#GamerGate Needs Damage Control Badly (Small OP Update)

[Lady Larunai]

I would say the fact that the Escapist is pretty much the only place allowing the discussion to take place is reason enough for the huge influx of people talking about it. That being said, I agree conceded earlier that there are likely people swept up in this that are primarily interested in the ethics aspect of this whole debacle, but this thing started as harassment, and you'd can't just whitewash that history.

Sure, the whole debacle started because Quinn's ex aired her dirty laundry. That doesn't invalidate anything that was uncovered afterwards or the press' general reaction to it however, and that's what's still on-going.

Gladly.

http://blog.pricecharting.com/2012/09/emilyami-sexism-in-video-games-study.html

Spoiler

Women were four times more likely than men to have experienced taunting or harassment, with 63.3% of all female participants responding that they had. The stories that these women told me regarding their experiences are similar to what one might think of regarding this topic. ?****,? ?*****,? ?slut,? and ?whore? were common slurs. The threats were largely of sexual assault. Much of the harassment was based around asking for or demanding sexual favors or comments that revolved around the traditional gender role and stereotyped behavior for women in Western society. Many of the insults were based on the subject's weight or physical appearance.


15.7% of men also reported that they had experienced sex-based taunting, harassment, or threats while playing video games. While this is in the minority, it is still of concern as sexism. The comments directed at these gamers, however, are different from those directed at women in some very telling ways. Most of the men who provided additional information on their ?yes? response to this question experienced comments that revolved around them not fitting a masculine gender role. These men were often called ?fags? and compared to or told that they were women and labeled with stereotypically feminine words.

And online harassment in general:

http://www.npr.org/2014/01/08/260757625/internet-harassment-of-women-when-haters-do-more-than-just-hate

Spoiler

HESS: Sure. Well, there hasn't been a huge body of research on this issue, but there have been a few organizations and legal scholars who are beginning to dig into it who have been able to sort of isolate some statistics that show that women are disproportionately affected by online threats and harassment. The Pew Research Center is...
MARTIN: Well, you cite some of that in your piece, for example, in 2006, researchers from the University of Maryland set up a bunch of fake online accounts and then sent them into chat rooms. And you said that accounts with female usernames or feminine usernames incurred an average of 100 sexually explicit or threatening messages a day and the masculine names received 3.7. And that you said that there was another study by the Pew Research Center, which has been tracking the online lives of Americans for more than a decade, that women and men have been logging on in equal numbers since the year 2000, but that the kinds of communications we're talking about are disproportionally lobbed at women. Any idea why?
HESS: Well, I think when you have any group that is traditionally marginalized in life, you're going to see a similar marginalization online because the Internet is really intimately connected to our real lives. So when we talk about women being oversensitive, that's also a complaint that's been applied to women who pursue sexual harassment litigation against their employers.

Jenn Frank? Mattie Brice? This? http://www.businessinsider.com/women-programmers-stories-of-harassment-2013-3 Or this? http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment Or this? http://kotaku.com/she-was-harassed-by-a-games-reporter-now-shes-speakin-1510714971 How many more do I need to find?

None really, you can't argue against sources. The only thing I'd contest there are the polygon and kotaku articles and Jenn Frank. Frank was harassed for the same reason Devin Faraci is getting shit on Twitter, she hopped on the 'gamers are dead' bandwagon, and Kotaku and Polygon's trustworthiness has been rather severely undermined by recent events.

The rest I can't disagree with however, and I tip my hat to you. Women do appear to receive more anonymous abuse over the internet.

I like to refer to this one myself http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/09/04/men-are-harassed-more-than-women-online.html

 

[Jux]

It's not "4chan can't do something like this". It's "4chan can't do something like this... in complete secrecy". Literally everything on the board is public and anonymous, all of the discussion is in the open and available to the public eye, so how do they manage all of that?

Secrecy? I basically pointed out a number of quotes from the IRC log planning the harassment. The fact that it snowballed might have been out of their control, but they started it.

Furthermore, as mentioned earlier, Quinn's conclusions regarding the chat segments she grabbed generally don't even match the chat she highlights to support them, which immediately pulls into question the legitimacy of her overall conclusion.

Which has what to do with me exactly?

Further-furthermore, let's assume you're right and 4chan did orchestrate thezoepost and manufactured outrage in order to harass Quinn (despite the fact that Grayson and Quinn's relationship was confirmed by Totillo and no one personally involved has actually denied any of it), how does that in any way negate everything else that's come up since then? How is all of the evidence that's come up about cronyism, conflicts of interest, the complete lack of barrier between press and their subjects, cherry-picking stories to best fit their narrative, and all of the other stuff that's been dragged kicking and screaming into the light in any way negated by the whole thing being started because a handful of jackasses wanted to harass a woman over the internet? How does that actually work?

You may as well point to colonialism and say 'but look at all the good that came out of it!'.

Never said you did. You provided the article as your argument why gamergate's full of shit, I disagreed, provided my arguments for why I disagreed, and (and this part probably should have been more clear, but I'm tired) I asked for your rebuttal.

And my rebuttal is the same now as it was before, nothing has changed there.

Sure, go play the game, and it becomes fairly obvious. Anders' character was extremely mutated from DA:A to DA2, enough so that his sexual orientation changed entirely, as was Isabella's, though to a significantly lesser extent given her smaller role in DA:O.

I played the game, and the fact that the characters were given poor writing is not evidence that the poor writing was a direct result of inclusivity. If that were the case, then the changing the writing wouldn't have made it better, since the core problem would have been 'inclusivity'. It wasn't the core problem though, the writing was.

Again, because I'm sensing you trying to lay a verbal trap of some kind, I have no goddamn issue with games becoming more inclusive or diverse or whatever. I don't particularly care what I'm playing or who I'm playing as, so long as it's interesting and fun.

That said, I still maintain that the writing was as poor as it was because they shoehorned in the inclusivity and didn't know how to handle it. They absolutely could have done it better and it would have been fine. There's nothing wrong with inclusivity and diversity in and of itself. What's wrong is that the team on DA2 didn't know how to handle it, but they did it anyway, and it created a shoddy product.

The writing was poor because the writers were either bad or lazy. That has nothing to do with them trying to make the game more inclusive.

I'm not arguing hypotheticals here. They forced every character to be bisexual in the name of inclusivity when they couldn't handle it and the game was made worse as a result. That's it.

Which is the product of bad writing.

Except that's not what happened. It's basically the same thing that happened to TFYC, except Larian had an out in buckling to pressure. If they hadn't changed it, the game would have been run into the ground, regardless of its merit or lack thereof, purely on the assumption that it was sexist. It's censorship by committee.

Boohoo, you may as well claim that boycotts are censorship then. (They aren't). No one is keeping the guy from drawing how he wants. But just because he wants to draw a certain way doesn't mean he's owed the chance to put that art in a game, unless he wants to develop and publish the game himself.

Not really, because murdering someone then takes away someone's ability to choose. See how that works? It's called the Law of Equal Liberty [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_equal_liberty].

Christ on a cracker I feel like I'm arguing with a libertarian. Look, you said that forcing views on someone is never acceptable. I have already shown this to be false, both in the case of parenting and in the social contract. Regardless of the Law of Equal Liberty, I have already demonstrated that we force the view on people that murder is bad and it won't be tolerated. Hell, if you don't like that example, use the 'but I don't want to pay taxes!' example. We have an entire system of laws based on forcing a particular view on everyone. That's kinda one of those things that comes along with being a social creature.

Furthermore, no one in gaming is forcing anyone to do anything. No one is putting a gun to anyones head here.

 

[Monokuma]

Secrecy? I basically pointed out a number of quotes from the IRC log planning the harassment. The fact that it snowballed might have been out of their control, but they started it.

You didn't point out somebody planning the harassment. You cherry-picked some quotes from individuals and presented them without context. How did the rest of the room react to those statements you quoted? Who exactly are those individuals in question, regular lurkers or just some anon jumping into the room for the first time just to disappear shortly afterwards? Was the statement something made in jest?
When you quote things, please be so kind and at least provide the necessary context. Cherry picking is a really, really bad thing and almost automatically robs your argument of any legitimacy whatsoever, especially when you claim that it proves something as bad and heinous as a harassment campaign.

 

[geK0]

Honestly, I had no idea people took game journalism THIS seriously.

Edit:
Wait, this is the same community who's most controversial figure is some pretentious amateur feminist blogger who's name will trigger a 20 page flame war; yea, no shock there I guess.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

snip

I agree with your assertion here - in most cases.

Then, sometimes, the coincidences absolutely strain credulity. The time line, the connections to exactly one woman (who herself is proclaiming the ability to craft the entire narrative to her liking), and the incredible similarities in tone and vocabulary - these things point not to what I'd deem a "conspiracy" but rather a concerted effort by a group of people with a stranglehold on a certain segment of media. And that's really exactly what you're describing when you say "this isn't evidence of some grand conspiracy directing the GamerGate movement, it's just a bunch of people who all believe (more or less) the same thing who are constantly spitballing things both in public and in private." I never believed it to be anything more than this, though I'd certainly accuse Maya of essentially "pulling the strings" or influencing events with regard to disseminating the overriding message. Regardless, that's all bad. Half the reason we're in this mess is the absence of alternate opinions and voices within this portion of media, and we've seen nothing from them but a firm declaration that they will not cede total ownership of the story.

That's when a person like me simply turns the channel.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Honestly, I had no idea people took game journalism THIS seriously.

Not sure this merits a serious response given the context (literally, a gaming enthusiasts forum), but the "journalists" were obviously taking it that seriously insofar as they recognized the potential reach and power of their platforms for influencing and changing the culture to suit their beliefs. If they had combined this with a modicum of respect for the job/audience and professional integrity, we really wouldn't be in this situation.

 

[geK0]

Honestly, I had no idea people took game journalism THIS seriously.

Not sure this merits a serious response given the context (literally, a gaming enthusiasts forum), but the "journalists" were obviously taking it that seriously insofar as they recognized the potential reach and power of their platforms for influencing and changing the culture to suit their beliefs. If they had combined this with a modicum of respect for the job/audience and professional integrity, we really wouldn't be in this situation.

Normally when I read an article with political undertones that annoy or offend me, or an article who's writer was clearly paid off by a AAA developer, I just roll my eyes and move on to the next webpage; I don't get in an outrage over journalistic integrity and spam people's in-boxes with death threats.

I can accept that game journalism is more casual than other forms of media and doesn't really have a self-governing body, and I don't hold it to such high standards because of that. I enjoy reading game articles, but of course there's going to be some biased opinions, of course there's going to be some people receiving payment to endorse certain products and of course there's going to be some people who want to help out their friends in the industry by talking about their projects (it's really not THAT big a deal).I'd still rather have all that than some overly formalized "Game journalism board of ethics" governing every amateur game's blogger who manages to find employment with a major website like Escapist, Kotaku, Destructoid.

I very much prefer reading small-time journalists saying whatever the hell they feel like saying to some boring, stagnant, highly regulated news firm.

That's just my two cents though, I'm sorry if you were mislead by some guy tried to help out his girlfriend by writing a positive review of her indie steam game. And I'm REALLY sorry that you're upset by "SJWs" talking about egalitarianism and feminism and such in their articles (how dare they?!).


Edit:
Just to clarify, when I said "I didn't realize people took games journalism THIS seriously." I meant that I didn't think people took it so seriously that they would feel the need to harass and threaten games bloggers; but who am I fucking kidding? I've received death threats for having a kill:death ratio lower than 1 in some games, why am I even surprised?

 

[Netrigan]

snip

I agree with your assertion here - in most cases.

Then, sometimes, the coincidences absolutely strain credulity. The time line, the connections to exactly one woman (who herself is proclaiming the ability to craft the entire narrative to her liking), and the incredible similarities in tone and vocabulary - these things point not to what I'd deem a "conspiracy" but rather a concerted effort by a group of people with a stranglehold on a certain segment of media. And that's really exactly what you're describing when you say "this isn't evidence of some grand conspiracy directing the GamerGate movement, it's just a bunch of people who all believe (more or less) the same thing who are constantly spitballing things both in public and in private." I never believed it to be anything more than this, though I'd certainly accuse Maya of essentially "pulling the strings" or influencing events with regard to disseminating the overriding message. Regardless, that's all bad. Half the reason we're in this mess is the absence of alternate opinions and voices within this portion of media, and we've seen nothing from them but a firm declaration that they will not cede total ownership of the story.

That's when a person like me simply turns the channel.

Hate to say it, but if you want your position out there, you're going to have to bootstrap it.

The closest you have to natural allies in the press are the Conservative media outlets, but good luck trying to get Fox "SeXbox" News to go after Feminists who are criticizing strippers and prostitutes in video games. The Left is more on the Feminist side. You're stuck awkwardly between the two with views too extreme for both.

 

[Jux]

Secrecy? I basically pointed out a number of quotes from the IRC log planning the harassment. The fact that it snowballed might have been out of their control, but they started it.

You didn't point out somebody planning the harassment. You cherry-picked some quotes from individuals and presented them without context. How did the rest of the room react to those statements you quoted? Who exactly are those individuals in question, regular lurkers or just some anon jumping into the room for the first time just to disappear shortly afterwards? Was the statement something made in jest?
When you quote things, please be so kind and at least provide the necessary context. Cherry picking is a really, really bad thing and almost automatically robs your argument of any legitimacy whatsoever, especially when you claim that it proves something as bad and heinous as a harassment campaign.

Sorry, but you don't get to use anonymity as a shield here, that's not how it works. If you think I'm taking it out of context, start providing some, but I've already shown that people wanted to harass her, and there is evidence she is being harassed. That's about a clear a connection as you're going to get.

 

[james.sponge]

Of course gamersgate needs damage control but so does so called press and people who presumably speak for the industry. I find it hilarious that a piece of writing like that [https://archive.today/vT7vp] could appear on a site like gamesutra.

 

[Dante dynamite]

Secrecy? I basically pointed out a number of quotes from the IRC log planning the harassment. The fact that it snowballed might have been out of their control, but they started it.

but there is no proof that they started it there is no physical correlation can you prove that the people who posted on the IRC are the same people as those on 4chan, and just because they say they are from 4chan, the reliability of the anonymous postings, the thing is 4chan has no members, anyone can post for any amount of time about anything, anyone could have been in those IRC's even people who have never been, proving that 4chan is posting in IRC is as difficult that I posted in the IRC. Also your taking such a small part of the IRC that has a ton of posts as evidence of the general direction of the discussion.

You may as well point to colonialism and say 'but look at all the good that came out of it!'.

let me ask you, how much do you know about colonialism and countries that still suffer from ties to neo-colonialism,but also greatly benefits, have studied the economic reports of Zimbabwe, and the effect of kicking out all foreigners from the country, believing that it was still the oppression of colonialism, yet completely destroyed their economy, or ever read litterary works like Devil on the Cross by Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, or the purple hibiscus by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie and the effect of the foreigner's leaving the country to suddenly govern itself,and those who see the freedom as more of a bane than a blessing. actually that sentence is completely false equivalency now that I think about it.

Boohoo, you may as well claim that boycotts are censorship then. (They aren't). No one is keeping the guy from drawing how he wants. But just because he wants to draw a certain way doesn't mean he's owed the chance to put that art in a game, unless he wants to develop and publish the game himself.

and what about what happened to TFYC wasn't what happened to them censorship, where they were blacklisted by journalist because of the accusations of Zoe Quinn and then get blackmailed by her, to work as a consultant, then she will stop her accusations, and when that didn't work she blackmailed them, the harassment levied against them from Zoe was unfair and she was keeping them from helping create a piece of art that helped promote women, what about them, they were silenced, you just make it about Larian but complete side step what happened to TFYC
Source: http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/09/09/6977/truth-gaming-interview-fine-young-capitalists

Christ on a cracker I feel like I'm arguing with a libertarian. Look, you said that forcing views on someone is never acceptable. I have already shown this to be false, both in the case of parenting and in the social contract. Regardless of the Law of Equal Liberty, I have already demonstrated that we force the view on people that murder is bad and it won't be tolerated. Hell, if you don't like that example, use the 'but I don't want to pay taxes!' example. We have an entire system of laws based on forcing a particular view on everyone. That's kinda one of those things that comes along with being a social creature.

Furthermore, no one in gaming is forcing anyone to do anything. No one is putting a gun to anyone's head here.

What about parents who force their views of hatred on children, these children will grow up with these views because they are easily susceptible and impressionable and are more likely to believe the things that their parents tell them, they will perpetuate this form the res of their lives, and in social contact people always can force their views on people how do you think people are grouped into cults, they are tricked into it or given a false hope of something better,this is then followed by giving that person a dependency on the community, through a complete emotional and spiritual bashing until they are ready to be remolded, once that is done and they are dependent on that society it becomes extremely difficult for them to leave and are forced to have their views coincide with the rest of that societies.

through most of your comments, out speak from a place of ignorance, quoting and claiming things you don't seem to fully comprehend and use logical fallacies to fill the gaps of your argument.

 

[Karadalis]

A Thread full of trench warfare.

Its like a Creationist vs Atheist debatte in here.

Fact is that there was something wrong in game journalism and it had to do with the gaming press condemning their own audience, ALL of their audience for the actions of a few nutjobs that EVERYONE agreed where real douchebags while on the other hand supporting people who keep spewing out blatant and obvious lies about games and gamers on "academic" youtube videos so far as to give these people bloody awards for their lies.

People finaly had enough and counter reacted. They had enough being told how evil they where by the SJW tumbler crowd. They had enough of being told how much they suck and how everyone should be ashamed to be called a gamer by the gaming press.

When it then leaked that some of the gaming press had closer ties to the people they supported then is healthy for a journalist ofcourse the whole thing exploded.

People where rightfully pissed off about professional victims using stereotypes and questionable proof to gain large sums of money from "supporters" abusing the very nature of the internet (anonymity) to fabricate proof under questionable circumstances and claim that their "harassment" is somehow more special and more vicious then the harassment anyone receives on the internet when he or she is making their opinions public. The difference is that those other peoples dont go begging for donations with puppydog eyes after they received those threats.

Up to this day not a single human being connected to gaming was killed or raped after being threatened on tumblr or youtube. No one who hasnt a death wish is going to announce their crime publically and in advance. Yes these threats are disgusting and bullshit but they are the equivalent of a six year old shouting at his older brother that hes going to kill him when they are getting in a fight.

Generalisation is bad, that goes for both people. However i see alot of "reigning" in on the site of gamers and gamergate but i hardly ever see any on the site of those who are against gamergate. This thread being a prime example of the hypocrisy thats prevelant on the anti gamergate crowd.

Wich i mostly attribute to the fact that most of those who are really interested in human rights do not care about gaming or see gaming as one of the big issues in modern day culture to begin with.

 

[Vibhor]

and there is evidence she is being harassed.

What exactly is the evidence that she is being harassed? I am genuinely curious for I haven't seen anything.

 

[webkilla]

and there is evidence she is being harassed.

What exactly is the evidence that she is being harassed? I am genuinely curious for I haven't seen anything.

Ya its kinda tricky that way

Its very easy for people like Anita and Quinn to fake their own harasment - all they need is a burn email and TOR and then they can send themselves all kinds of poorly worded threats that they can in turn take to social media and complain about.

...oh I'm not doubting that some idiots have actually sent threats - but I don't think either of them have ever been in any actual danger from those.

 

[rbstewart7263]

I educated myself today on what exactly has been going down and ended up with more questions than answers. Don't get me wrong, I understand the facts of the situation. I understand who said and did what (many of whom are ancillary at best and blatantly irrelevant at worst), and I understand what the point of #GamerGate is. I get it, people want a more accountable gaming press as well as a more ethical and fair Indy development scene.

But what the fuck is all this unrelated bullshit doing here? Why have the lines been drawn between so-called 'SJWs' and 'misogynerd' (or whatever the fuck they're called)? Why is feminism a factor at all? Oh wait, I see, many of the 'misogynerds' are saying that the Indy/Gaming Press Illuminati is using feminism/misogyny as a smokescreen to censor debate. Well if that's the case, then why the fuck are women, some of which have NO connection to any of this (like Anita), getting bombarded with harassment in the form of death and rape threats in relation to this?

You really wonder why people aren't giving #GamerGate the time of day? Really? It doesn't compute? STOP GIVING THEM AMMO! Teach the idiots within your ranks to keep their goddamn mouths shut. Whether you agree with their insane ravings or not, they are associated with your movement and their actions do reflect on your message. The only thing holding me back from supporting this movement is the simple fact that it is so over-saturated with immature, volatile and outright hateful people that I can't bring myself to support it. I cringe every time I see one of your ilk cry "Social Justice Warrior" and that Vivian James (or whatever) mascot is just a sad attempt at the "but I have black friends" defense.

Don't get me wrong, I won't for a second sit here and tell you that I give a damn about any Indy developers and publications getting thrown under the bus if they deserve it. If they are guilty of the crimes they've been accused of, then of course they deserve to be brought down for it; but you know, in an ethical, mature and humane way. Any prying into their personal lives or threats against them are obviously crossing the line, but that should go without saying.

If you want a more accountable gaming press, you're going to have to prove that you deserve it. Some of the more visible names on the #GamerGate side of the fence are clearly concerned about what truly matters, but many more seemingly are not.

Please, tell me if I am off-base, because from where I stand I think I am actually being more fair to #GamerGate than it deserves. As someone who studied journalism, I have always been critical of the gaming press' integrity, so I am naturally inclined to throw in my support; but this case is not so simple. I will not associate myself with a movement that is harassing and threatening people nor one that sees fit to blame everything on feminism of all things.

Define your message and cease this childish 'SJW' finger pointing. Look to the men that inspired the movement's namesake: Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, and follow their example. They were professionals who acted with discretion, and if your movement wants to be taken seriously so do you.

/flameshieldactivated

SMALL UPDATE: At least something good came out of all this - http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/editorials/12223-The-Escapist-Publisher-Issues-Public-Statement-on-Gamergate

In the end, I think most of us really wanted the same thing.

Its for this reason that I cant fully stand behind everything that goes on in gamergate. Many are proud to be in the right but some are just too extreme. Not like bomb you extreme mind you. I read one thread in kotakuinaction where this dude was relating how jim had soured and was too far gone to the wrong side of things. I thought his video was a middle as you could ever get and I liked it.

 

[Jux]

and there is evidence she is being harassed.

What exactly is the evidence that she is being harassed? I am genuinely curious for I haven't seen anything.

Do you not consider sending nude photos, doxxing and making threatening phone calls harassment? I'm sorry, but Quinn's sex life is not in the realm of public interest, the very fact that the conversation proliferated as much as it did is in itself harassment.

 

[Jux]

Secrecy? I basically pointed out a number of quotes from the IRC log planning the harassment. The fact that it snowballed might have been out of their control, but they started it.

but there is no proof that they started it there is no physical correlation can you prove that the people who posted on the IRC are the same people as those on 4chan, and just because they say they are from 4chan, the reliability of the anonymous postings, the thing is 4chan has no members, anyone can post for any amount of time about anything, anyone could have been in those IRC's even people who have never been, proving that 4chan is posting in IRC is as difficult that I posted in the IRC. Also your taking such a small part of the IRC that has a ton of posts as evidence of the general direction of the discussion.

And guess what? I give zero fucks. This isn't the court of law, it's the court of opinion, and this more than meets the preponderance of evidence for me.

let me ask you, how much do you know about colonialism and countries that still suffer from ties to neo-colonialism,but also greatly benefits, have studied the economic reports of Zimbabwe, and the effect of kicking out all foreigners from the country, believing that it was still the oppression of colonialism, yet completely destroyed their economy, or ever read litterary works like Devil on the Cross by Ngũgĩ wa Thiong'o, or the purple hibiscus by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie and the effect of the foreigner's leaving the country to suddenly govern itself,and those who see the freedom as more of a bane than a blessing. actually that sentence is completely false equivalency now that I think about it.

Unless you're going to make a point here, I'm just going to chalk this up as 'yea, but colonialism actually wasn't all that bad'. And no, it's not a false equivalence because I'm not equivocating anything. I'm pointing out the concept that good things that come out of shitty things don't automatically make the shitty things done any less shitty.

and what about what happened to TFYC wasn't what happened to them censorship, where they were blacklisted by journalist because of the accusations of Zoe Quinn and then get blackmailed by her, to work as a consultant, then she will stop her accusations, and when that didn't work she blackmailed them, the harassment levied against them from Zoe was unfair and she was keeping them from helping create a piece of art that helped promote women, what about them, they were silenced, you just make it about Larian but complete side step what happened to TFYC
Source: http://apgnation.com/archives/2014/09/09/6977/truth-gaming-interview-fine-young-capitalists

Not censorship there either chief. Rad was under no obligation to publish any article for TFYC, and it was her call. If she didn't feel the accusations stood up, she could have went ahead and published. The only evidence of bribery is the word of the guy that said he was bribed, sorry if I don't take that as gospel. And your source says nothing about blackmail, so until you can provide a source on that, just going to discount that.

What about parents who force their views of hatred on children, these children will grow up with these views because they are easily susceptible and impressionable and are more likely to believe the things that their parents tell them, they will perpetuate this form the res of their lives, and in social contact people always can force their views on people how do you think people are grouped into cults, they are tricked into it or given a false hope of something better,this is then followed by giving that person a dependency on the community, through a complete emotional and spiritual bashing until they are ready to be remolded, once that is done and they are dependent on that society it becomes extremely difficult for them to leave and are forced to have their views coincide with the rest of that societies.

through most of your comments, out speak from a place of ignorance, quoting and claiming things you don't seem to fully comprehend and use logical fallacies to fill the gaps of your argument.

What about those parents? They're shitty parents, but that doesn't invalidate what I said in the slightest. I love it though that you're going to tell me I don't understand and I use logical fallacies without providing evidence for either.

 

[ihavetoregister]

Why does Anita keep coming up? Maybe because people not familiar with the tag who read biased articles think it's about harassing her. Those are the only people I've seen mentioning her.