Former Nirvana Members "Dismayed" Over Guitar Hero 5

[Icehearted]

I've met people suffering and surviving with worse. I may be harsh, but only after the fact. I'm not going to condemn those contemplating the possibilty but I only hold any respect for those that try their hardest for those that care about them and push through that.

Suicide is extremely selfish alot of the time and those rare cases that exist where it isn't are so scarce they're a tiny blip on the radar. Those that are left behind I are the only victims of the suffering that I see any evidence of.

You don't think that's a glib generalization? There are mentally ill people that will never get better, they burden themselves with suffering, their families (and taxpayers) financially, how is death anything but generous? I think to call such an act selfish shows more fear and resentment than anything.

Would you have a person suffer terribly, for whatever reasons, to "bravely" make their friends and family happy then? Is that the opposite of the suicidal cowardice you're talking about?

The population is growing, but the world is not. If anything, suicide seems more a gift than an act of selfishness. I'd also like to think that as far as being cowardly, it takes much more nerve to put a gun in your mouth than not to.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but aside from the typically glib generalizations, I do not see how it is selfish or cowardly, dodging consequences for criminal deeds (like Nazis did) notwithstanding.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

Back on topic; once again Dave Grohl and Kris Novoselic emerge as the voices of reason and sanity in anything Cobain related. Thank God they're around to put some perspective on this whole thing.
I totally agree with them that having Kurt appear to play the two Nirvana songs is an awesome tribute to them man, but to have him play and sing to the type of the disposable crap that he was diametrically opposed to is a bit of a mockery. It would be like having an animated Stalin singing about the joys of shopping at Walmart.

 

[13lackfriday]

Well, looks like the student is surpassing the master.

Guitar Hero started the music-sim game, and now Rock Band is taking over.
Guess we better settle in for the transition.

Funny, Guitar Hero 5's gotten embroiled in a world of controversial shit over Nirvana, and Rock Band: The Beatles has been hailed the "greatest music-based game of all time" (true words, you find the source).

Edit:

Oh well, I was never much for Kurt...all I've known him for is spouting gibberish as fodder for Weird Al and blowing his brains out over fears of going "mainstream."

That said, I was surprised that Courtney Love is actually a very intelligent, independent spirit in the music world.
Her Twitter post about this didn't really show that side of her.

 

[Meado]

Well, looks like the student is surpassing the master.

Guitar Hero started the music-sim game, and now Rock Band is taking over.
Guess we better settle in for the transition.

Funny, Guitar Hero 5's gotten embroiled in a world of controversial shit over Nirvana, and Rock Band: The Beatles has been hailed the "greatest music-based game of all time" (true words, you find the source).

Actually, it's more like the master got reincarnated into a younger body and killed... himself... errr, wait...

Well, we all know the story; Harmonix was founded by the original creators of Guitar Hero after they became displeased with the way Activision was taking the series. They took all their original ideas and improved upon them while Guitar Hero slowly stagnated.

 

[13lackfriday]

Well, looks like the student is surpassing the master.

Guitar Hero started the music-sim game, and now Rock Band is taking over.
Guess we better settle in for the transition.

Funny, Guitar Hero 5's gotten embroiled in a world of controversial shit over Nirvana, and Rock Band: The Beatles has been hailed the "greatest music-based game of all time" (true words, you find the source).

Actually, it's more like the master got reincarnated into a younger body and killed... himself... errr, wait...

Well, we all know the story; Harmonix was founded by the original creators of Guitar Hero after they became displeased with the way Activision was taking the series. They took all their original ideas and improved upon them while Guitar Hero slowly stagnated.

Oh, well that's good news then...

Developers should always look for the best output for their work.
Away from the innovation-crushing grip of publishers.

 

[Charli]

I've met people suffering and surviving with worse. I may be harsh, but only after the fact. I'm not going to condemn those contemplating the possibilty but I only hold any respect for those that try their hardest for those that care about them and push through that.

Suicide is extremely selfish alot of the time and those rare cases that exist where it isn't are so scarce they're a tiny blip on the radar. Those that are left behind I are the only victims of the suffering that I see any evidence of.

You don't think that's a glib generalization? There are mentally ill people that will never get better, they burden themselves with suffering, their families (and taxpayers) financially, how is death anything but generous? I think to call such an act selfish shows more fear and resentment than anything.

Would you have a person suffer terribly, for whatever reasons, to "bravely" make their friends and family happy then? Is that the opposite of the suicidal cowardice you're talking about?

The population is growing, but the world is not. If anything, suicide seems more a gift than an act of selfishness. I'd also like to think that as far as being cowardly, it takes much more nerve to put a gun in your mouth than not to.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but aside from the typically glib generalizations, I do not see how it is selfish or cowardly, dodging consequences for criminal deeds (like Nazis did) notwithstanding.

Okay last post on this, you're blurring the lines of Euthenasia, Suicide and the contraversies surrounding that which is (I thought obviously) not where I'm coming from. Also your mind set is of a gravely different one to that of mine emotionally and politically, so can we kindly agree to disagree and let the good people in here continue talking about Nirvana/Guitar Hero and all the fun rubbish surrounding that debacle, because frankly, I have to go to sleep now.

I disagree with everything you've stated and could probably write a nice essay format reply on all the points you've made, but at this hour... I've had to do this in debate once before, it ended at a stalemate (what a shock) and I'm really loathe to repeat it.

 

[Icehearted]

Okay last post on this, you're blurring the lines of Euthenasia, Suicide and the contraversies surrounding that which is (I thought obviously) not where I'm coming from. Also your mind set is of a gravely different one to that of mine emotionally and politically, so can we kindly agree to disagree and let the good people in here continue talking about Nirvana/Guitar Hero and all the fun rubbish surrounding that debacle, because frankly, I have to go to sleep now.

I disagree with everything you've stated and could probably write a nice essay format reply on all the points you've made, but at this hour... I've had to do this in debate once before, it ended at a stalemate (what a shock) and I'm really loathe to repeat it.

I don't recall once mentioning euthanasia, but fair enough on that. I'm not out to change minds, just offer my perspective.

I have the feeling this won't be the last time you have this kind of chit-chat with someone online, loathe it or not. In many message boards it's about as commonplace a debate as "Who's hotter?" or "Did you love/hate Twilight".

Edit: Oh, and has anyone considered that his drug use might have left him (Kurt) impaired? It can happen with legal prescriptions, and certainly with illegal substances.

 

[In Limbo]

I was going to make a whole speech about Kobain's ideals. However, you gave a better answer...

His ideals don't mean anything, he was a hypocrite. If he was so anti-label then he could have just stay on their indie label or started their own. He sold his ideals for money and fame. What's one of their most popular albums? MTV Unplugged, you cant sell out any harder then that.

He shot himself in the head. Dude paid the ultimate sacrifice for his ideals, in the end.

 

[theultimateend]

He is done with respect. They didn't have some zombie Kurt jammin on the guitar. Having an avatar playing other people's music doesn't demean his own deep meaningful music. I don't understand people. I just don't. If it were me I would be honored.

I'd have actually bought it if Zombie Kurt was in it .

I was going to make a whole speech about Kobain's ideals. However, you gave a better answer...

His ideals don't mean anything, he was a hypocrite. If he was so anti-label then he could have just stay on their indie label or started their own. He sold his ideals for money and fame. What's one of their most popular albums? MTV Unplugged, you cant sell out any harder then that.

He shot himself in the head. Dude paid the ultimate sacrifice for his ideals, in the end.

I always figured Courtney did it. But that was because I thought she was psychotic...still kind of is.

 

[Ninja_X]

I got a question!

If I take the first rock band, make a custom character that looks just like Kurt Cobain and name him Kurt Cobain, what is the difference between that and this?

Its just pixels either way right? I don't think a bunch of pixels shaped like Kurt Cobain care very much what they are playing.

I may make Kurt Cobain now and make him play J-pop just to piss you all off.

 

[BonsaiK]

Wow, some of you people need to chill.

Back on topic, and...

Grunge bands generally saw themselves as somehow being anti-mainstream (much like punk when it started) and the movement was in part a reaction to the commercial values of 80s rock music, and Nirvana was no exception to this, so the fact that the former members don't like Kurt being in Guitar Hero doesn't surprise me at all. It's a hypocritical stance for them to take though, given how much they've profited off music industry activity over the years. Especially Dave Grohl who only really started the joe-average-rock band Foo Fighters to keep his hand in the money pot after Nirvana broke up. Nirvana is as big a consumer product as Guitar Hero, and it was always the band's choice to either be involved in the big wheel of the music industry, or not. They should grow up and deal with it, especially Courtney, who should have read the paperwork instead of rolling it up and doing lines of coke with it. If you don't want to smell like shit, don't sleep in the pigpen.

 

[Meado]

I got a question!

If I take the first rock band, make a custom character that looks just like Kurt Cobain and name him Kurt Cobain, what is the difference between that and this?

Its just pixels either way right?

The difference is you wouldn't be profiting off of his image like Activision are (if it made a difference in the sales, that is). Me thinks that Cobain wouldn't have had a problem with that.

 

[Ninja_X]

I got a question!

If I take the first rock band, make a custom character that looks just like Kurt Cobain and name him Kurt Cobain, what is the difference between that and this?

Its just pixels either way right?

The difference is you wouldn't be profiting off of his image like Activision are (if it made a difference in the sales, that is). Me thinks that Cobain wouldn't have had a problem with that.

I guess I don't understand what Kurt was so upset about in the first place.

So what is music is commercial? That just means allot of people listen right? Who cares is some corporation is making money off your music, that didn't stop other bands from making beautiful music.

"Don't stop Believing" is a great song, doesn't matter if you hear it on your mp3 player or MTV right?

 

[TMAN10112]

I have to side with Dave Grohl and Krist Novoselic (and technically Courtney Love) on this one.

Courtney's reaction may have been uncalled for, but it just............doesn't seem right (if not flat-out disrespectful) having Kurt in some of the songs in that game (For example; in 4:07-4:30/just about all of this video), especially without the consent of his friends and family.

Also:

and dammit, why aren't more people pissed about johnny cash?

Wait wait wait, they're putting Johnny Cash is in the game too?

 

[Low Key]

Oh, boo fucking hoo. Cobain's music has been played religiously on radio stations since he killed himself, yet I don't hear the band members making a big deal about how Nirvana is basically commerical now. Nope, it's a paycheck to them, why should they give a shit? But oh my god, Kurt Cobain's image is used in a game and all hell breaks loose.

 

[theklng]

i never mixed you up with that other guy...

And that's all I need to see to realise you're talking out your arse now, considering you said earlier that... shall I just quote you again?

i argue that if you had looked up nirvana's drummer instead of asking cockily whether he was in nirvana or not, you'd have a mentality that would be more prone for seeking answers to questions without asking people first. in our day and age as intelligence becomes more prevalent between people and nations, intelligence should be right about mandatory.

yeah, i didn't mix up you and the other guy. i showed you by his example how you could do things better. i am genuinely amazed that you can't tell the difference, since i explicitly argue that it's the MENTALITY and not the EXAMPLE that should be changed (again, the mentality is an abstraction of the example). you'd have to be either quite thick or a troll by this point. i'm leaning to the former since you STILL don't have any idea about what an abstraction is.

Also:

this is further emphasized when you think i actually said that knowing about nirvana 'would stop wars and such'.

You did:

Look, we can understand that they did some good stuff for music, especially grunge, but if we don't have any interest in Nirvana, why should we have to care?

and why you should care? look buddy, if the whole world started caring just a little more, we'd not have half the problem with ignorance, wars etc.

You're done. Goodbye.

[/quote]

my word, are you blind or dyslexic? do you otherwise not understand the words that are written on the screen? i mean i've been trying to act rational here all the time, and you still don't seem to see the abstraction at work here. as you can (or can't see), i never said directly that knowing the band members of nirvana could prevent wars; i again used the ABSTRACTION trying to show you that. 'if the world starting caring' does not equal 'if the world knew nirvana'.

again, nice try if you were trolling. if not, you seriously need help with your learning/understanding disorder.

 

[TechNoFear]

I wonder who's lawyer is in trouble for their incorrect interpretation/advice, Love's or Activisions.

 

[ReverseEngineered]

I guess I can see both sides of the argument.

On the one hand, it is kinda creepy and unnatural to see a dead person brought back to life through computer graphics. It's also really strange seeing them play music that they wouldn't normally have played, or otherwise have their strings pulled to do whatever the developer sees fit. I suppose you could say the same for any life-like characterization, but it's that much creepier when it's a deceased person who doesn't even get a say in the use of his image.

Yet, there are tons of gamers who want this sort of thing. We don't want to just rock out like Kurt Cobain, we want to rock out AS Kurt Cobain. It's amazing to see him brought back to life and quite enthralling to be playing as him. I mean, really, who hasn't jammed some air guitar while imagining they were a famous artist (some other artist, not themselves having become famous)?

So, really, I can see why some people might be put off by this, but there's a lot of demand for it. As long as it doesn't come down to something more unethical -- like having Kurt Cobain's avatar make statements that he never made in real life, like promoting a product -- then let the people have what they desire. Admittedly, just by appearing in the game, it could be construed as endorcing the product, but that's more of a norm than a necessity.

 

[Valiance]

People are stupid, what's new.

On the one hand, I can sort of understand their point, but they should understand by now that Kurt is somewhat of a rock legend and he's going to be used to do this shit whether they like it or not. I think the irony is that he was always against this sort of shit from the beginning and his band got too big and became this sort of thing.

That's most likely what they're upset about. That he was against this kind of commercialization of his music/art/whatever, and Courtney is making an ass load of money off it.

 

[danosaurus]

Haha, yea he was the drummer.

Oh right, I've only ever thought of him as being in the Foo Fighters. But then again I don't really like Nirvana so I wouldn't have known.

He's on Queens of the stone age too. His the drummer again there.

Yea, I checked out his Wikipedia article, he also played drums for Nine Inch Nails at one point.

Yah, he recorded the drums for 'With Teeth', there's some crazy talent in that albums drumming but not enough to drop my jaw.
I think it was more of a selling point than anything.

NEW IMPROVED NIN - WITH 20% MOAR GROHL!

In regards to the OT - Gimme a break, Kurt was a rock god and if Courtney signed the contract in one of her mid-morning pill induced comas then tough cookies.