Gamer Girl Jayd3Fox Bullied off web by Feminist

[AkaDad]

Let me explain then. Once you insult me or others, I'm done listening. It's as simple as that.

Whatever story you're telling, whatever point or argument you're trying to make becomes null and void to me once you throw out insults, especially nonsensical, oxymoron insults like Feminazi.

I get that she's pissed off, I would be too, but if you want sympathy, be sympathetic.

Put it as you with but Feminazi is another one of those idiotic terms that popped up around feminists and SJW. Only, unlike reverse sexism and reverse racism for example this one actually does not go contrary to definition of the word and actually makes sense.

Feminazi is feminist that has diehard "you are with us or against us" mentality and relentlessly assaults anyone that person sees as enemy often without choosing methods. If I remember correctly, she used term with exactly that meaning in mind.

Either you support equality or you don't. If you don't then yes, you are against the people that do and you should let all the women in your life know how you feel. Pointing out how someone opposes inequality isn't an assault nor does it make one a Nazi.

 

[Skatologist]

There is one weird habit of Feminism which always makes me shake my head. It's the reluctance to completely dismiss the obvious whack-jobs. These people are always the fringe of the fringe and the most famous is probably the would-be assassin of Andy Warhol, Valerie Solanas whose S.C.U.M. (The Society for Cutting Up Men) had exactly one member... herself. It was irresponsible hate speech and I've seen quite a few feminists half-defend her, which is largely just them being somewhat sympathetic to the horrible life she led and trying to be understanding of her anger. There's currently another feminist who advocates the reduction of the male population by 90% to achieve true sexual equality... and you have the same kind of thing happening. They don't support her in any real way, but she's not outright condemned for her hate-speech by the few people who pay any attention to her.

Wow am I scared of those kinds of feminists, at least if they actually act upon their principles and have plans for such atrocities. I suppose the reduction one does not necessarily imply killing off most men now and instead only have female children, but I can't help but assume such a person would kill of masculine males to reach their goals.

But it's not like my old Right Wing allies were much better. When David Duke, the former head of the KKK, joined the Republican Party, they didn't stand by him, but they didn't do the obvious thing in condemning his unending stream of racism. The Rush Limbaughs of the world were curiously silent about the whole Duke situation, despite him making the run-off in the Louisiana governor race.

Yeah, every group essentially has much more leeway with their fringes than the fringes of other groups, unless the group is of course the fringe. I'd like to say I'm not like that, but then again I'm willing to admit I'm no less of a rotten human being than most other people.

 

[AkaDad]

Let me explain then. Once you insult me or others, I'm done listening. It's as simple as that.

Whatever story you're telling, whatever point or argument you're trying to make becomes null and void to me once you throw out insults, especially nonsensical, oxymoron insults like Feminazi.

I get that she's pissed off, I would be too, but if you want sympathy, be sympathetic.

Put it as you with but Feminazi is another one of those idiotic terms that popped up around feminists and SJW. Only, unlike reverse sexism and reverse racism for example this one actually does not go contrary to definition of the word and actually makes sense.

Feminazi is feminist that has diehard "you are with us or against us" mentality and relentlessly assaults anyone that person sees as enemy often without choosing methods. If I remember correctly, she used term with exactly that meaning in mind.

Rush Limbaugh, who coined the term, originally said it was to describe the small minority of feminists who advocated abortion to the point of encouraging it.

And, no, he never bothered to use his own word correctly. I was a bit of a Rush fan back then, but he never seemed to identify any particular feminist as a feminazi. He just used the word as a general insult.

There is one weird habit of Feminism which always makes me shake my head. It's the reluctance to completely dismiss the obvious whack-jobs. These people are always the fringe of the fringe and the most famous is probably the would-be assassin of Andy Warhol, Valerie Solanas whose S.C.U.M. (The Society for Cutting Up Men) had exactly one member... herself. It was irresponsible hate speech and I've seen quite a few feminists half-defend her, which is largely just them being somewhat sympathetic to the horrible life she led and trying to be understanding of her anger. There's currently another feminist who advocates the reduction of the male population by 90% to achieve true sexual equality... and you have the same kind of thing happening. They don't support her in any real way, but she's not outright condemned for her hate-speech by the few people who pay any attention to her.

But it's not like my old Right Wing allies were much better. When David Duke, the former head of the KKK, joined the Republican Party, they didn't stand by him, but they didn't do the obvious thing in condemning his unending stream of racism. The Rush Limbaughs of the world were curiously silent about the whole Duke situation, despite him making the run-off in the Louisiana governor race.

Let me say this then. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist and calls for the reduction of the male population or castrating men should be mocked and shunned by everyone. Those "feminists" are dead to me.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I think it's understandable that she'd lash out. She sounded about to be in tears and very hurt. I dunno how honest that is but if it really is how she felt I think we can afford her some extra understanding due to mental strain/anger.


Honestly, the core issue here is that someone called her and told her she's a slut and that they were a feminist, not what she may or may not think about feminists.

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

y'know guys, I think the OP is trying to imply that this sounds exactly like the cases with Anita and Zoe, but since the evil person wasn't a man, the indie-circles, feminist circles, game "journalists", won't report on this because it doesn't fit their narrative. If I'm wrong here, please correct me.

One of the reasons certain cases get coverage is there's a substantial visible trail that lends objective supporting proof to the statements. You can go on YouTube and find a ton of extremely crude comments which make the accusations more substantial. I was just reading a piece on the Anita/Zoe situation and the guy is linking stuff left, right, and center. Not to YouTube commentary of people agreeing with her, links to people making similar attacks. The goal is to create an indisputable case that abuse is happening.

I don't know terribly much about this situation beyond a couple of her videos. The only evidence I see of the phone call is in her account of it, which I don't doubt. But if we're going to blame this on Feminists (and not just random assholes from gaming sites), then let's find some really nasty stuff said about her from Feminist sites and link those. If you want this to be a story, then you want to establish a trend of behavior.

And feminists will be the first to tell you that there's some crazy feminists out there. If there's a pattern of abuse, it shouldn't be too hard to track down. Do feminists spend hours upon hours refuting her videos? Do they rail against on her on their forums? I guarantee you that Zoe and Anita laid an entire package at the feet of the media, not just one incident. Reporters generally don't have a lot of time, so they can't chase down every story. Give them a story, give them the tools to verify it, and you've got a much better chance of them picking up on it.

I guess Youtube comments and twitter do contain hard evidence of harassment, but I doubt someone being attacked online by trolls counts as a genuine story each time it happens. And as far as I know, railing against someone on forums or spending hours refuting someone's assertions doesn't count as harassment.
Perhaps I have misinterpreted what you've said, please tell me if this is so.

 

[carnex]

Let me explain then. Once you insult me or others, I'm done listening. It's as simple as that.

Whatever story you're telling, whatever point or argument you're trying to make becomes null and void to me once you throw out insults, especially nonsensical, oxymoron insults like Feminazi.

I get that she's pissed off, I would be too, but if you want sympathy, be sympathetic.

Put it as you with but Feminazi is another one of those idiotic terms that popped up around feminists and SJW. Only, unlike reverse sexism and reverse racism for example this one actually does not go contrary to definition of the word and actually makes sense.

Feminazi is feminist that has diehard "you are with us or against us" mentality and relentlessly assaults anyone that person sees as enemy often without choosing methods. If I remember correctly, she used term with exactly that meaning in mind.

Yes, but the origin of the word "feminazi" was not intended to focus on the authoritarian aspect of the third reich, at least not solely. Rather, people like Rush Limbaugh had originally used it to make comparisons between feminism's support of birth control and abortions and the systematic killings of jews, gypsies, and all the other victims of the Nazi death camps. If you want to call someone authoritative, call them authoritative by all means, but you don't need to drag them through the mud and reuse a phrase by a pig headed bigot to get a point across that you don't like their "with us or against us" attitude.

Didn't know about that, I'll look into it. My apologies. Luckily they are nowhere near as efficient and unified as Nazis were (there was plenty of infighting in NSDAP, but it never showed on surface outside major housecleaning operations until 42-43)

Let me say this then. Anyone who calls themselves a feminist and calls for the reduction of the male population or castrating men should be mocked and shunned by everyone. Those "feminists" are dead to me.

But those are most visible feminists out there. Those that, on national television, say how funny it is that woman cut off men's penis because he wanted to divorce her.

 

[Erttheking]

Question. Do you care at all about the suffering this woman had to go through, or is she just a cut out you can use to prove a point?

It's funny because the other side has been saying that since everything began.

Look, this is horrible if it's real, but the irony of you telling me how shit just got real while people still claim Anita Sarkeesian has straight up created the abuse she's experienced because of coincidence and kind of incomprehensible Imgur pics, is not lost on me.

Oh people do believe she gets harassed, no one is denying that. But people had every reason to question this particular attack. There was also more obvious red flags aside from the "incomprehensible Imgur" you mentioned.

It's also funny because the other side has been saying that Anita has clearly been falsifying her threats for her own gain. But this woman who was threatened by the other side? Well the claims must be true this time. Which was the point of my post.

 

[Netrigan]

y'know guys, I think the OP is trying to imply that this sounds exactly like the cases with Anita and Zoe, but since the evil person wasn't a man, the indie-circles, feminist circles, game "journalists", won't report on this because it doesn't fit their narrative. If I'm wrong here, please correct me.

One of the reasons certain cases get coverage is there's a substantial visible trail that lends objective supporting proof to the statements. You can go on YouTube and find a ton of extremely crude comments which make the accusations more substantial. I was just reading a piece on the Anita/Zoe situation and the guy is linking stuff left, right, and center. Not to YouTube commentary of people agreeing with her, links to people making similar attacks. The goal is to create an indisputable case that abuse is happening.

I don't know terribly much about this situation beyond a couple of her videos. The only evidence I see of the phone call is in her account of it, which I don't doubt. But if we're going to blame this on Feminists (and not just random assholes from gaming sites), then let's find some really nasty stuff said about her from Feminist sites and link those. If you want this to be a story, then you want to establish a trend of behavior.

And feminists will be the first to tell you that there's some crazy feminists out there. If there's a pattern of abuse, it shouldn't be too hard to track down. Do feminists spend hours upon hours refuting her videos? Do they rail against on her on their forums? I guarantee you that Zoe and Anita laid an entire package at the feet of the media, not just one incident. Reporters generally don't have a lot of time, so they can't chase down every story. Give them a story, give them the tools to verify it, and you've got a much better chance of them picking up on it.

I guess Youtube comments and twitter do contain hard evidence of harassment, but I doubt someone being attacked online by trolls counts as a genuine story each time it happens. And as far as I know, railing against someone on forums or spending hours refuting someone's assertions doesn't count as harassment.
Perhaps I have misinterpreted what you've said, please tell me if this is so.

No, but they are coming with more serious accusations of abuse, which aren't always so well documented.

We only have Jayd3Fox's word that she received that phone call. It didn't happen on-line for all the world to see, so if you're a media outlet or the police, you have to consider the possibility that it's a false report. You supply links to lots and lots of hate-filled comments, then it lends a lot of credibility to the more serious, undocumented accusations.

And how do we know it was feminists behind it. For all we know it's someone who has a personal reason for hating her and used her on-line activities as cover. If you can establish there is indeed a feminist backlash against her, then this leads credence to the person doing the harassing is a feminist.

 

[Skatologist]

Didn't know about that, I'll look into it. My apologies.

No worries, it's an honest mistake to think that when someone is referring to someone or something else as a nazi that it is a focus on the "with us or against us" mentality solely rather than that whole bit about genocide and mass killings . I personally don't like drawing parallels to historical tragedies simply because I would feel like I was overly disparaging another's viewpoint to the point of bullying them and I think it devalues the impact of said historical tragedies. I generally try to follow the rule of trying to understand other people's opinions and why they hold them to the best of my ability. I even tried with the "anti-racist is code word for anti-white" crowd until I recognized that damn near all of them were unable to argue outside of their mantra.

 

[AkaDad]

I think it's understandable that she'd lash out. She sounded about to be in tears and very hurt. I dunno how honest that is but if it really is how she felt I think we can afford her some extra understanding due to mental strain/anger.


Honestly, the core issue here is that someone called her and told her she's a slut and that they were a feminist, not what she may or may not think about feminists.

I still stand by my statement about using insults, but yeah, you make a good point. Perhaps I shouldn't have completely dismissed her without taking into account her mental state at the time.

I'm just so fed up with people being so hateful lately, that it's gotten to me as well.

 

[Colour Scientist]

y'know guys, I think the OP is trying to imply that this sounds exactly like the cases with Anita and Zoe, but since the evil person wasn't a man, the indie-circles, feminist circles, game "journalists", won't report on this because it doesn't fit their narrative. If I'm wrong here, please correct me.

It's actually probably because she isn't high profile enough.

Most people on these forums know who Anita Sarkeesian is, she's had at least two threads a week dedicated to her for about two years. On the other hand, I doubt 99% of people here have heard of this girl until now.

She's just someone who makes YouTube videos. It's terrible that she was on the receiving end of harassment but game journalists are hardly going to report on every instance of harassment on the internet.

That's not me saying that it happens all of the time so it's okay. I just mean that journalists, not just game journalists, will write about stories that people will read. It's the same as celebrity magazines focusing on high-profile celebrities, they don't dedicate a lot of column inches to D-listers because a majority of their readership don't care.

 

[Skatologist]

It's actually probably because she isn't high profile enough.

Most people on these forums know who Anita Sarkeesian is, she's had at least two threads a week dedicated to her for about two years. On the other hand, I doubt 99% of people here have heard of this girl until now.

She's just someone who makes YouTube videos. It's terrible that she was on the receiving end of harassment but game journalists are hardly going to report on every instance of harassment on the internet.

That's not me saying that it happens all of the time so it's okay. I just mean that journalists, not just game journalists, will write about stories that people will read. It's the same as celebrity magazines focusing on high-profile celebrities, they don't dedicate a lot of column inches to D-listers because a majority of their readership don't care.

Yeah, but how important were Quinn and Sarkeesian before their harassment? I suppose slightly more so than Jayd, but I could be wrong. I'm a bit more cynical about it. journalists rarely ever try to be objective in assessments and if they came across this woman's channel and her videos, I'm guessing they would ignore the harassment and never cover the potential story because much of gaming journalism is honestly still on the side of Sarkeesian and Quinn, whether rightly so or not. The major potential for this becoming bigger is if Jayd were to come back making videos because people like Internet Aristocrat and Mundane Matt shed light on the story and requested she come back and make more videos, which seems like the second likeliest option after this story not spreading/Jayd never coming back.

 

[GenuflectHonesty]

Hey OP, remember when this came up in the Zoe Quinn thread and we all agreed to respect Fox's wishes to not bring this up again because she did not want to be victimized as part of an agenda? I guess not because you're doing the exact thing that she's asked people not to do!

I'm sorry for being rude, and what happened to this girl is heartwrenching, but Christ, she deactivated her Paypal just so that people couldn't make her into a professional victim! And you're here doing something to somebody that you keep slamming Anita for! You need to think harder before posting, OP!

 

[GenuflectHonesty]

Hey OP, remember when this came up in the Zoe Quinn thread and we all agreed to respect Fox's wishes to not bring this up again because she did not want to be victimized as part of an agenda? I guess not because you're doing the exact thing that she's asked people not to do!

I'm sorry for being rude, and what happened to this girl is heartwrenching, but Christ, she deactivated her Paypal just so that people couldn't make her into a professional victim! And you're here doing something to somebody that you keep slamming Anita for! You need to think harder before posting, OP!

If those are her wishes, those are her wishes, and I'm not in any position to tell her she's wrong.

I just want to interject that just because we're talking about this and reflecting on it doesn't mean we're making her a 'professional victim.'

I know that, I'm not mad at you guys for discussing this now that the thread is made, I'm mad at the OP for thinking that doing this was a good idea.

 

[Netrigan]

It's actually probably because she isn't high profile enough.

Most people on these forums know who Anita Sarkeesian is, she's had at least two threads a week dedicated to her for about two years. On the other hand, I doubt 99% of people here have heard of this girl until now.

She's just someone who makes YouTube videos. It's terrible that she was on the receiving end of harassment but game journalists are hardly going to report on every instance of harassment on the internet.

That's not me saying that it happens all of the time so it's okay. I just mean that journalists, not just game journalists, will write about stories that people will read. It's the same as celebrity magazines focusing on high-profile celebrities, they don't dedicate a lot of column inches to D-listers because a majority of their readership don't care.

Yeah, but how important were Quinn and Sarkeesian before their harassment? I suppose slightly more so than Jayd, but I could be wrong. I'm a bit more cynical about it. journalists rarely ever try to be objective in assessments and if they came across this woman's channel and her videos, I'm guessing they would ignore the harassment and never cover the potential story because much of gaming journalism is honestly still on the side of Sarkeesian and Quinn, whether rightly so or not. The major potential for this becoming bigger is if Jayd were to come back making videos because people like Internet Aristocrat and Mundane Matt shed light on the story and requested she come back and make more videos, which seems like the second likeliest option after this story not spreading/Jayd never coming back.

Sarkeesian was pretty much made by the out-of-proportion reaction to her Kickstarter campaign. It went up the food chain pretty quickly.

But all news stories aren't created equal. There's a ton of reasons why a particular story goes up the chain while a similar one doesn't. The Ferguson story is really the pay-off to a whole bunch of different things. If had a possible police murder, a town fed up with racist cops, paramilitary cops pointing weapons at unarmed civilians, a general unease with the number of news stories involving unarmed suspects being gunned down by cops, the escalation of police fire power and the sense that this is going too far. Yadda yadda yadda. Same basic story in Utah with a white kid getting gunned down by a black cop and it gets a bit of traction early on as yet another example of police over-reaction before dying... and getting picked up by the Right which spins it into "why aren't you hearing about this story?" with the "answer" being because it doesn't fit the narrative of the Left Wing media.

Which ignores all those other reasons why Brown's killing became a huge story. It's just a much bigger, much sexier story from just about every angle you can think of.

So in one corner, we have Zoe and Anita who are creating something. One created a praised game, the other was the first to attempt to bring Feminist Criticism to video games. In the other corner, someone who mocks their efforts in satirical videos. Sarkeesian would have already had a network of supporters prior to the Kickstarter campaign and they're used to dealing with the media and likely know how to frame their story and provide the necessary information to get their story out. Zoe had the creator of Fez in her corner. All of them made sure their story got out to friendly media outlets.

Jayd3Fox seems to have done little more than make a good-bye video. She's got no one in her corner but other YouTubers, none of any particular note outside their little niche of Anita-criticizers. I doubt anyone has bothered to bring her story to any outlet who won't spin it as "why isn't her story being told?"

 

[AdamG3691]

I can't find myself being offended by it. It's just the Right Wing Hitler card. Every time they use the term, they officially lose the argument... because if you can't make your case without using self-evident hyperbole, then I pretty much assume you're blowing everything else out of proportion, too.

I freaking HATE that stupid "rule" especially because the "lose the argument" part isn't even godwins law. godwins law is simply "as the post count in any online debate rises, the probability of something being compared to the nazis rises to 1"

NOTHING about "losing the argument"

 

[Skatologist]

Sarkeesian was pretty much made by the out-of-proportion reaction to her Kickstarter campaign. It went up the food chain pretty quickly.

But all news stories aren't created equal. There's a ton of reasons why a particular story goes up the chain while a similar one doesn't. The Ferguson story is really the pay-off to a whole bunch of different things. If had a possible police murder, a town fed up with racist cops, paramilitary cops pointing weapons at unarmed civilians, a general unease with the number of news stories involving unarmed suspects being gunned down by cops, the escalation of police fire power and the sense that this is going too far. Yadda yadda yadda. Same basic story in Utah with a white kid getting gunned down by a black cop and it gets a bit of traction early on as yet another example of police over-reaction before dying... and getting picked up by the Right which spins it into "why aren't you hearing about this story?" with the "answer" being because it doesn't fit the narrative of the Left Wing media.

Which ignores all those other reasons why Brown's killing became a huge story. It's just a much bigger, much sexier story from just about every angle you can think of.

So in one corner, we have Zoe and Anita who are creating something. One created a praised game, the other was the first to attempt to bring Feminist Criticism to video games. In the other corner, someone who mocks their efforts in satirical videos. Sarkeesian would have already had a network of supporters prior to the Kickstarter campaign and they're used to dealing with the media and likely know how to frame their story and provide the necessary information to get their story out. Zoe had the creator of Fez in her corner. All of them made sure their story got out to friendly media outlets.

Jayd3Fox seems to have done little more than make a good-bye video. She's got no one in her corner but other YouTubers, none of any particular note outside their little niche of Anita-criticizers. I doubt anyone has bothered to bring her story to any outlet who won't spin it as "why isn't her story being told?"

Well that's a pretty interesting way to look at it, but most stories start out as "Why isn't this story being told?" I remember it happening with the Trayvon Martin on smaller sites and news stations stating that Zimmerman needed to at least have a trial (at least i believe that was the case, people seemed to be angry that a trial hadn't been called for Zimmerman yet). I think I expected the same to the Zoe thing too.

I suppose the things worth talking about most are the things that are a small part of bigger issues, or at least appear to be (Quinn coming to mind), except what happens in celebrities lives, that is usually pretty meaningless yet it gets covered often. It's odd because I always assume stories are displayed to show a bias on one side's favor (I go to quite a few atheist news sites and they usually have a more anti-theistic opinion of things and make things sound much more clear cut while they are at least a bit more grey) and other stories are ignored because they can't necessarily be defended well by reporters/journalists/bloggers. Thankfully, your statement here is at least allowing me to reshape my opinion a bit. I usually use a similar argument to yours on why near objectively good things are never reported on the news.