Former Nirvana Members "Dismayed" Over Guitar Hero 5

[theklng]

i don't know why you defend that other guy, or why you defend ignorance. it seems like the most counter productive thing to do - unless you are satisfied with world as it is today. the problem is that people like you think it is not necessary to think. that it's good enough to just do whatever the hell you do and like. i don't know about you, but i at least have enough respect for my fellow man that i can try to change bits of the world one by one. what have you ever done for anyone beside yourself, your friends and your family?

Ok, let's cut the crap to keep these posts down to size.

I believe people should be able to choose what they learn about after school. If they want to learn about the history of music (as an example), fine. But if they choose to learn nothing extra and just live their life as they are, that's fine too. But what I've read in your posts is that you want everyone to be forced to learn everything. You also seem to think I'm against change when I'm really pro-choice. I think people need to have full control over their life, instead of being told they have to learn something unnecessary by some random guy on the internet.

And that's what it is; unnecessary. Do you really think that Dave Grohl is going to be remembered in 500 years on the same level as Mozart? Is knowing that he was in one band for a few years going to save lives? At best, he might inspire someone to take up drumming, but the people who would be affected like that were probably already into music, so something else would have inspired them anyway. Plus, how many do you think were inspired to become musicians and promptly learned they sucked at it? How many people sunk thousands of dollers/pounds into learning music, only to end up stacking shelves (if they're lucky)? Yeah, that was really "the first step towards betterment", wasn't it?

PS: I told you not to bring racism into this because you are now putting the fact that one guy didn't know who Nirvana's drummer was on par with the slave trade. Then you added "children in africa starving", "soldiers getting killed daily", and "people losing money or even their life to a random mugger" to the list. Dude, it's fucking Nirvana.

this just proves that you don't get my point at all. i'm not talking about "fucking nirvana" at this point, i'm talking about the abstraction from that - that the art of learning should be taught to everyone. i've already rebutted all of those points in your goddamn post, will you fucking stop and try to listen for once instead of saying the same bullshit over and over again.

let me try and cut it out for you as much as i can:

i argue that if you had looked up nirvana's drummer instead of asking cockily whether he was in nirvana or not, you'd have a mentality that would be more prone for seeking answers to questions without asking people first. in our day and age as intelligence becomes more prevalent between people and nations, intelligence should be right about mandatory.

my bet is that within some 50 years from now, we'll not have half as much manual labor left. for those people that are stuck with manual labor, growing up to become industrial workmen or whose children are steered towards that direction; they'll be on a dying path. by that time, if you will want a job, you'll have to be at least intelligent enough to sit in some sort of management.

these two points alone should be worth considering, but in case you don't understand what i am saying here, i'll just repeat myself real quick:

you argue that learning doesn't matter, since a person should only learn what a person should like. i argue that this type of thinking promotes prejudice and ignorance - as witnessed historically (see: the bit about racism). you argue that the concrete example of music history won't be valued. i argue that it is an example of learning; and that learning should be taught and curiosity should be valued, since this is how our society and civilization develops (see: above).

 

[atv_chic_18]

I see every side of the arguement but Courtney Love is known to be very sue happy with anything involving Kurt. However the amazing thing is, anything that involves his image making her money she's okay with..I mean after all she held a huge auction over a decade after his death just so she could gain money.As somebody who grew up listening to Nirvana and Foo Fighters and loving the both, I don't think it's right to let Cobain to be played. But if we go that way then the Beatles and any other dead musician should not be included either.

Or it at least should be confirmed with the heir or heriess of that persons estate. However Love sold Cobain's estate and she apparently signed the contract so that flaw is her own. Sure she's known for Hole, but let's face it if it weren't for Cobain she'd have faded out many years ago. I think everything is solely just for publicity on her part to keep herself out there and of course to gain her some cash because she obviously can't get it anywhere else.

 

[Icehearted]

It's been said, a lot, but this really really doesn't strike me as something Kurt would have wanted happening anyway. I'm glad the living members of Nirvana have finally spoken up about their own thoughts.

 

[HyenaThePirate]

It's been said, a lot, but this really really doesn't strike me as something Kurt would have wanted happening anyway. I'm glad the living members of Nirvana have finally spoken up about their own thoughts.

Who knows WHAT kurt would have thought...
it's been 15 something years since he died. People change, they go through phases. The beatles changed dramatically over the course of their career. Pearl Jam.. Hell, 1980s-90s METALLICA would never have wanted to be in a game like Guitar hero.
As people grow older, their views change.
It stands to reason that had Kurt lived, his views would have changed, his opinions, his experiences. So it's impossible to say that he would even be as REVERED as he is today if he had lived to continue making music. Hell he might be on dancing with the stars.
who knows.

 

[Icehearted]

From what I understand about him he was not fond of the "corporate machine" and that it was part of why he killed himself. So I was just drawing my own conclusions. There are some interviews where people that worked with him talked about how he was often going against what his sponsors/label wanted, because he was more interested in experimenting with his music rather than following trends. GH5 exemplifies the very thing he seemed to have strong feelings against.

I also doubt he had a plastic toy guitar and video games in mind when he wrote "In Bloom" or "Heart-Shaped Box".

 

[Ilovechocolatemilk]

Why isn't anyone directing their ire towards Courtney Love? Of all the players involved, it seems as though she is the MOST responsible for this fuck up. It's funny how people in this thread have said that "well since she's a heroin addict, she can't be responsible for her actions," as if that counts as justification. I suppose if I get piss drunk and kill seven people with my car, I wouldn't be responsible for their deaths, right?


Watching Courtney Love do anything related to Nirvana is like watching a dog take a dump and get angry as he steps in his own pile of shit. You reap what you sow. This entire thing is a non-issue and I believe that non-depressed Cobain would have been laughing at this alongside the rest of us.

 

[Amnestic]

Why isn't anyone directing their ire towards Courtney Love? Of all the players involved, it seems as though she is the MOST responsible for this fuck up. It's funny how people in this thread have said that "well since she's a heroin addict, she can't be responsible for her actions," as if that counts as justification. I suppose if I get piss drunk and kill seven people with my car, I wouldn't be responsible for their deaths, right?

Depends on how famous and/or rich you happen to be.

Sad, but not entirely false.

 

[Charli]

I honestly don't care what happens either way, Guitar hero to me has always about hitting stupid coloured buttons in sequence to classic rock and looking like a douche doing it for the amusement of friends.

I don't care if Kurt Cobain is dressed up in a clown suit rocking out to Elvis surrounded by hideously dressed J-pop accompanying singers in the background frankly. He's dead, he didn't die very gracefully, and I think the Beatles probably deserve more respect thusly. Go start a crusade on their behalf.

 

[Icehearted]

I honestly don't care what happens either way, Guitar hero to me has always about hitting stupid coloured buttons in sequence to classic rock and looking like a douche doing it for the amusement of friends.

I don't care if Kurt Cobain is dressed up in a clown suit rocking out to Elvis surrounded by hideously dressed J-pop accompanying singers in the background frankly. He's dead, he didn't die very gracefully, and I think the Beatles probably deserve more respect thusly. Go start a crusade on their behalf.

Harsh. Ever consider that suicide isn't easy, and that the people that do it suffer too? It's not as though he did it to dodge credit card debt or child support or something trivial. Some of us just aren't fixable.

 

[Meado]

i argue that if you had looked up nirvana's drummer instead of asking cockily whether he was in nirvana or not, you'd have a mentality that would be more prone for seeking answers to questions without asking people first. in our day and age as intelligence becomes more prevalent between people and nations, intelligence should be right about mandatory.

Ummm, I didn't ask, someone else did. But I stuck up for him because I felt people were biting his head off for not knowing one solitary piece of insignificant information. Yes, he could have looked it up if they really needed confirmation, but that doesn't justify the way you reacted, by calling him ignorant and unintelligent. That's troll behaviour.

And you still don't get what I'm saying. Knowledge should be mandatory. I'm agreeing with you there. But it should be compulsory knowledge of important things, not music history. You keep trying to drag the subject elsewhere, into racism and war, but that's never been part of the problem. You said he was ignoring Nirvana's achievements, as if he was actively pretending they didn't exist, when really he was just saying that he didn't know quite as much as everyone else due to not being a fan. Dragging the slave trade into it isn't going to hide the fact that you acted inapropriately and I called you on it.

my bet is that within some 50 years from now, we'll not have half as much manual labor left. for those people that are stuck with manual labor, growing up to become industrial workmen or whose children are steered towards that direction; they'll be on a dying path. by that time, if you will want a job, you'll have to be at least intelligent enough to sit in some sort of management.

Still has nothing to do with someone not knowing a piece of useless trivia. Stop trying to change the subject.

you argue that learning doesn't matter, since a person should only learn what a person should like. i argue that... *snipped for pointlessness*

And now I'm convinced you're not even reading my posts. I have said countless times that learning is important, as long as it is about important things like history (including that of racism, sexism, and war), politics, science, language, health care, arithmatic, geography, and religion to name a few. It should be compusory. In fact, it is, since you spend many years in school learning just these things. But the history of music doesn't matter as much, so it should be optional. From what I've seen, you need to learn to seperate what matters from what doesn't matter, else you'll spend years learning something completely useless instead of something that could improve your life.

I'm going to say it again since you seem to have a problem with long posts.
History, politics, science, language, health care, arithmatic, geography, religion, plus others - IMPORTANT! LEARN!
Music and art - NOT AS IMPORTANT! UNLIKELY TO SAVE YOUR LIFE! STRICTLY OPTIONAL! DON'T MURDER SOMEONE BECAUSE THEY DON'T KNOW AS MUCH ABOUT IT AS YOU!

 

[Paragon Fury]

So this isn't actually over broken contracts and legal issues, but over celebs and druggies being self-important, pretentious dicks?

Would've figured as much.

EDIT: Upon Googling "Courtney Love", I've hereby decided that with a little make-up, she could easily be the Joker from the Dark Knight.

Minus the incredible acting, anyways.

 

[theklng]

Ummm, I didn't ask, someone else did. But I stuck up for him because I felt people were biting his head off for not knowing one solitary piece of insignificant information. Yes, he could have looked it up if they really needed confirmation, but that doesn't justify the way you reacted, by calling him ignorant and unintelligent. That's troll behaviour.

yeah no, i didn't call him ignorant or unintelligent. i reacted that way because i am tired of people not knowing how to use google and or wikipedia to get wiser, and instead try to fire off 'jokes' based on ignorance. you don't seem to understand that i am talking about the abstraction from what he said, NOT WHAT HE SAID IN CONTEXT. i questioned the entire premise of having a culture wherein people are congratulated on this type of behavior. and for as long as you don't understand that, no real discussion can ensue.

besides, calling me a troll on my behavior is outrageous. that i am curmudgeonly in behavior does not equate that i do it for the fun of it; i actually try to teach people something useful. that people for the most part refuse to listen (see: yourself) is a different discussion altogether.

Still has nothing to do with someone not knowing a piece of useless trivia. Stop trying to change the subject.

my word, i really can't get through to you. what makes you think that the subject was changed at all? we're still using the same ABSTRACTION and we're still in a state of semi discussion (not counting that statements are apparently ignored).

that you think i am changing the subject again leads me to think that you don't understand my point, because you apparently don't know what an abstraction is. feel free to google it.

And now I'm convinced you're not even reading my posts.

i've read everything so far you've posted; and even more so, i have tried to explain to you why you can't grasp my point. refer to my above statement about abstractions.

i'm going to stop this here, because i am quite frankly getting tired of trying to discuss with someone who is oblivious, chooses to be oblivious or otherwise cannot understand what i am saying at this point.

you have so far said nothing that justifies your point over mine, but you have continuously tried to either undermine my arguments or otherwise told me they are irrelevant. this leads me to believe that we never really had a discussion since you either don't want or can't discuss within the terms a discussion dictates. so all in all: thanks for wasting my time. the next time you stand up for someone, maybe consider having a point for when you do.

 

[Charli]

I honestly don't care what happens either way, Guitar hero to me has always about hitting stupid coloured buttons in sequence to classic rock and looking like a douche doing it for the amusement of friends.

I don't care if Kurt Cobain is dressed up in a clown suit rocking out to Elvis surrounded by hideously dressed J-pop accompanying singers in the background frankly. He's dead, he didn't die very gracefully, and I think the Beatles probably deserve more respect thusly. Go start a crusade on their behalf.

Harsh. Ever consider that suicide isn't easy, and that the people that do it suffer too? It's not as though he did it to dodge credit card debt or child support or something trivial. Some of us just aren't fixable.

I've met people suffering and surviving with worse. I may be harsh, but only after the fact. I'm not going to condemn those contemplating the possibilty but I only hold any respect for those that try their hardest for those that care about them and push through that.

Suicide is extremely selfish alot of the time and those rare cases that exist where it isn't are so scarce they're a tiny blip on the radar. Those that are left behind I are the only victims of the suffering that I see any evidence of.

 

[AWC Viper]

i thought that would be an honor. i mean if i were a singer that got in a guitar hero game i would be pretty happy.

 

[Hyperactiveman]

As long as they make it so that you can only see/play Cobain when playing a Nirvana song then I don't see a problem in it what so ever. Some deceased musicians have been in rhythm/music games before like Jimi Hendrix (Guitar Hero World Tour) and John Lennon (Rock Band: Beatles) so that shouldn't be an issue.

The really issue is leaving out certain artists that needed the recognition and respect they deserved such as James Newsted, Dave Mustaine and Cliff Burton who all should have been playable in Guitar Hero Metallica. Also having the avatars and GH characters playing at the same time looks really stupid!!

 

[Meado]

yeah no, i didn't call him ignorant or unintelligent. i reacted that way because i am tired of people not knowing how to use google and or wikipedia to get wiser, and instead try to fire off 'jokes' based on ignorance. you don't seem to understand that i am talking about the abstraction from what he said, NOT WHAT HE SAID IN CONTEXT. i questioned the entire premise of having a culture wherein people are congratulated on this type of behavior. and for as long as you don't understand that, no real discussion can ensue.

An abstaction? Really? Do you really think I'm going to believe that? Smells like a cop-out. Shall I explain why?

All I originally did was point out that there was a difference between not knowing about something and ignoring it altogether. You then replied by saying I was self-contradictory (probably due to mixing me and Cpt_Obvious up, which is simple human error and something I'm very forgiving about) before saying that we should care more about Nirvana because it would prevent wars and such. That's not an abstraction, that's complete bullshit.

you have so far said nothing that justifies your point over mine, but you have continuously tried to either undermine my arguments or otherwise told me they are irrelevant. this leads me to believe that we never really had a discussion since you either don't want or can't discuss within the terms a discussion dictates. so all in all: thanks for wasting my time. the next time you stand up for someone, maybe consider having a point for when you do.

I have not been trying to prove my point over yours, because they are one and the same. Knowledge is important. That's it. For all your rambling (sorry, your "abstraction"), you have done nothing but say the same thing as me while ignoring the only problem I ever had with you; Your reaction to his posts. Should I remind you what you said in response to his polite question?
"getting cocky with ignorant statements is not a great way to show off what is supposed to be your intelligence."
That's calling him cocky, ignorant, and unintelligent. Regardless of your feelings towards today's modern culture of rewarding unintelligence, acting like a douche is just inappropriate, and that is what I find fault with. For someone who seems obsessed with improving yourself, you need a lot of work on your manners.

If you choose to end this because you realise you can't escape from the cause of this whole debate, that's fine by me. I'm not one to drag this out when it's over.

 

[DeathWyrmNexus]

In all fairness, he is a musician in a music game and isn't the only dead rocker unlockable. And the OP has a point about sharing a stage with Johnny Cash. Hell, that would be epic for me.

 

[SendMeNoodz84]

Dave Grohl was in Nirvana?

Hopefully this'll get sorted out without too much fuss.

Paying homage to your name I see.

 

[theklng]

If you choose to end this because you realise you can't escape from the cause of this whole debate, that's fine by me. I'm not one to drag this out when it's over.

weren't you the one who said, "you can choose to believe me or not, your choice?"

All I originally did was point out that there was a difference between not knowing about something and ignoring it altogether. You then replied by saying I was self-contradictory (probably due to mixing me and Cpt_Obvious up, which is simple human error and something I'm very forgiving about) before saying that we should care more about Nirvana because it would prevent wars and such. That's not an abstraction, that's complete bullshit.

okay, i said i would give it up but frankly this is just bullshit of a too high caliber and my personal detector is just going off.

i never mixed you up with that other guy, because i can tell the difference between someone who utters a faulty statement and someone who would defend a faulty statement to death. i'll forgive you for the insolence of thinking that i mistook you for the other guy, however.

you see, i did from the beginning mean abstraction, otherwise i wouldn't have had to resort with such a harsh tongue now would i? this isn't a cop out of any kind, but then again i wouldn't expect you to understand since you have trouble understanding what an abstraction is in the first place. this is further emphasized when you think i actually said that knowing about nirvana 'would stop wars and such'.

i have a few suggestions for you; treat this as a tutorial.

#1: go to dictionary.com
#2: write in 'abstraction'
#3: read definition
#4: write in 'ignorance'
#5: read definition
#6: contemplate (if this is even possible for someone such as you; i have my doubts based on your writing)
#7: stop acting like an idiot

let it be known that i in no way resign from my point. i'll take up a discussion as soon as you stop acting like a nosy defender of cocky statements and start acting like rational human being. on second thought, when or if that happens, there won't be any reason for a discussion at all since what i said is also the rational perspective of this discussion. come to think of it, what you're doing right now is something that could be considered excellent trolling. if that is the case, well played. if not, refer to point #7 in the tutorial.

 

[Meado]

i never mixed you up with that other guy...

And that's all I need to see to realise you're talking out your arse now, considering you said earlier that... shall I just quote you again?

i argue that if you had looked up nirvana's drummer instead of asking cockily whether he was in nirvana or not, you'd have a mentality that would be more prone for seeking answers to questions without asking people first. in our day and age as intelligence becomes more prevalent between people and nations, intelligence should be right about mandatory.

Also:

this is further emphasized when you think i actually said that knowing about nirvana 'would stop wars and such'.

You did:

Look, we can understand that they did some good stuff for music, especially grunge, but if we don't have any interest in Nirvana, why should we have to care?

and why you should care? look buddy, if the whole world started caring just a little more, we'd not have half the problem with ignorance, wars etc.

You're done. Goodbye.