Games That Threaten The Industry

[Vinculi]

Well, World of Warcraft obviousy (yes, it's, I know it's an MMORPG, stop throwing your Captain Picard figurines at me)

How is a flexible, balanced MMO, in which the company LISTENS to its fanbase, a danger to gaming? Because its popular, and does MMOs right? If MMO's want to compete; they should come up with original ideas, and get them to work. WoWs idea was accessability, and it worked pretty damn good.

The issue with WoW is likely *because* its done right. It encourages obsessive play to the exclusion of other games, even those of a similar genre, due to the cost of subscribing to multiple MMOs. While it is a GOOD thing for Blizzard and WoW players, it could be very bad for the industry, as it monopolises the game time of people who are clearly avid gamers who would, in a world without MMOs, be buying more games from more publishers, thereby increasing the competition that the industry needs to prevent stagnation.

Don't take this all as a WoW hate rant, the same can just as easily be said of MW2, or even Farmville or any of popcap's releases.

EDIT= Also madden, NBA etc, anything that releases every year with a new number at the end.

 

[Thaius]

Umm... with all due respect, that's not an issue.

Call of Duty is a good series. Just because young kids are stupid and shallow doesn't mean Call of Duty has somehow caused it any more than people committing crimes means they were spurred to by violent video games: the logic is the same. Shallow people looking for a mindless, fast-paced shoot-em-up will go to them (and use none of the potential strategy for it at that). Some people are stupid and shallow: that is not the fault of any game, but rather, their shallowness will drive them to one genre, usually the one that offers the most game-related thrills with the least amount of thought.

 

[Croix Sinistre]

Whichever game that caused gaming to go from completely nerdy, to cool and mainstream.

We all know popularity makes things shite.

...Let me elaborate before i get alot of "popularity =/= bad" replies. Thats not what i'm saying, I'm saying that now that gaming is popular, game companies have to focus on a larger market. Sure games might be bigger budges affairs now, but alot of that goes into making the game cater to everyone and their grandma. It's all about the sales. Thats why we dont see anymore of that SNES/Genesis Era innovation, the companies dont want to take the risk and develop a game with an off the wall plot, silly characters, and a scorpion shaped gun that shoots banana rockets. They look at the past success of games like (mentioned above) Halo, Call of Duty, Starcraft, Diablo, WoW, GTA, and God of War and ask themselves "what about those games made them popular and how can we get the same result?", and then we find ourselves going "well this is just like _insert game here_"

And thus we have an endless cycle of mind-numbing uninspired games because if all you need is gritty realism, macho main characters, good graphics and loud noises then games will eventually become just that.

I realize its no one game that started it all, but that turning point is whats causing the creative side of gaming to stagnate. Its all about the $$$.

Music fans can relate to me about this too, how many bands do you know about that were unheard of before, and once they made it big the 'sold out', changed their looks, their music and their message to cater to a larger audience

 

[Ldude893]

Spoiler

The abomination.

 

[Cid Silverwing]

Every single superpopular game ever (and movie too, quite frankly) threatens the industry with the creation of depressingly retarded fans, moneymilking, homogenizing of contents and degrading of substantiality.

Titles include Halo, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Resident Evil, Splinter Cell, Battlefield and so on.

 

[Sikachu]

CSS and 1.6 more than most other games. It's so hard to see the point of other multiplayer FPS when you're already chasing the dragon.

 

[vivec710]

Casual Gaming. All it's for is kids and old people. Yeah it may open people up to gameing that wouldn't otherwise play games, but that's all they wnat to play because they're not coordinated enough to hit multiple buttons. Or they're brain can't comprehend what all the buttons do, so they stick with motion controls or games that use two buttons.

Hopefully this whole thign blows over, I haven't really heard much from it in awhile so I really hope we don't hear anything about casual games for a long long time.

And no I'm not necessarily bashing on the Wii because there are some decent games on that system, I just don't like the fact that one system gets regulated to getting shit games.

 

[Thyunda]

Umm... with all due respect, that's not an issue.

Call of Duty is a good series. Just because young kids are stupid and shallow doesn't mean Call of Duty has somehow caused it any more than people committing crimes means they were spurred to by violent video games: the logic is the same. Shallow people looking for a mindless, fast-paced shoot-em-up will go to them (and use none of the potential strategy for it at that). Some people are stupid and shallow: that is not the fault of any game, but rather, their shallowness will drive them to one genre, usually the one that offers the most game-related thrills with the least amount of thought.

Did you by any chance just read the original post? Because, you'll find, my good sir, that you have missed my point entirely.

Half Life 2 is a threat to other games, not in that it takes their sales; but in that it corrupts them, twisting them in it's own average image. Before Half Life 2 we had few games aboot power-armored non-characters fighting generically evil aliens, using generic weapons, while assisted by an annoying shoe-horned in minority sidekick/love interest.
Also: Valve is a proponent of digital distribution which is also bad.

My internal monologue had a canadian accent for the remainder of reading your post


My opinion is that there is no industry threatening games. If someone makes a very popular shooter like CoD6, you try to make a better shooter like BC2!

Someone makes an action packed game about space marines that sells awesomely? (halo)
Someone else makes another one that sells well? (Gear of War)
You make EVEN COOLER SPACE MARINES! (haze and a whole hell lot more)

If the industry is ruined due to a certain game, well, the industry isn't very competitive.

I agree that Battlefield: Bad Company 2 is superior to Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, but can you imagine if I used my sample audience in an attempt to purchase it? He'll probably watch me play it, and get all excited over it. Then, when it comes to his turn, he'd take it out of the disk drive, put it in its box and play MW2 instead.

This is the problem I'm trying to highlight. While ignorant teenagers such as my brother sit and play a single game all the time, how long will it be before other developers see a game gaining the same momentum as MW2, and just giving up? Your game may be three times as awesome, but how do you propose the MW2 players find it? They won't go out, they won't watch TV, they won't see billboards. No advertising could work, your game would just fade into the background before it even shows up.
The only real medium would have to be word of mouth...and I've already explained how effective that would be.

 

[Sixties Spidey]

Hm... Wii? Maybe? Motion controls are still somewhat in its infancy...

Playstation Move and the Microsoft Wave (or Project Natal) are brave steps towards trying to make it better, but I'm not convinced it's the right time for it. Maybe when the Wii can produce great games from third party developers, but other than that, all what we have on the Wii at this stage are games that would work better with a traditional controller. Red Steel 2 being an exception to this.

Wait.. what?
Brave steps, implementing a technology that no one has ever used in ages because it was deemed to gimmicky, that was brave, copying the same product that another company used and trying to steal that other company's success (or at least trying to) it pretty stupid and cowardly if you ask me.

And how are they making it better? The things aren't even out yet. Get some facts or at least some serious opinions behind your posts, the only things we've seen so far that are getting released with the wii accesories for 360 and ps3, are pretty much "mature" versions of wii mini-games, by mature I of course mean, with no color.

...also, wii is the best thing that could have happened to gaming as a whole, now even grandparents know that gaming is not something "evil" and "weird" that kids do, because now they fucking do it too. Game Overthinker (aka. moviebob) has expressed it way better than I have in the past but the point remains, the more gaming becomes mainstream, the better for all of us.

Conduit= Would've worked with a controller as well as it did with the Wii Remote.
Twilight Princess= Swinging controls activate the sword, best substituted by a button press.
Madworld= QTE's, chainsaw, etc. would work with a controller.
Punch Out Wii: Motion controls work, but a lot of people mainly played with the horizontal "NES" style of controls.

And as for your argument, "How are they making them better?" Well, think about this. The Move has 1:1 built in, and the games they are using to demonstrate the thing are games like SOCOM. So there's proof saying "Hey! It will work for our core games! And Natal's not going to have any external peripherals for the player to hold. It's strictly player movement, so yeah, that's how they're taking brave steps toward it. That's not to say Nintendo's bad. They did something brave, but no one has a fucking clue how to implement the technology without it feeling tacked on. It's only a matter of time till when these will come out that they will understand it a bit better.

 

[dthvirus]

My friend said he would bring Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 2 to my house and his 360. I asked if he had any other games, heavily implying that we might get sick of shooting. He said he'll bring Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare and Halo 3.

"I said, do you have any other games?"

That earned me a good chuckle.

 

[dashiz94]

Well, World of Warcraft obviousy (yes, it's, I know it's an MMORPG, stop throwing your Captain Picard figurines at me)

How is a flexible, balanced MMO, in which the company LISTENS to its fanbase, a danger to gaming? Because its popular, and does MMOs right? If MMO's want to compete; they should come up with original ideas, and get them to work. WoWs idea was accessability, and it worked pretty damn good.

Now that Im done with THAT; the CoD series spawns a wide host of teenagers who grow up, only buying "Gritty, realistic, War Shooters". All of which suck. People like your brother are the reason we see so few new ideas in the FPS department; any company can squeeze out a mediocre, gritty shooter in 6 months, and profit from it. Why put thought into something, when you can get more money for less effort?

Despite being a fan of Halo's multiplayer (which, I think gets ragged on entirely too much, but everyones allowed their opinions), Halo and CoD are single handedly killing the gaming franchise. They bring teenagers into the Mature gaming audience, and developers target them because these teens are more numerous then people Mature games are intended for. Games arent being developed for content, there being developed for flair. And, if your into the arguement "Games are Art", these games would rank with Finger Paintings; compared to a Mona Lisa like Golden Sun.

I mostly agree with you, but first person shooters have alwasy been a "fad" genre. Allow me to explain. Back in the 90s, games like DOOM had a formula of one guy with about ten huge guns killing everything. That style prevailed up until the advent of Halo, where everything was two guns with a simple melee. Then now we have the "realistic" war shooters ever since the creation of the Call of Duty franchise. It will always be like this because first person shooters are inherently hard to really make a change to. And besides, most gamers, as I'm sure you know, are around their 30s, so I can't see how a teenage audience based genre can really cripple the gaming industry.

 

[dashiz94]

Half Life 2 is a threat to other games, not in that it takes their sales; but in that it corrupts them, twisting them in it's own average image. Before Half Life 2 we had few games aboot power-armored non-characters fighting generically evil aliens, using generic weapons, while assisted by an annoying shoe-horned in minority sidekick/love interest.
Also: Valve is a proponent of digital distribution which is also bad.

My internal monologue had a canadian accent for the remainder of reading your post


My opinion is that there is no industry threatening games. If someone makes a very popular shooter like CoD6, you try to make a better shooter like BC2!

Someone makes an action packed game about space marines that sells awesomely? (halo)
Someone else makes another one that sells well? (Gear of War)
You make EVEN COOLER SPACE MARINES! (haze and a whole hell lot more)

If the industry is ruined due to a certain game, well, the industry isn't very competitive.

But didn't Haze suck A LOT of ass?

 

[Ekonk]

Oh God your brother too.

Mine plays Call of Duty CONSTANTLY. I try to get him to play more interesting things, BUT HE SIMPLY REFUSES. It's rather unnerving.

 

[Thyunda]

Well, World of Warcraft obviousy (yes, it's, I know it's an MMORPG, stop throwing your Captain Picard figurines at me)

How is a flexible, balanced MMO, in which the company LISTENS to its fanbase, a danger to gaming? Because its popular, and does MMOs right? If MMO's want to compete; they should come up with original ideas, and get them to work. WoWs idea was accessability, and it worked pretty damn good.

Now that Im done with THAT; the CoD series spawns a wide host of teenagers who grow up, only buying "Gritty, realistic, War Shooters". All of which suck. People like your brother are the reason we see so few new ideas in the FPS department; any company can squeeze out a mediocre, gritty shooter in 6 months, and profit from it. Why put thought into something, when you can get more money for less effort?

Despite being a fan of Halo's multiplayer (which, I think gets ragged on entirely too much, but everyones allowed their opinions), Halo and CoD are single handedly killing the gaming franchise. They bring teenagers into the Mature gaming audience, and developers target them because these teens are more numerous then people Mature games are intended for. Games arent being developed for content, there being developed for flair. And, if your into the arguement "Games are Art", these games would rank with Finger Paintings; compared to a Mona Lisa like Golden Sun.

I mostly agree with you, but first person shooters have alwasy been a "fad" genre. Allow me to explain. Back in the 90s, games like DOOM had a formula of one guy with about ten huge guns killing everything. That style prevailed up until the advent of Halo, where everything was two guns with a simple melee. Then now we have the "realistic" war shooters ever since the creation of the Call of Duty franchise. It will always be like this because first person shooters are inherently hard to really make a change to. And besides, most gamers, as I'm sure you know, are around their 30s, so I can't see how a teenage audience based genre can really cripple the gaming industry.

Most gamers that are around thirty are often single and unemployed. Else they're not classed as real gamers. If they're married, in a relationship, and have a full time career, they're clearly casual gamers.

You'll find that the biggest percentage of 'gamers' tend to be around their teens. People with the parents' money, and the free time to play them. A game that appeals to them will take over the industry. Let's face it, all the big sellers (GTAIV, Halo 3, MW2, for example) went straight to the thirteen year olds, despite the age ratings.

 

[Wicky_42]

Since the release of Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, my thirteen year old brother has played nothing else.

Can I point out that this is technically illegal. The big red 18 on the front of the box should give that away...

Eh, it's not a legal issue, it's a recommendation. There is no legal penalty for 'underage gaming'

 

[Chrono212]

Since the release of Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, my thirteen year old brother has played nothing else.

Can I point out that this is technically illegal. The big red 18 on the front of the box should give that away...

Eh, it's not a legal issue, it's a recommendation. There is no legal penalty for 'underage gaming'

No, I'm sorry to inform you, but you are wrong. It's not a recommendation; it's a legally binding minimum age requirement to purchase such material. It's the same with alcohol and tobacco. They don't have 'recommended' age limit in which anyone can go and buy it, it's restricted to adults for a reason. The same is with games. The mature content is intended for adults only and it's a simple fact that buying it for a minor is against the law.

 

[SavingPrincess]

I'm going to second votes for World of Warcraft, Modern Warfare 2, Farmville or any other game that promotes the idea of "play our game and nothing else please."

Think about it... the topic is "hurting the industry." Think of how many incredibly bad Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games have come out in order to try to capture the success of World of Warcraft... that's hurting the industry.

My stepfather used to buy an average of four to five games per year; after getting Modern Warfare 2, he's not remotely interested in purchasing another game for quite some time. That hurts the industry.

I say Farmville in the idea that I mean "games" that are social-networking driven; which would also include games like Mafia Wars and Cafe Something-or-Another. Again, the idea is that it tries to monopolize your hours and encourage you to only do that one activity. To me, that's just a fundamental design flaw in gaming in general. If you have one game dominating users' time spent playing games, that hurts the overall purchasing market.

So in short, any game that promotes shoddy copies of itself within the industry, promotes only owning that one game, or monopolizes players' time spent playing games, is in effect, hurting the industry.

 

[Wicky_42]

Since the release of Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, my thirteen year old brother has played nothing else.

Can I point out that this is technically illegal. The big red 18 on the front of the box should give that away...

Eh, it's not a legal issue, it's a recommendation. There is no legal penalty for 'underage gaming'

No, I'm sorry to inform you, but you are wrong. It's not a recommendation; it's a legally binding minimum age requirement to purchase such material. It's the same with alcohol and tobacco. They don't have 'recommended' age limit in which anyone can go and buy it, it's restricted to adults for a reason. The same is with games. The mature content is intended for adults only and it's a simple fact that buying it for a minor is against the law.

Buying it AS a minor carries a penalty for the SELLER, not the buyer. Buying it FOR a minor is not illegal. Playing an age restricted game as a minor is not illegal. At least I've never seen any legislation saying otherwise, and I seriously doubt as to whether such legislation would be enforcible.

 

[Chrono212]

Since the release of Call Of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, my thirteen year old brother has played nothing else.

Can I point out that this is technically illegal. The big red 18 on the front of the box should give that away...

Eh, it's not a legal issue, it's a recommendation. There is no legal penalty for 'underage gaming'

No, I'm sorry to inform you, but you are wrong. It's not a recommendation; it's a legally binding minimum age requirement to purchase such material. It's the same with alcohol and tobacco. They don't have 'recommended' age limit in which anyone can go and buy it, it's restricted to adults for a reason. The same is with games. The mature content is intended for adults only and it's a simple fact that buying it for a minor is against the law.

Buying it AS a minor carries a penalty for the SELLER, not the buyer. Buying it FOR a minor is not illegal. Playing an age restricted game as a minor is not illegal. At least I've never seen any legislation saying otherwise, and I seriously doubt as to whether such legislation would be enforcible.

Just because it's not enforcible doesn't make it legal

Off Topic: NEED HELP! http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/362.198093-Escapist-Tug-of-War-May-2010-Set-GO?page=1

 

[Fear of Intent]

to all of you who keep defending WoW i play the bloody thing i would know it does cripple other mmorpgs look at this chart

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.wow.com/media/2008/02/md-subscriptions.png

its kind of small but you can see what ones WoW, it looks like pac-man and because most of those avid fans dont ge off the game and bash all other mmorpgs others dont get a chance new mmorpgs die before they get 1,000,000,000 players while wow has 11,500,000,000 in 2008 imagine now? if they were to release a free version (EX. can only get to half the lvl cap, can only have 500 gold ext.) all others on that chart would be non existent crating a monopoly and that being against the law is prob why wow hasnt done that yet so yes WoW does hurt other games of it genre, good day