Former Spore Dev Still Thinks the Wii is "a Piece of Sh*t"

[VinnyKings]

Instead of bagging on some other companies concentrate on your actual job. Maybe that way you're games won't be as shit...

 

[cobra_ky]

"Game design and gameplay is not separable from CPU power," he said. "You can do more interesting games with a faster CPU."

What utter bullshit. It's like saying you need a WACOM tablet to make compelling art.

 

[cobra_ky]

Of course it has some good games, but the ratio of good to bad is TERRIBLE compared to the 360 and PS3

this is only relevant if you plan on buying and playing every game ever released on a console.

there's enough good Wii games to occupy my spare time. That's all i need from it.

It's true. I mean, with the release of the move an Kinect (which i REALLY want to wish out of existence, stop the motion controls PLEASE!) the Wii is now the worst at what it does best (And for this gift it feels blessed) and what it did was never really a promising concept to begin with. On a side note, the one game that I really wanted for the Wii (Besides Brawl) No More Heroes was released for the PS3 in Japan, but it's never coming to the U.S. because of the Wii. Furthering my hate.

If it's not a promising concept, then why are Microsoft and Sony ripping it off now?

 

[Okysho]

Pieces of news like this always make me laugh. Sure, the Wii has always been an underwhelming piece of tech that sits at about the same level of power as the GCN, but what is all that power good for if you can't make a fun game even with all the power in the world at your fingertips? FFXIII proved rather infamously that your game could look amazing graphically but still be shallow and lack immersion. Spore also proved rather infamously that amazing game concepts could be swindled by short-sighted gameplay goals. Super Mario Galaxy proved that you could take something good and polish it to be even better, even when no one could imagine that such a thing was possible. Nintendo made a gamble that people didn't really need high tech hardware to enjoy a video game, whereas Sony crammed the latest and greatest HD tech into the PS3, and look where the console race has ended up. The PS3 was just too much money for anyone to rationalize spending, even if a Blu-ray player was just as expensive. The XBox 360 experience wasn't complete without a wireless adaptor and a Gold subscription to XBox Live. Now HD tech is much cheaper than before and every console has a relatively even price tag once you figure in the peripherals, but the Wii definitely picked Nintendo up from off the ground after the mediocre performance of the GCN, so they can now pursue riskier tech in the form of the 3DS. Whether or not the actual hardware is expensive or not doesn't matter, but again, the quality of games injected into the platform are really what count. In the end, I think a lot of people have lost sight about why we all love videogames: Because they are fun to play. Of course, everyone's definition of fun varies, but some people in the world don't enjoy dual analog fragging, while others don't enjoy sitting through movies dotted with occasional button presses, and there are also people who don't enjoy waggling minigames. Even so, someone else certainly enjoys a well-crafted game in any of these genres, so why do we piss all over someone else's party when the real villain of gaming would be the shovelware? You know, the crap that we always circle in highlighter on the Wii, yet conveniently forget the truckload of barely playable "games" that undulated over the PS2 and even the XBox 360 (though there is noticeably less on the PS3, I admit). Bad games are everything: It is never the fault of the tech the games are played on. Calling out a console for the flaws of greedy, soulless shovelware developers is just childish.

This, right here.

Come on, just accept the fact that people don't have the same tastes as you do.

 

[Analogfantasies]

Of course it has some good games, but the ratio of good to bad is TERRIBLE compared to the 360 and PS3

this is only relevant if you plan on buying and playing every game ever released on a console.

there's enough good Wii games to occupy my spare time. That's all i need from it.

It's true. I mean, with the release of the move an Kinect (which i REALLY want to wish out of existence, stop the motion controls PLEASE!) the Wii is now the worst at what it does best (And for this gift it feels blessed) and what it did was never really a promising concept to begin with. On a side note, the one game that I really wanted for the Wii (Besides Brawl) No More Heroes was released for the PS3 in Japan, but it's never coming to the U.S. because of the Wii. Furthering my hate.

If it's not a promising concept, then why are Microsoft and Sony ripping it off now?

Technically speaking, Nintendo ripped off the idea for the Wii from Sony. Sony already had the EyeToy, but it didn't have many games made for it, and the technology wasn't really good at the time. Nintendo improved upon the idea by giving an actual controller so you had buttons to press while gesturing. Sony saw merit in the controller based solution, while the Kinect is just a much more advanced version of the EyeToy.

 

[duchaked]

hahaha...
sorry. with dignity and respect, just keep it to yourself...even if it's true.
(okay well it's true but...ah ya know)

 

[AsurasFinest]

SO who did ruin Spore?

This case is to big for me
I think we need to call in the Hardly Boys

 

[Killerbunny001]

He is so right with the Wii being crap from a technological stand point and the opinion that slow CPUs hinder the process of making good game mechanics is shared by many designers. So where is the problem exactly ? The lack of diplomacy in his original statement ? A man`s entire career should not hang in the balance just for that.

Would it have sounded any better if he had used this statement ?

"The Wii has the hardware equivalent of a 1999 PC."

EDIT: Make that 1998 to be more exact.

 

[Little Duck]

Wait wait wait wait.

This guy ruined spore from what it could have been (something spricking awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8dvMDFOFnA)? And he slagged off a nintendo console, you know, the one with the die hard fan base?

Bugger me he's stupid.

 

[OrokuSaki]

It's true. I mean, with the release of the move an Kinect (which i REALLY want to wish out of existence, stop the motion controls PLEASE!) the Wii is now the worst at what it does best (And for this gift it feels blessed) and what it did was never really a promising concept to begin with. On a side note, the one game that I really wanted for the Wii (Besides Brawl) No More Heroes was released for the PS3 in Japan, but it's never coming to the U.S. because of the Wii. Furthering my hate.

[/quote]If it's not a promising concept, then why are Microsoft and Sony ripping it off now?[/quote]


I didn't say it wasn't a PROFITABLE concept, I said it wasn't a PROMISING concept. The difference is that yes, the motion controls are a clever gimmick that will corner the market on small children and people who are "Too old to keep up with these newfangled gaming contraptions" but ultimately, i don't see a real future in it. Look at your average hardcore gamer, now do you really think games like WoW would have MILLIONS of users if they made people flail their arms wildly for exp? It's a wonder if they can LIFT their arms! Anyways, it just seems like motion controls re the ULTIMATE dead end to games as a whole.
P.S. sorry, quote thing didn't work since i shortened it, so i added an excess spacing to separate the opinions.

 

[Delusibeta]

"Game design and gameplay is not separable from CPU power," he said. "You can do more interesting games with a faster CPU.

GOG called, they want to tell him that's garbage. It's more of a case that most major developers can't be arsed doing more interesting games on a limited technical budget (oh, hello World of Goo, VVVVVV, Bit.Trip Beat etc).

I didn't say it wasn't a PROFITABLE concept, I said it wasn't a PROMISING concept. The difference is that yes, the motion controls are a clever gimmick that will corner the market on small children and people who are "Too old to keep up with these newfangled gaming contraptions" but ultimately, i don't see a real future in it. Look at your average hardcore gamer, now do you really think games like WoW would have MILLIONS of users if they made people flail their arms wildly for exp? It's a wonder if they can LIFT their arms! Anyways, it just seems like motion controls re the ULTIMATE dead end to games as a whole.
P.S. sorry, quote thing didn't work since i shortened it, so i added an excess spacing to separate the opinions.

Also, motion controls are going to be the centre of the next generation of consoles: the Wii's success and Kinect's initial success has ensured it.

 

[Blimey]

The fact that this is so horribly old is getting on my tits. It's like watching a big retard convention.

"Ohhh the Wii sucks blar rar rar."

"Well the 360 is a big piece of shit on a stick!"

"Rawr the PS3 can suck my balls trolololol."

Fucking hell people, grow up already. This is worse then watching 2 starving homeless people fight to the death over a breadcrumb.

 

[KrazyKain]

so... you cant make a good game without monster cpu eh?

world of goo, cavestory and minecraft say hi.


it's idiots like this who think that all you need to do is throw money at a game and it will be good that are ruining the game's industry

 

[JourneyThroughHell]

I don't really like teh Wii and while I think he went too far in his first statement, I fully support him in his thesis. It's really unpleasant to be called the "asshole who ruined Spore" by the people who know nothing about the situation or the fact that whatever Hecker suggested, Wright had to approve.

It's even more unpleasant to be personally attacked by a large group of people who can't handle the fact you don't like something they worship.

The Wii is pretty bad. The technology is underwhelming. But the games are worse. There's casual and there's embarrassing.

ಠ_ಠ

I was going to list like several dozen great Wii exclusives and then watched him squirm as he tries to explain them away... but that's probably a more appropriate response.

Do it, then. Wherever you want - in PM, if you don't want to encourage console wars, or in this thread, or wherever.

 

[boholikeu]

So is SpyParty so advanced that it couldn't run on a Wii (not including graphical upgrades of course)? Because otherwise he's a pretty big hypocrite.

 

[Electrogecko]

Fanboys of any kind are terrible. I also agree about the wii.

The Wii is pretty bad. The technology is underwhelming. But the games are worse. There's casual and there's embarrassing.

But this specifically just comes across as fanboyism or whatever

"'Game design and gameplay is not separable from CPU power,' he said. 'You can do more interesting games with a faster CPU. Nintendo made an underpowered platform, relative to what you could have made at the time.'"
This may be true, but polygon pushing power is negligible to the overall quality of a game, (especially after a point that was passed with this generation) and that is the direction that 99% of developers are going in. There are very few actual gameplay elements that have appeared on 360 and PS3 that couldn't be done on the Wii with adequate quality. The only one I can think of is Portal, (which, incidentally, is by far the best game I've seen on the 360....by far) and even that game would've been vastly improved by Prime 3's control scheme.

Nintendo's goal with the Wii was to expand their consumer base and thus expand the acceptance of the medium, (a philosophy that the Escapist wholly and openly embraces and encourages) and in this regard, they have succeeded spectacularly. This wouldn't have been possible with an extremely expensive console. It doesn't just appeal to kids- it has universal appeal- and even if it did, hating a console because it appeals to a younger generation is extremely juvenile and insecure. It would be like hating Disney or Pixar.

The 360/PS3's power encourages developers to spend a shitload of time making their game as visually crisp and detailed as possible. (or as photorealistic as possible- a much too common and popular choice among developers and consumers alike) While this is fine, what's much more important than graphical detail is artistic detail and gameplay mechanics, and games on the Wii like MP3 and MG are some of the best examples of this I know of.

I may be a Nintendo fan, but I really do try to enjoy every game I pick up as much as possible (because why the hell wouldn't I?) No game that I've played on 360 except Portal and Limbo (neither of which are even a full game- lol) have hit home for me as hard as Mario Galaxy 1+2, Metroid Prime 3, Twilight Princess, Mario Kart Wii, Okami (yes I know it's originally for PS2), Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Super Paper Mario have. (and I've played all the shooters- GoW, CoD, Halo- all fine, and the the off-shooters (no pun intended) Mass Effect and Bioshock- both amazing) Call me a fanboy all you want, but I believe Nintendo is the best video game hardware and software developer in the world, and I would pick my Wii over my 360 any day. (didn't even mention all the fantastic games on Virtual Console that many are experiencing for the first time)

 

[Treblaine]

I don't really like teh Wii and while I think he went too far in his first statement, I fully support him in his thesis. It's really unpleasant to be called the "asshole who ruined Spore" by the people who know nothing about the situation or the fact that whatever Hecker suggested, Wright had to approve.

It's even more unpleasant to be personally attacked by a large group of people who can't handle the fact you don't like something they worship.

The Wii is pretty bad. The technology is underwhelming. But the games are worse. There's casual and there's embarrassing.

ಠ_ಠ

I was going to list like several dozen great Wii exclusives and then watched him squirm as he tries to explain them away... but that's probably a more appropriate response.

Do it, then. Wherever you want - in PM, if you don't want to encourage console wars, or in this thread, or wherever.

Fair enough, but I will try to be reflective on my position of defending the Wii. I'm reconsidering how much I am really anticipating getting the system after taking stock of how much games cost and how much I can spend and also just how much time I have to play games.

First let me say I wouldn't value Wii over the PS3 or Xbox 360 or anything this gen nor most of the previous generation. I'd rather have a gamecube over a wii. But I don't think the Wii is a "3DO" or equivalent... it has some worth. And that's in the exclusives you can't get anywhere else:

-Mario Galaxy
-Mario Galaxy 2 (Ok, an "expansion" sequel... I suppose really only for those who 100% Galaxy)
-Super Smash Bros Brawl (though Melee was perfection... so do I really need Brawl?)
-Metroid Prime 3 (final in the series, haven't finished Prime 2 yet but I can't leave the prime series)
-Zelda Twilight Princess (unless you can find a SUPER RARE gamecube copy... I did *smug-face* )
-No More heroes (then again, there is that HD PS3 port with Move functionality in 2011)
-No More Heroes 2 (eugh... a very similar sequel, NMH1's value was it's originality...)
-Mario Kart Wii (definitely not hardcore, but probably the best split-screen racer for parties)
-Loads of co-op rail shooters like:
+Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles
+Darksider Chronicles
+House of the Dead: overkill
+Dead Space: Extraction (but included in PS3 release of Dead Space 2)
+Link's Crossbow Training

So overall, I'd say why I REALLY want a Wii is for Mario Galaxy (2, only when/if I do 100% of Galaxy 1) and the upcoming Zelda Skyward Sword. Oh, and when I finally finish Metroid Prime 2 I'll want to play Prime 3 eventually.

But I think the only thing that'll make me fork out for the Wii is if I could play co-op "party" games. I play a LOT of Hardcore games, online competitive and co-operative and I realise sometimes how incredibly alienating it can be for non gamers. I'd like to play games with my non-gaming family and friends.

Motion based racers and Rail-shooters are perfect for that. And Mario+Zelda+Metroid would be for me-time on the console.

But that's not the situation. Maybe next year where I will likely be in shared digs I'll fork out for a Wii, justify it as being for he benefit of the house, maybe in time for Skyward Sword and a (hopefully inevitable) price cut down undercutting Kinect.

 

[Raziel_Likes_Souls]

While 85% of what's on the Wii is shit, I'm not going to condemn it as a horrible console. Because there's still NMH, Mad World, CvT, The Trauma series, etc. Don't get me wrong, that ain't enough to save it, considering all those games are Japanese, and the only good Western game I know of on the system was that remake of Bully.

Anyways, who even remembers Spore? I sure as hell don't.

 

[Treblaine]

Fanboys of any kind are terrible. I also agree about the wii.

The Wii is pretty bad. The technology is underwhelming. But the games are worse. There's casual and there's embarrassing.

But this specifically just comes across as fanboyism or whatever

"'Game design and gameplay is not separable from CPU power,' he said. 'You can do more interesting games with a faster CPU. Nintendo made an underpowered platform, relative to what you could have made at the time.'"
This may be true, but polygon pushing power is negligible to the overall quality of a game, (especially after a point that was passed with this generation) and that is the direction that 99% of developers are going in. There are very few actual gameplay elements that have appeared on 360 and PS3 that couldn't be done on the Wii with adequate quality. The only one I can think of is Portal, (which, incidentally, is by far the best game I've seen on the 360....by far) and even that game would've been vastly improved by Prime 3's control scheme.

Nintendo's goal with the Wii was to expand their consumer base and thus expand the acceptance of the medium, (a philosophy that the Escapist wholly and openly embraces and encourages) and in this regard, they have succeeded spectacularly. This wouldn't have been possible with an extremely expensive console. It doesn't just appeal to kids- it has universal appeal- and even if it did, hating a console because it appeals to a younger generation is extremely juvenile and insecure. It would be like hating Disney or Pixar.

The 360/PS3's power encourages developers to spend a shitload of time making their game as visually crisp and detailed as possible. (or as photorealistic as possible- a much too common and popular choice among developers and consumers alike) While this is fine, what's much more important than graphical detail is artistic detail and gameplay mechanics, and games on the Wii like MP3 and MG are some of the best examples of this I know of.

I may be a Nintendo fan, but I really do try to enjoy every game I pick up as much as possible (because why the hell wouldn't I?) No game that I've played on 360 except Portal and Limbo (neither of which are even a full game- lol) have hit home for me as hard as Mario Galaxy 1+2, Metroid Prime 3, Twilight Princess, Mario Kart Wii, Okami (yes I know it's originally for PS2), Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Kirby's Epic Yarn, and Super Paper Mario have. (and I've played all the shooters- GoW, CoD, Halo- all fine, and the the off-shooters (no pun intended) Mass Effect and Bioshock- both amazing) Call me a fanboy all you want, but I believe Nintendo is the best video game hardware and software developer in the world, and I would pick my Wii over my 360 any day. (didn't even mention all the fantastic games on Virtual Console that many are experiencing for the first time)

My worry is all Nintendo has done is brought the Wii to the masses as a tech fad. To end up collecting dust like the Tamagotchis, Furbys and other techy toys. That's all that the Wii is - what I think - is for far too large a proportion of Wii owners see it as just a novel toy, a plaything, they don't see it as entirely new medium for expression.

Nintendo has failed on the so called "bridge titles". They have a few games for the loyal fanbase... but no real way they can move from Wii sports or carnival games to the likes of Metroid Prime 3.

Yeah, they've taught almost 80 million people/homes the semantics of a games consoles (i.e. the console hardward vs game disc distinction, not seeing it as One-Device) but they haven't taught them how to play with the big-boys. They haven't introduced them to GAMING, they've introduced them to PLAYING. The wii seems to be used like a toy by most users, lacking the challenge, competition and self betterment and satisfaction of MASTERING controls.

Wii controls are easy to pick up, but their ergonomics make them (if not impossible) at least frustrating and unsatisfying to master.

Really the only reason I'm interested in Wii is the likes of Retro Studios and Miyamoto who are committed to Nintendo and Wii. True geniuses. But I haven't got a Wii yet.