoken (though not anti-social), and thoughtful. I put the needs of others above my own. When I was a nice guy, I was put in the friend-zone by a nice girl and put a nice girl in the friend-zone (several times, actually). The basic interaction is something like this:

1. Nice guy/girl A has feelings for someone else who is their friend and also a nice guy/girl (B).
2. When these feelings are expressed, nice person B doesn't feel the same for person A.
3. Person B doesn't want to hurt the other (because they're nice/polite and wish to remain friends with person A).
4. Person B expresses the truth to person A, but doesn't directly say the cause to person A, using euphemisms or general deflections ("it's not you, it's me", "I just don't feel that way about you", "I don't want to ruin our friendship", etc.)
5. Person A thanks person B for their honesty. They attempt to continue to be person B's friend (because only a jerk would stop hanging out with someone only because they rejected your advances), but suffer with their feelings (mostly because they feel it would be impolite to keep bringing it up.

Thus, the friend-zone is created. It's two people stuck by their own niceness/politeness into a situation that may make them both uncomfortable for different reasons. When I was nice, I stuck girls in the friend-zone quite a bit. I valued their company, but had absolutely no desire to be with them sexually. Of course, being the polite guy, I would just politely deflect their advances.

Now, why do assholes/douchebags/bitches never get caught in the friend-zone. While I was a nice person in my youth, I have since turned into sort of an elitist, selfish, and volatile asshole. So, I'm going to plug in the above scenario with an asshole.

1. Asshole A has feeling for person B.
2. Person B doesn't feel that way about Asshole A, but still wants to be friends.
3. Asshole A, being interested in only his own desires, doesn't pursue the friendship.

OR

1. Person A has feelings for Asshole B.
2. Asshole B doesn't feel that way about person A and tells them so in a very direct manner.
3. Person A realized Asshole B is, in fact, an asshole and doesn't pursue the friendship.

See? No friend-zones are created when there's an asshole involved. It's like a recipe. You need 2 nice people to make a friend-zone. Without both parties being nice, it'd be like making fire in a vacuum.

 

[Vault101]

I don't really see how the friend-zone implies that women aren't autonomous. First, I've always heard and used the phrase of someone "being put" in the friend-zone. That implies to me the act of some autonomous other.

its because often they completly forget that women actually have their own wants/prefernces in the situation....instead they treat her like some kind of dating sim or romance subplot...that theONLY reason she isnt going out with you is because she's eather a ***** or you clearly didnt pick the right dialouge options and choose the correct paths so therefore you are freindzoned

again shes not a person, she's a mathmatical equasion or game

 

[Legendairy314]

Urgh, another friend zone topic. All right, I'll bite.

Specifically, I'll share the situation I've been in that's been bugging me on and off for days.

-Friends for years
-Develop crush over friend
-Confesses feeling to friend but denied
-Still hangs out w/ friend but feelings still somewhat there

What do I do with that?! Awesome person that I can't help but want to hang out with yet every time I see them I'm reminded that I've been rejected. Every time I laugh or look at said person it hurts and there's nothing I can do about it. The only saving grace is that we'll hopefully be moving our own separate ways within the next few months. Then I should be able to put some emotional distance and get over feelings that are still going strong for almost a year.

 

[Daveman]

I've recently come to the conclusion that the friendzone is bullshit. It gives the idea that if you had asked her out from the get go you wouldn't be where you are now, for some reason assuming she fancied you initially but then goes off you once she discovers all that stuff you have in common and your similar sense of humour etc. It's retarded, I used to be retarded and believe it myself so don't beat yourself up about it if you currently believe, you'll get smarter with age.

I've actually been racking my brain lately because I'm really attracted to one of my friends. But no matter what mental tactics I try, I can't seem to shake said feelings. Whats worse is that its not just affection, it's resulted in pointless jealousy, self-loathing and anxiety. I don't buy into the whole "friendzone" thing though, I think the best couples almost always start out as friends.

Very true. I recently felt similar about one of my friends, but then I thought there's no reason to be guilty about it, she's beauti-awesome, how could I feel any other way? So I decided I'd just keep up the flirtatious behaviour I love to do around her regardless. Give up trying to shake the feelings. Just realise that, just like with all relationship conquests, it might not work out.

Urgh, another friend zone topic. All right, I'll bite.

Specifically, I'll share the situation I've been in that's been bugging me on and off for days.

-Friends for years
-Develop crush over friend
-Confesses feeling to friend but denied
-Still hangs out w/ friend but feelings still somewhat there

What do I do with that?! Awesome person that I can't help but want to hang out with yet every time I see them I'm reminded that I've been rejected. Every time I laugh or look at said person it hurts and there's nothing I can do about it. The only saving grace is that we'll hopefully be moving our own separate ways within the next few months. Then I should be able to put some emotional distance and get over feelings that are still going strong for almost a year.

Again, I'd say don't worry about it, it's hard to do that but ultimately you're beating yourself up over very little. It's impossible to go from having feelings for someone to not. I've never stopped fancying girls ever, even after being rejected, and distance or time apart never really helps either. Just know that it's perfectly ok to fancy your friends. Girls find this weird because they're not biologically programmed to hump everything with a face, but really, it's ok.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

Their should never be a friendzone. If you are friends with a girl fine. If you are friends with a girl and you want to rail the living shit out of her, fine. If you are friends with a girl and you want to date said girl, not fine. Ask her out/confess attraction whatever you gotta do, and then if she rejects you outright, leave. Never talk to her again.

I just saved everyone a lot of bullshit.

And just throw away whatever friendship you've had, even if it might have been years? Not fine.

All this talk about the "friendzone" being some misogynistic revenge fantasy made up by rejected man-children... how much of this is based on things written on the internet, and how much on things you've heard and know of in the outside world?

1. People need to grow a pair and ask said person of desire out.
2. If he/she says no, then move on, grow up and realise that not all people want to shag you.

And some people need to realize that moving on is not something you can just do right away. If they can just forget about someone in an instant, they likely didn't have feelings for said person in the first place. If human beings could just flick a switch to destroy certain feelings within them, we would live in an utopia. But sadly we can't, ergo we have grudges and bitterness that take years to overcome. It's always easier to try to just forget the whole thing and/or suppress it rather than actually try to deal with it.

This is a strange thread.