frat boy mentality-a plague on the gaming industry?
- Thread starter RaikuFA
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For one, I think we need to stop talking about something like this "ruining gaming." As long as those games you're talking about still exist, this mentality is not "ruining" the entire medium. Don't whine.
But to be fair, I agree it's rather annoying, but it really just comes with the way this medium has developed. We have jumped straight into the action-oriented entertainment that film had to age into with special effects, but we are not yet accepted as a real artistic medium. Meaning games with artistic merit will be largely pushed aside by the majority of gamers that only want to have fun, and until games are more widely recognized artistically there will be little reason for them to do otherwise.
Really though, this mentality also exists in film, and it hasn't ruined anything, simply produced quite a few awful action films. We're fine; mildly annoyed, but just fine.
But to be fair, I agree it's rather annoying, but it really just comes with the way this medium has developed. We have jumped straight into the action-oriented entertainment that film had to age into with special effects, but we are not yet accepted as a real artistic medium. Meaning games with artistic merit will be largely pushed aside by the majority of gamers that only want to have fun, and until games are more widely recognized artistically there will be little reason for them to do otherwise.
Really though, this mentality also exists in film, and it hasn't ruined anything, simply produced quite a few awful action films. We're fine; mildly annoyed, but just fine.
Why don't we all hand the artists take a hike and hire Crytek to create graphics for every game ever developed from now on.Sober Thal said:
I don't give a damn if that sphere in front of me has 500 or 750 polygons. I just want to play, and as long it doesn't look like a square I'm fine.
Though games that are graphically poor but still have high hardware requirements and frequent hiccups annoy me.
That implies that every "good" game that is different from Generic Shooter 7 has to be "artistic". Even worse, it implies "artistic games" are not fun.Thaius said:
I don't care about "art-potential". I want a game that is fun. But that doesn't mean I'll shell out 100? for Modern Combat 5 and it's map packs/DLC while the only thing they added was some weapons and better textures.
Prime example of the Red Bull sucking "ZOMG PEW PEW HALO COD BLOPS TEABAG LAWL DUDEBROBRAHDUDE" mentality that the writer is talking about. If its not some twitchy brown shooter where everyone is swearing, the "mainstream" reviewers and ignorant twits who belong to the above mentioned demographic tend crap all over it because it isn't a twitchy brown shooter were everyone is pointlessly swearing.Ordinaryundone said:
Also I like how you call one of the few well known, well regarded, titles that the 3DS can tout as their own and not a remake of a N64 game, though it is a remake of a DS game, as "obscure as hell." Oh you haven't been able to peel yourself away from COD long enough to see anything else that's comming out? So it must be totally obscure as hell.
I also like how you're judging quality based on popularity. I've said before, the most popular stuff is rarely the best. There's been more Big-macs sold than anything else, so it's obviously the best burger, right? Those massive ad campaigns that EA, Activision, and the other big publishers can pump out so everyone and their cousin knows the game is around doesn't promise that the game is great or even okay. Remember, Kane and Lynch was all over the place and got good reviews; we all know why.
The clerk at the store is just as bad, getting all judgemental based on what the person has purchased before and the cover of the game. He has no right to do that especially as someone in customer service industry. There's a reason so many people resent Gamestop these days and it's because they hire shitheels like that. The OP is a kinder person than me, I'd have been demanding my pre-order deposit back and looking for a manager if he acted like that toward me.
In short, Dudebros suck, Dudebros vastly outnumber everyone else, and judgemental Dudebros are even worse.
I will note that not everyone who plays COD and the like is a dudebro, nor am I going to say every mainstream game sucks and the obscure stuff is some obsidian tower of amazing, but people who play nothing else but FaceShooter 57 and then get all "pff lawl weaboo fags" about everyone who actually enjoys stuff besides Faceshooter 57 deserve the hate they get since they've worked so hard to get that image.
The mainstream market exists in every entertainment industry, and more often than not it is fueled by very generic & testosterone-driven works. The "Summer Blockbuster" in films is one of the best-known examples, but gaming isn't exempt from having it either (the FPS genre is probably the best candidate for this); after all, this is where investors are most likely to find the largest and safest source of income.
Unfortunately, games are driven possibly even moreso by making a profit than other forms of entertainment; the increased time & cost of creating a game means more risk for the investor, experimental games have a tough time being approved for development (too much risk) and independent games face a whole host of issues.
All in all, the mainstream market is a necessary evil in the gaming industry. The masses will always be buying the next Call of Duty or whatever, and publishers are more than willing to invest in the next generic shooter; it's easy money for them. Should mainstream interests shift away from FPS games, chances are it will be something just as prone to generic clones. Unfortunately the "frat-boy mentality" not something that will be going away any time soon, if ever at all.
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On the bright side, all the easy money from generic shooters the mainstream FPS market does have some benefit to other genres; it's more money for the publishers to invest in other games, particularly ones which are experimental (and may have evolved from independent games & concepts). They have more money to throw around, and things which aren't guaranteed to make a profit (due to niche appeal) may still get made.
As annoying as it is to see the next generic shooter make record profits without really changing much, many games would probably not be made at all if the generic FPS cash cows didn't bring in the dough. These games still have to make some profit, or else investors will be weary to go into developping experimental games; but at the same time, they'd be more weary to do so if they didn't have a big pile of cash from generic mainstream titles.
It's all about risk, having more (expendable) money to throw around means investors are willing to take bigger risks. It's worth putting up with an endless stream of generic titles (even if I don't play them) if it allows for other games I'm interested to be made at all.
Unfortunately, games are driven possibly even moreso by making a profit than other forms of entertainment; the increased time & cost of creating a game means more risk for the investor, experimental games have a tough time being approved for development (too much risk) and independent games face a whole host of issues.
All in all, the mainstream market is a necessary evil in the gaming industry. The masses will always be buying the next Call of Duty or whatever, and publishers are more than willing to invest in the next generic shooter; it's easy money for them. Should mainstream interests shift away from FPS games, chances are it will be something just as prone to generic clones. Unfortunately the "frat-boy mentality" not something that will be going away any time soon, if ever at all.
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On the bright side, all the easy money from generic shooters the mainstream FPS market does have some benefit to other genres; it's more money for the publishers to invest in other games, particularly ones which are experimental (and may have evolved from independent games & concepts). They have more money to throw around, and things which aren't guaranteed to make a profit (due to niche appeal) may still get made.
As annoying as it is to see the next generic shooter make record profits without really changing much, many games would probably not be made at all if the generic FPS cash cows didn't bring in the dough. These games still have to make some profit, or else investors will be weary to go into developping experimental games; but at the same time, they'd be more weary to do so if they didn't have a big pile of cash from generic mainstream titles.
It's all about risk, having more (expendable) money to throw around means investors are willing to take bigger risks. It's worth putting up with an endless stream of generic titles (even if I don't play them) if it allows for other games I'm interested to be made at all.
This is a point that I believe both Extra Credits and Yahtzee have made but I really don't see it. It would be nice to think that EA and Activision are taking all their Generic Brown Shooter 5: The Revenge profits and investing it to make Unique Idea 1 but they really aren't. Where are we seeing new and different stuff? Out of Indie and small developers. Take Cathrine for example. That game was a huge risk... a survival horror puzzle social sim game came out of Atlus, who isn't exactly swimming in big name FPS profits. What unique titles have come out of the EA or Activision camp? I'm not asking this rhetorically, I'd really like to know because sitting here I can't come up with any.The Abhorrent said:
I think the major issue that the OP has isn't with mainstream gaming as much as the dudebro mentality and how it acts toward the niche market. The game-store employee perfectly surmised that mentality when he called Devil Survivor some "weeaboo" game and then sneered at the person's per-order list. Not only is that obnoxious and ignorant, but it's bad business especially for a game store.
Sylveria said:
Seriously, reviews are opinions. Sales figures represent opinions too, just on a very large scale. If Atlus had faith in their games selling to a larger market, they'd market them more heavily. But they don't, because they make products that cater to a very niche audience. It doesn't matter how "good" they are, as that is a matter of opinion. What does matter is that you can't expect someone to know about every game, or appreciate it in the same way you do.
I don't give a damn how popular a game is. I play CoD, sure. I also own Nier, Catherine, Eternal Sonata, The Darkness, Tales of Vesperia, and lots of other "Niche" games for my Xbox alone. But I'd never go into a store, ask for, say, Shin Megami Tensei Devil Summoner 2 and expect the clerk to know what the hell I was talking about. Nor would I get mad if he thought it was a strange choice, because those games don't appeal to everyone. That's why they are niche.
But hey, get mad. Call me a "Dudebro", whatever that means. Some kind of fancy candy, maybe?
So your saying people are picking on you because you don't like gory games... riiight. Just like the many other users here who don't tend to like gory games or games like COD... Nothing to do with the fact that you through insults at those that do...RaikuFA said:
No, no you don't. Hear I'll say it here in big bold letters I DON'T LIKE STREET FIGHTER I've said this many-a-times. The difference is I'm just stating that I don't like the game, my opinion... those that do a free to play it and enjoy it, not my cup of tea thanks.RaikuFA said:
What your saying is "I hate street fighter and cod, those that play it are stupid frat boys ruining the gaming industry for the games the I like".
Do you see the difference. Your getting insults thrown at your because you started it with you opening rant. As said, your no different from those that are calling you out, only once your the victim of it all, its no longer fun and games.
I agree with you. Simply put the gaming industry has gotten too greedy, sold out, and is lowering gaming to cater to the lowest human denominator. It's not enough to make huge profits when they can potentially be making even bigger ones, and that means moving away from the smarter, more demanding gamers of the past even if those are the people who made the industry what it was. Just like other sell outs throughout history the attitude from the gaming industry is increasingly one of "we don't owe you anything" to their initial fans and customers, despite those people being the only reason why they became big enough to have a chance to operate on this level to begin with.
RPGs and other kinds of games are a lot of work, and work costs money. Such games can make a lot of money, but not as much as crapping out a FPS for an undemanding audience, using the same basic pre-made engines as other FPS games, and selling more copies of the cheaper to produce game.
It's sad because gaming has a lot of potential, it could eventually grow to be as big as Hollywood and the Pro-Sports franchises put together, but only in a long term sense, and that would involve very carefully uplifting the gamers by demanding more of the players to rise up and meet, rather than everything being reduced down to the level of the lowest human denominator. People talk about generic JRPGs and such, but truthfully I feel at their worst they are a step up intellectually from your typical shooter or browser based game. I fear in a decade or two, maybe sooner, all we'll see at all are shooters, sports sims, and farmville clones being distributed digitally and financed with constant barrages of microtransactions.
RPGs and other kinds of games are a lot of work, and work costs money. Such games can make a lot of money, but not as much as crapping out a FPS for an undemanding audience, using the same basic pre-made engines as other FPS games, and selling more copies of the cheaper to produce game.
It's sad because gaming has a lot of potential, it could eventually grow to be as big as Hollywood and the Pro-Sports franchises put together, but only in a long term sense, and that would involve very carefully uplifting the gamers by demanding more of the players to rise up and meet, rather than everything being reduced down to the level of the lowest human denominator. People talk about generic JRPGs and such, but truthfully I feel at their worst they are a step up intellectually from your typical shooter or browser based game. I fear in a decade or two, maybe sooner, all we'll see at all are shooters, sports sims, and farmville clones being distributed digitally and financed with constant barrages of microtransactions.
Dude, sequels. Bad.GiantRaven said:
If you ask me there aren't enough frat boys and to many know-it-alls.
How does not liking niche games like Disgaea 3 (which I personally own, and I think IGN's review was rather generous) have anything to do with frat boys and their supposed mentality?
And I don't think yahztee would consider any of the games you've mentioned in the OP to have advances gaming as an art form.
And what is it about them that warrants them being called douchebags anyways? That they drink too much? Party too much? "Don't respect wimminz" enough according to your personal standards? I would much rather hang out with frat boys than the stereotypical gaming nerd.
Such unwarranted elitism.
And I don't think yahztee would consider any of the games you've mentioned in the OP to have advances gaming as an art form.
And what is it about them that warrants them being called douchebags anyways? That they drink too much? Party too much? "Don't respect wimminz" enough according to your personal standards? I would much rather hang out with frat boys than the stereotypical gaming nerd.
Such unwarranted elitism.
Why?For.I.Am.Mad said:
Looking at some of the sequels that have come out (and are coming out) this year. Just off the top of my head we have:
Portal 2
Deus Ex: Human Revolution (Ok, I know that's a prequel but I'm including it anyway)
Batman: Arkham City
Skyrim
All of which have either been really well received or look to be just as good as their predecessors.
I don't see how a game being a sequel automatically means it's bad.
Don't cherry pick games that support your argument whilst ignoring all the games that destroy it outright. It makes it hard for people to agree with you.RaikuFA said:
That being said, yes I do think that Activision and EA should tone down their yearly release schedule and spread their games out a little more. That way they would be able to put a little more effort into what they publish.
Really? Disgaea 3 basically has the same graphics engine from Disgaea 2 yet you're saying CoD & Madden sequels take no effort to make? And if you actually play Madden and know alot about football, you'll see that the new mechanics introduced each year are far from effortlessly implemented.RaikuFA said:
Pls go.