So I watched the leaked episode. On a side note, what the hell is up with all these leaks? You'd think HBO would sort it out.
Well, anyway.
WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT? Ya know, I've done my fair share of complaining but couldn't imagine how fucking low they'd manage to sink. That was, without a doubt, the worst episode of GOT ever.
For a start, who did they hire to write the conversations? A handicapped 12 year old? Just look at it! Its bad and makes no sense at all. Worst offender being Arya and Sansa.
Arya: You betrayed our house blablabla I'm an edgy anime character blablabla I saw you standing on the platform when father was beheaded
Sansa: Right, so surely you remember I was screaming for them to stop and that they had to hold me back because I was trying to get to Ned?
Arya: ...Well uh anyway, I'd rather die than do anything the Lannisters tell me, unlike you, *****!
Sansa: Right, like that time you spent weeks serving Tywin Lannister, pouring him wine, scrubbing his chamber pot, having nice conversations with him, all without once making an attempt on his life?
Arya: ...
This entire storyline is just fucking pointless and awkward. Pointless because, real talk, Arya will not kill Sansa and Sansa will not kill Arya; awkward because their actresses cannot pull it off. And by the way, why does Arya randomly flip in and out of "psycho fanfic" mode? She wasn't like this when she came to Winterfell. Split personality?
And then theres all that shit beyond the wall. Just shut the fuck up and get to the point, nobody fucking cares abour your lazy attempts to fix the massive inconsistencies and holes in your story in 2 sentences. We're not buying it. And Tormund and the Hound. Oh God.
Hound: I bet you like COCKS
Tormund: DICKS????
H: COCK DICK COCKS
T: I LIKE DICK PUSSY
H: **** FUCK **** FUCK FUCK FUCKING CUNTS
D&D: Wow this is great writing
Whats the point???? No, seriously, what is the actual point of this conversation? What about this dialogue is in any way good enough or important enough to show on screen? And what was the goddamn point of that entire bloody storyline with the hound surviving and his community being killed and him joining the brotherhood and having a vision and regretting past deeds and whatever... When all it amounts to is him being scared of fire AGAIN (wow we haven't seen this one before, D&D please include another 5 scenes of this happening next episode, it wasn't dramatic enough the first 300000 fucking times) and calling everyone a ****?
And that entire thing on the lake. I'm done. Do they seriously want me to believe that Gendry ran back to the wall, after which a raven flew all the way from the wall down to Dragonstone, after which Dany flew the entire way from Dragonstone past the wall to that lake in the span of like 3 days? I've given them some leeway before concerning teleporting characters and what not but thats too much. And it would be so easy to fix as well!
Dany: I haven't recieved a letter yet but my pussies really wet for Jun Snuw so I'm gonna fly up to Castle Black and see if they're back yet. (At castle black) Wow Gendry just got here and told me everything, lets go boys!
Fixed. That took me 15 seconds, requires no extra budget, it shouldn't be any harder to film - why don't they just do this? Laziness or incompetence?
Fine, the dragon dying plucked the heart strings a bit, but thats it. Everything else was complete trash. That fight was bullshit. There is zero fucking tension - no one important died and their plot armor is just highlighted by the random no names around them being slaughtered. I've seen better episodes of Eastenders. Usually we could at least be a tiny little bit excited about an undead ice dragon tearing shit up - but its D&D, so it will probably culminate in the hound calling it a **** while Tormund gives us a detailed, 3 minute long description of its penis.
The whole thing - on Youtube though, funnily enough. HBO are really aggressive about taking down leaked episodes but I have my ways to find fresh links. The one I watched was private and probably taken down like 5 minutes after I loaded it.
Not to mention there was still ample opportunity to kill the fuck out of the Night King. Set him on fire with dragons. I know I know you can argue it wouldn't be that easy but they stood around gawking for like a full 2 minutes just doing nothing and the bastard didn't exactly rush to get his second spear.
EDIT: My bad, fucked up the spoiler tags. Hope nobody saw that.
I Stiil think it would have been much more interesting if they capture a White Walker. Imagine if they reveal it to Cersei and "it" talks explaining to everyone their doom is coming and there is nothing they can do to stop it.
I Stiil think it would have been much more interesting if they capture a White Walker. Imagine if they reveal it to Cersei and "it" talks explaining to everyone their doom is coming and there is nothing they can do to stop it.
-The White Walkers are effectively weapons gone rogue (a plot twist I'm not fond of, but whatever), so I can understand why they don't speak much. Least not English (Westerosi?).
-Getting a wight would be far easier.
-But why bother at this point? Dany knows the threat is real, so just have her knock out Cersei, take over the Seven Kingdoms, and then help the North, instead of trying to play nice with Queen Cersei when Queen Daenerys doesn't even want her on the throne.
-But why bother at this point? Dany knows the threat is real, so just have her knock out Cersei, take over the Seven Kingdoms, and then help the North, instead of trying to play nice with Queen Cersei when Queen Daenerys doesn't even want her on the throne.
Oh come on now, Arthas is nothing like the Night King. Arthas was a human man who became undead, went on to claim his kingship over an army of undead, remained stationary for a few years, then get up, sent his undead army against the world of the living, and utilized an undead dragon while he was at it.
The Night King was a human man who got turned into a White Walker, became king over an army of undead, remained stationary for thousands of years, sent his undead army against the world of the living, and utilized an undead dragon while he was at it.
Oh come on now, Arthas is nothing like the Night King. Arthas was a human man who became undead, went on to claim his kingship over an army of undead, remained stationary for a few years, then get up, sent his undead army against the world of the living, and utilized an undead dragon while he was at it.
The Night King was a human man who got turned into a White Walker, became king over an army of undead, remained stationary for thousands of years, sent his undead army against the world of the living, and utilized an undead dragon while he was at it.
But why bother at this point? Dany knows the threat is real, so just have her knock out Cersei, take over the Seven Kingdoms, and then help the North, instead of trying to play nice with Queen Cersei when Queen Daenerys doesn't even want her on the throne.
Cersei's plot armor is made of some ungodly material. She should have been crushed at the beginning of this season. There's no practical reason for her to be alive at all. But she is, because the story wants her to be. This is what happens when the original writer (GRRM) is no longer writing or advising. I still love the show but damn, if they kept Cersei alive just so she could pull some Red Wedding type bullshit I'll be pissed. She's got absolutely no right to survive this season. None whatsoever.
"The evac dragon is here! I'm going to run away from it to beat up inconsequential zombies for no good reason because the scene demands it!"
"Hello!"
"Uncle Benjoon!"
"Yes! I'm still here, but the writers don't know what to do with me! So... there's no time! Arrrgh!"
They're really going all out on the cross-continental teleportation huh? I can't say it genuinely bothers me, nothing wrong with a bit of plot-convenient flexibility, but it's getting undeniably silly. Anyone remember in the first season when it took at least a few weeks to travel from Winterfell to King's Landing?
Oh, and I see they're signposting the old kill-the-enemy-boss-to-auto-win trope.
People say there is no good or evil in this series, than explain House Bolton?
A Noble Family of leechers of blood and flayers of Human Skin, their lord is known for being a Rapist, their fortress is called the Dreadfort, their sigil is a flayed man and of course what can be said about Ramsey that hasn't been said?
How are they not obviously evil and heck in the Books Roose Bolton's book incarnation looks more like a villain than the actor who portrayed him:
Because back when he was on the show they still had writers who knew how to write morally ambiguous characters, or at least make the villains charismatic and likable. Roose on the show looks like a scruffy uncle or a stern but kind boss, he at least presents himself in a way that doesn't scream "SADIST TORTURER RAPIST" unlike that fucking clown Euron, and that voice is just... *ahhhh*.
OT: Good thing I started watching Westworld, because now I have a balance between brilliantly cerebral concepts and writing, and stupid flashy fantasy spectacle. If the show last season went all out with the stupid, now it's gone absolute 100% full retard. It's not just teleporting with horses and boats, but now on dragons too and fucking on foot for Christ's sake! How on earth do the writers expect me to believe that within half a day (let's say 24 hours to be generous) did Jon's posse walk all the way to some mountain that apparently you just couldn't see for some godforsaken reason from the wall? Do these hacks have any concept of a march, not to even speak of one in full gear and in wintertime??? It's the most basic fucking thing imaginable. On flat land, an average adult's range of sight is roughly 30 km. An average, well fed adult can march that distance in roughly 7 hours with enough breaks. For that mountain to remain unseen from top of the Wall it'd have to be possibly hundreds of kilometers away, but apparently Jon got some sweet ass Harley Davidsons for all of them, and them walking was just them taking a nice stroll break to enjoy the scenery.
Thoros gets first knocked down, then full on mauled, and then just tossed around by a polar bear the size of a car. But ehhh, fuck it, we'll just cauterize the wound and pretend things like concussions, sprains, organ or vertebral damage and lacerations don't exist. I almost went "COME ON!" out loud when he got up and kept walking, stopping just short of dabbing at all the haters.
Daenerys shows up with her dragons apparently having gained supersonic speed, and +1000 frost resistance herself, absolutely whoops the undead horde's ass with her living nukes, and then just stands there after the White Walker (all of whom conveniently avoided all damage) splats one of her dragons. I don't even know where to begin with this retardation. Why would the White Walker aim at the flying dragon when one is perched not even 200 meters from him, perfectly still? It's the size of a fucking hill and breathing fire, it's not exactly wearing a ghillie suit for camouflage!!!
Wasn't part of why the undead were so dangerous because they'd keep fighting no matter what? Remember what a serious threat that wight in season 1 was? Well that's all gone now. Apparently you can just punch them once and they're done.
The dialogue scenes between Arya and Sansa bordered on unbearable. Like, Arya just keeps those fucking faces in her pouch, plain for all to see. What. The. Fuck?
I started liking the show again when it went retarded, but this episode was genuinely pushing it. It's clear the writers couldn't write themselves out of a wet paper bag that someone else already broke for them. Season 6 showed the writing took a clear and massive hit when GRRM was no longer on board, but man alive, I'd never have guessed how far the show would fall.
I'm just going to say it: GoT is going to end up in the same position as Lost: revolutionary upon its release and a massive phenomenon while it's on, but over time gradually devolving into stupidity, and ending up not that fondly remembered. Both have strengths over the other: While Lost's first seasons feel almost pointless after seeing it to the end, the series' badness at least was somewhat spread out to individual episodes, and season 4 picking the show up by a great margin. Whereas GoT's goodness for the first 3-4 seasons is consistent, so is its badness from season 5 onwards.
But seeing a zombie dragon on an HBO budget is admittedly cool.
To be completely fair, this is traditionally how undead armies work in most fantasy fiction.
That said, the white walkers being a threat seems somewhat contrived to me at this point. They have all the tools they need to take them out. Hell, Brann coordinating with the two remaining dragons could probably destroy the entire army if he was smart about it. All we have seen from them is melee combat and super strength javelin throwing.
To be completely fair, this is traditionally how undead armies work in most fantasy fiction.
That said, the white walkers being a threat seems somewhat contrived to me at this point. They have all the tools they need to take them out. Hell, Brann coordinating with the two remaining dragons could probably destroy the entire army if he was smart about it. All we have seen from them is melee combat and super strength javelin throwing.
Well not always the case, because in WOW, when the Lich King dies there is an issue that without its master's comment the Undead Scourge would become wild and untammable, and soon would spread out of control. And a charcater named Bolvar Fordragon took the reins as Lich King to become the Jailor of the Damnned by keeping the Undead within Icecrown.
People say there is no good or evil in this series, than explain House Bolton?
A Noble Family of leechers of blood and flayers of Human Skin, their lord is known for being a Rapist, their fortress is called the Dreadfort, their sigil is a flayed man and of course what can be said about Ramsey that hasn't been said?
How are they not obviously evil and heck in the Books Roose Bolton's book incarnation looks more like a villain than the actor who portrayed him:
Because back when he was on the show they still had writers who knew how to write morally ambiguous characters, or at least make the villains charismatic and likable. Roose on the show looks like a scruffy uncle or a stern but kind boss, he at least presents himself in a way that doesn't scream "SADIST TORTURER RAPIST" unlike that fucking clown Euron, and that voice is just... *ahhhh*.
OT: Good thing I started watching Westworld, because now I have a balance between brilliantly cerebral concepts and writing, and stupid flashy fantasy spectacle. If the show last season went all out with the stupid, now it's gone absolute 100% full retard. It's not just teleporting with horses and boats, but now on dragons too and fucking on foot for Christ's sake! How on earth do the writers expect me to believe that within half a day (let's say 24 hours to be generous) did Jon's posse walk all the way to some mountain that apparently you just couldn't see for some godforsaken reason from the wall? Do these hacks have any concept of a march, not to even speak of one in full gear and in wintertime??? It's the most basic fucking thing imaginable. On flat land, an average adult's range of sight is roughly 30 km. An average, well fed adult can march that distance in roughly 7 hours with enough breaks. For that mountain to remain unseen from top of the Wall it'd have to be possibly hundreds of kilometers away, but apparently Jon got some sweet ass Harley Davidsons for all of them, and them walking was just them taking a nice stroll break to enjoy the scenery.
Thoros gets first knocked down, then full on mauled, and then just tossed around by a polar bear the size of a car. But ehhh, fuck it, we'll just cauterize the wound and pretend things like concussions, sprains, organ or vertebral damage and lacerations don't exist. I almost went "COME ON!" out loud when he got up and kept walking, stopping just short of dabbing at all the haters.
Daenerys shows up with her dragons apparently having gained supersonic speed, and +1000 frost resistance herself, absolutely whoops the undead horde's ass with her living nukes, and then just stands there after the White Walker (all of whom conveniently avoided all damage) splats one of her dragons. I don't even know where to begin with this retardation. Why would the White Walker aim at the flying dragon when one is perched not even 200 meters from him, perfectly still? It's the size of a fucking hill and breathing fire, it's not exactly wearing a ghillie suit for camouflage!!!
Wasn't part of why the undead were so dangerous because they'd keep fighting no matter what? Remember what a serious threat that wight in season 1 was? Well that's all gone now. Apparently you can just punch them once and they're done.
The dialogue scenes between Arya and Sansa bordered on unbearable. Like, Arya just keeps those fucking faces in her pouch, plain for all to see. What. The. Fuck?
I started liking the show again when it went retarded, but this episode was genuinely pushing it. It's clear the writers couldn't write themselves out of a wet paper bag that someone else already broke for them. Season 6 showed the writing took a clear and massive hit when GRRM was no longer on board, but man alive, I'd never have guessed how far the show would fall.
I'm just going to say it: GoT is going to end up in the same position as Lost: revolutionary upon its release and a massive phenomenon while it's on, but over time gradually devolving into stupidity, and ending up not that fondly remembered. Both have strengths over the other: While Lost's first seasons feel almost pointless after seeing it to the end, the series' badness at least was somewhat spread out to individual episodes, and season 4 picking the show up by a great margin. Whereas GoT's goodness for the first 3-4 seasons is consistent, so is its badness from season 5 onwards.
But seeing a zombie dragon on an HBO budget is admittedly cool.
I have been saying this for years now that there is no way this show and/or book would end satisfactorially, I am predicting a Mass Effect 3 like Ending debacle happening at the series finale. Worse than the Sopranos ending for HBO.
OT: Good thing I started watching Westworld, because now I have a balance between brilliantly cerebral concepts and writing, and stupid flashy fantasy spectacle.
I think Westworld is a damn good show, but "flashy spectacle?" To be honest, I think that when it does action, it still does it quite well. There's the gatling gun/railway carriage scene (just have William shoot the guys, he's unable to be hurt after all), but the violence, IMO, serves the plot. Showing how people can indulge in violence, and how terrifying it can be for the hosts when they're up against these people that they can't kill for some reason.
It's her new dress. Probably socketed some gems into it as well. ;p
bartholen said:
I'm just going to say it: GoT is going to end up in the same position as Lost: revolutionary upon its release and a massive phenomenon while it's on, but over time gradually devolving into stupidity, and ending up not that fondly remembered. Both have strengths over the other: While Lost's first seasons feel almost pointless after seeing it to the end, the series' badness at least was somewhat spread out to individual episodes, and season 4 picking the show up by a great margin. Whereas GoT's goodness for the first 3-4 seasons is consistent, so is its badness from season 5 onwards.
Disagree personally. I love Lost myself, but GoT differs from Lost in the following ways IMO:
-Game of Thrones will get spinoffs, and has an entire world as its playground. With Lost, you could do spinoffs (e.g. Hurly's time as guardian of the island), but it's a far smaller setting that doesn't lend itself as well to worldbuilding.
-Game of Thrones still has the books coming along. Lost, far as I'm aware, basically stopped as soon as the show did.
-I remember Lost being a 'thing' back in the 2000s. I didn't watch it then (I actually watched all six seasons of Lost for the first time this year), but even then, I think GoT has entered the cultural zeitgeist to a far greater extent than Lost did. I'd also argue that Game of Thrones is more revolutionary in that it's a high budget fantasy show that, in my experience, appealed to people who didn't like fantasy previously. Lost, while a very solid show IMO, is still based on pre-existing concepts (stranded on a hostile island). Another thing I noticed was that back in the day, Lost became that thing that it became cool to not watch - arguments that it was overrated and all that. I haven't noticed pushback against GoT in the same way. Certainly discontent with later seasons, but there's no anti-GoT movement that I can see.
As for Lost specifically, my order of quality goes 2>1>4>6>3>5. With Game of Thrones, I'm up to Season 5 right now, and while it's probably the weakest season, I feel GoT has been more or less at the same quality, whereas Lost has seasonal ups and downs.
OT: Good thing I started watching Westworld, because now I have a balance between brilliantly cerebral concepts and writing, and stupid flashy fantasy spectacle.
I think Westworld is a damn good show, but "flashy spectacle?" To be honest, I think that when it does action, it still does it quite well. There's the gatling gun/railway carriage scene (just have William shoot the guys, he's unable to be hurt after all), but the violence, IMO, serves the plot. Showing how people can indulge in violence, and how terrifying it can be for the hosts when they're up against these people that they can't kill for some reason.
Oh, that wasn't meant to be a dig at Westworld, but at GoT instead: Westworld has the writing, GoT has the spectacle, whereas GoT in previous seasons had both. During the latest episode I found myself just waiting for the next action scene and not paying that much attention to all the dialogue. GoT still has the novelty of showing essentially DnD battles done on a production level never seen before outside of movies, but the writing in this season has been so genuinely poor in both story and dialogue that the spectacle is basically all the show has to offer at this point.
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