Games you consider overrated

[Treblaine]

BioShock - It's a great game but why do people keep treating it like it has the best story ever written? The whole thing with the Little Sisters seem more emotionally manipulative rather than anything really meaningful. Having them be little girls basically means they don't have to have any real development since people naturally feel sympathy for children.

Yep, what's wrong with that? How much development can you have with an agent that is being constantly guarded by a giant armoured body guard, there has to be an instant appreciation of vulnerability.

Really the relationship with the Little Sisters is NOT the main appeal of bioshock but rather;
-the highly original setting of art-deco, diesel-punk, dystopic underwater city.
-the highly varied weapons and plasmids for a shooter
-the weird and unique enemies who babbled to you insanely
-the challenge of hunting Big Daddies to level up
-all the other little things like hackable sentries and bots and security cameras
-All the supporting characters like Sander Cohen
-THEN the better than most plot that had variety and twists without going over the top into Metal-Gear bullshit

Really, what game or even film has a better plot considering the design brief of the archetype of the silent protagonist? Remember it is intentional to have the silent protagonist as a COMPROMISE to increase greater immersion, you cannot step back to make comparisons as in practice it means a whole lot different when Andrew Ryan is speaking to some character called Jack or speaking to YOU when you are role playing as Jack. And chatty protagonist can disturb that immersion as you don't have conscious control over everything they do.

I never said that the Little Sisters were the main appeal of the game. It was one particular story element that I found to be too over the top. It was one of those "you can either save the puppy or kill it to earn some money" type decisions that games, especially RPG's, tend to use a bit too often.

Also, my complaint was about the story, which some people treat like it's Blade Runner. I didn't say anything about the weapons, the enemy variety, art design, etc.

Well the little-sisters was your main body of your criticism in stating the game was over-rated, you acted like it was the main point of the game.

And what precisely is the problem with asking the player to make an ethical decision that is weighted with varying personal benefit? That internal conflict, that's drama, that's meaning and something of worth.

"complaint was about the story, which some people treat like it's Blade Runner"

You can't compare the plot of completely different works of fiction. I have actually never heard that comparison, I've heard people accurately describe it but not make such weird comparison. You got any example like from a professional review that makes such an unfair comparison? Otherwise if it is only you who has made this unfair comparison then isn't that a straw man argument? It's like saying "well Die Hard hasn't got as good a plot as Citizen Kane" doesn't change what makes Die Hard a good film and it's very subjective any way.

Blade Runner is too different to compare with Bioshock. However, Red Letter Media (Plinket reviews) did show how you make comparisons like the Star Wars films with Citizen Kane by comparing Kane with Darth Vader/Anakin and how the films approach them differently and he argues with comparison how the prequel trilogy is so ineffective. THAT is a fair (if harsh) comparison, even though he modestly says it is not fair.

 

[Athinira]

The difference is that Hideo Kojima never wanted to make MGS2. He deliberately used meme theory in MGS2 to deconstruct the very idea of a video game, went out of his way to insult the player, and made the ending so deliberately confusing and indecipherable that you would just give up on trying to understand it. This was all part of his insane plan to get fans to hate him so he wouldn't have to make more games. Comparing that to something where the game cocked up the ending that badly, while actually trying to do well, is insulting.

So, do you have anything to back up that claim, or is it something you learned at Conspiracy Theory College?

 

[ABLb0y]

Skyrim and Kingdoms of Amalur. Just... So... Bland and boring.

Battlefield. You can tell they're just doing it to piss off Activision. Everything they do has been done before and better.

That's about it, actually.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

Art games. Any artsy game, at this point.

I'm more and more bored by that stuff every day (save for Shadow of the Colossus, that shit had great gameplay too) so whenever something like Journey makes journalists wax poetic on their previews/reviews, I wanna claw my eyes out.

 

[Farther than stars]

Bioshock . I mean really , people talk about story and atmosphere . I just don't see it , i must not be hipster enough ( yeah i went there).

Silent hill 2 . Best silent hill game? I think not !( and i'm not talking about graphics nor controls).

Deus ex : HR. That game was so flawed and boring . I even made a thread seeking people to explain why that game was so great , nobody could . So either Deus Ex : HR was of an inexplicable greatness or it really wasn't as great as everyone said .

Come at me bros.

Edit :Here is the Deus ex thread i made http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.337898-Can-someone-explain-why-Deus-Ex-HR-is-so-great

I'm interested to know what some games are that you do actually like. By the way, I'm with you on the Bioshock, but not because I think the story and atmosphere are bad. No, those are potentially fantastic, but the game was so buggy on the PC that it just ruined that whole experience for me.
Also Oblivion and Morrowind, although I'll admit that Oblivion is at least a little more fun than Morrowind, largely due to voice acting. I mean, the games just bore me. Especially the opening levels are such a monotonous chore to get through. And I know that Bethesda can do better than that. It made Fallout 3 after all and I freakin' love that game.

 

[Farther than stars]

Art games. Any artsy game, at this point.

I'm more and more bored by that stuff every day (save for Shadow of the Colossus, that shit had great gameplay too) so whenever something like Journey makes journalists wax poetic on their previews/reviews, I wanna claw my eyes out.

You're not going to tell me that this world would be a better place without Portal or Bastion, are you? :0

 

[Farther than stars]

Oblivion, Fallout 3/NV, DA:O, FF7. Maybe they're not overrated, just not my style. If you like them, that's cool too.

I hear what you're saying. I have the exact same thing with Bioshock. I totally get its praise and would find it such an awesome game myself. But it was so buggy on the PC that I was never able to get absorbed into it and now I never will.
Personally I like the Fallout games though. I just like how the world is so large and detailed that you can get lost in exploration for a while.

 

[krazykidd]

Bioshock . I mean really , people talk about story and atmosphere . I just don't see it , i must not be hipster enough ( yeah i went there).

Silent hill 2 . Best silent hill game? I think not !( and i'm not talking about graphics nor controls).

Deus ex : HR. That game was so flawed and boring . I even made a thread seeking people to explain why that game was so great , nobody could . So either Deus Ex : HR was of an inexplicable greatness or it really wasn't as great as everyone said .

Come at me bros.

Edit :Here is the Deus ex thread i made http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.337898-Can-someone-explain-why-Deus-Ex-HR-is-so-great

I'm interested to know what some games are that you do actually like. By the way, I'm with you on the Bioshock, but not because I think the story and atmosphere are bad. No, those are potentially fantastic, but the game was so buggy on the PC that it just ruined that whole experience for me.
Also Oblivion and Morrowind, although I'll admit that Oblivion is at least a little more fun than Morrowind, largely due to voice acting. I mean, the games just bore me. Especially the opening levels are such a monotonous chore to get through. And I know that Bethesda can do better than that. It made Fallout 3 after all and I freakin' love that game.

I like jrpgs the most ( although that genre is dying) a short list of games i liked that i played recently.

Dark souls
Catherine
Dragon age origins
Skyrim
Smt: nocturne
Persona4
Smt: strange journey
Alpha protocol
Alan wake

My all time favorite games are:

Final fantasy 6
Lufia
Legend of legaia.

 

[disappointed]

Assassin's Creed series. Ridiculously stupid storyline, unchallenging combat and massively repetitive. The last three games have all been the same game.

Super Mario Brothers. It was fun in it's day but it's legendary status overshadows a hoard of far more interesting contemporaries.

Street Fighter. And all animation-based fighting games. We have physics now. We should be passed memorising combos and frame-perfect timing. So boring.

Mass Effect. RPGs seem to be able to get away with murder as long as they have pretty locations. I have a soft spot for the Elder Scrolls series even though it has basically all the same problems as Bioware's stuff. That said, I got bored of Skyrim's shopping list of quests without ever really troubling the main quest so maybe it too deserves taking down a peg or two.

Portal 2. Good game but not as much fun as the first.

Quake. Nothing but a tech demo from id. An experiment in how boring an FPS can be and still get played. It's success paved the way for the corridor shooters we love to this day.

Peggle, Plant's vs. Zombies, Cut the Rope, Angry Birds. These are throwaway puzzle games. They can be fun. They can be distracting. They can never be great.

That Pac Man remake. Seriously, are we that afraid of growing up? Chasing high scores is not my idea of a good time.

 

[AgentNein]

Silent hill 2 . Best silent hill game? I think not !( and i'm not talking about graphics nor controls)

Alright, you've sparked my interest. Which Silent Hill would you put above 2? I'm actually of the controversial opinion that (in terms of story and atmosphere, not gameplay, oh god no) Silent Hill: Shattered Memories is the only other game in the series to go toe to toe with it.

Of course if we're talking ability to scare the snot out of me, Silent Hill 3 will always be numero uno to me.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

Art games. Any artsy game, at this point.

I'm more and more bored by that stuff every day (save for Shadow of the Colossus, that shit had great gameplay too) so whenever something like Journey makes journalists wax poetic on their previews/reviews, I wanna claw my eyes out.

You're not going to tell me that this world would be a better place without Portal or Bastion, are you? :0

Naww, nothing so foolishly crass! Variety can only make the world better! My tastes are just changing. I'm only 22 but I feel like I've gone through a lot of phases in my tastes. It just seems like, because the conscious "games as art" initiative is so young, everything that's minimalistic in some way is critically lauded, regardless of how "fun" or not it is. I groan loudly when I see previewers/reviewers trying to make "narrative" out of their time with these artful games. It tells me nothing about anything when they do that, except that they may/may not have worn a scarf and turtleneck combo while drinking port at the time of review.

The artsy games I've already played and enjoyed are sorta safe from my growing ambivalence, but I look at Journey, Limbo, Braid, Bastion, etc. and I can't really muster up the hyperbolic interest people have in those games. I like different games from that at this point, and I'm sorta coming to terms with my ever-simplifying tastes as I grow older.

 

[KingofMadCows]

Well the little-sisters was your main body of your criticism in stating the game was over-rated, you acted like it was the main point of the game.

And what precisely is the problem with asking the player to make an ethical decision that is weighted with varying personal benefit? That internal conflict, that's drama, that's meaning and something of worth.

"complaint was about the story, which some people treat like it's Blade Runner"

You can't compare the plot of completely different works of fiction. I have actually never heard that comparison, I've heard people accurately describe it but not make such weird comparison. You got any example like from a professional review that makes such an unfair comparison? Otherwise if it is only you who has made this unfair comparison then isn't that a straw man argument? It's like saying "well Die Hard hasn't got as good a plot as Citizen Kane" doesn't change what makes Die Hard a good film and it's very subjective any way.

Blade Runner is too different to compare with Bioshock. However, Red Letter Media (Plinket reviews) did show how you make comparisons like the Star Wars films with Citizen Kane by comparing Kane with Darth Vader/Anakin and how the films approach them differently and he argues with comparison how the prequel trilogy is so ineffective. THAT is a fair (if harsh) comparison, even though he modestly says it is not fair.

Fine, let me rephrase what I said, "It's a great game but why do people keep treating it like it has the best story ever written? One specific element of the story that I was not fond of was the whole thing with the Little Sisters, which seem more emotionally manipulative rather than anything really meaningful. Having them be little girls basically means they don't have to have any real development since people naturally feel sympathy for children."

Also I said that some people treat it like it's Blade Runner, as in they act as if it's some kind of amazing groundbreaking work of sci-fi. I did not say that people made direct comparisons.

 

[Treblaine]

Fine, let me rephrase what I said, "It's a great game but why do people keep treating it like it has the best story ever written? One specific element of the story that I was not fond of was the whole thing with the Little Sisters, which seem more emotionally manipulative rather than anything really meaningful. Having them be little girls basically means they don't have to have any real development since people naturally feel sympathy for children."

Also I said that some people treat it like it's Blade Runner, as in they act as if it's some kind of amazing groundbreaking work of sci-fi. I did not say that people made direct comparisons.

(little sisters are "part of the story"? More worthy of mention than the interaction between the actual named characters like Jack, Ryan and Atlas and so on???!?!)

Okay then... WHY?

WHY is it not a great work of sci-fi? Precisely why is Bioshock overrated, as the plot is just one aspect and really what is so wrong about it? Let's forget the unfair Blade Runner standard and just expand what exactly is wrong with the plot and the game as a whole. Opinions are just that and on their own aren't worth much as there is no discussion value and posts SHOULD add discussion value, so please elaborate.

I'd also have to dispute that little sisters were emotionally "manipulative" to the point of lacking meaning. Number 1, it is the JOB of artists to manipulate your emotions, the Steps of Odessa is famous of its child in peril and it's common throughout artistic works. Number 2 what is so meaningless? Their very existence defines the insane and macabre world of Rapture, the way you treat them defines how yourself in Rapture: to further the depravity or to redeem.

 

[Treblaine]

The difference is that Hideo Kojima never wanted to make MGS2. He deliberately used meme theory in MGS2 to deconstruct the very idea of a video game, went out of his way to insult the player, and made the ending so deliberately confusing and indecipherable that you would just give up on trying to understand it. This was all part of his insane plan to get fans to hate him so he wouldn't have to make more games. Comparing that to something where the game cocked up the ending that badly, while actually trying to do well, is insulting.

So, do you have anything to back up that claim, or is it something you learned at Conspiracy Theory College?

As crazy as that theory is it does make more sense than the actual ending of MGS2.

I really do get the impression MGS2 was very rushed and Kojima has always spoken ambivalently about sequels to MGS1, he seemed a lot more keen on MGS3 which seemed to be made with a lot more forethought and was much more rounded.

 

[KingofMadCows]

Fine, let me rephrase what I said, "It's a great game but why do people keep treating it like it has the best story ever written? One specific element of the story that I was not fond of was the whole thing with the Little Sisters, which seem more emotionally manipulative rather than anything really meaningful. Having them be little girls basically means they don't have to have any real development since people naturally feel sympathy for children."

Also I said that some people treat it like it's Blade Runner, as in they act as if it's some kind of amazing groundbreaking work of sci-fi. I did not say that people made direct comparisons.

(little sisters are "part of the story"? More worthy of mention than the interaction between the actual named characters like Jack, Ryan and Atlas and so on???!?!)

Okay then... WHY?

WHY is it not a great work of sci-fi? Precisely why is Bioshock overrated, as the plot is just one aspect and really what is so wrong about it? Let's forget the unfair Blade Runner standard and just expand what exactly is wrong with the plot and the game as a whole. Opinions are just that and on their own aren't worth much as there is no discussion value and posts SHOULD add discussion value, so please elaborate.

I'd also have to dispute that little sisters were emotionally "manipulative" to the point of lacking meaning. Number 1, it is the JOB of artists to manipulate your emotions, the Steps of Odessa is famous of its child in peril and it's common throughout artistic works. Number 2 what is so meaningless? Their very existence defines the insane and macabre world of Rapture, the way you treat them defines how yourself in Rapture: to further the depravity or to redeem.

First of all, I'm not writing a thesis on why I think BioShock is overrated. The Little Sisters is one element that really stuck out to me. Whether or not you think it's more worthy of mention than Andrew Ryan or Atlas is irrelevant. It's just something that bothered me.

Second, I never said that it wasn't a good work of fiction. I just don't think it deserves to be put on such a pedestal like some people think. Not great does not mean utter crap. Again, I don't want to write a friggin' essay on the subject. I didn't do that for my complaints against Fallout 3 and GTA IV, and I'm not going to do it for BioShock.

 

[IKSA]

For me it's final fantasy 7. Very likely due to the fact I attempted to play it 9 years after release.

This and then TF2 oh god I have a looooong list of problems with that game but I'm too lazy biggest problem me with the game is 24h played actually in a fucking game for 5h then you might say its at your end my pc can run crysis 2 and any other valve game but not TF2 and then the game is not eaven that great like everybody says.

*flame bunker*

 

[Treblaine]

Fine, let me rephrase what I said, "It's a great game but why do people keep treating it like it has the best story ever written? One specific element of the story that I was not fond of was the whole thing with the Little Sisters, which seem more emotionally manipulative rather than anything really meaningful. Having them be little girls basically means they don't have to have any real development since people naturally feel sympathy for children."

Also I said that some people treat it like it's Blade Runner, as in they act as if it's some kind of amazing groundbreaking work of sci-fi. I did not say that people made direct comparisons.

(little sisters are "part of the story"? More worthy of mention than the interaction between the actual named characters like Jack, Ryan and Atlas and so on???!?!)

Okay then... WHY?

WHY is it not a great work of sci-fi? Precisely why is Bioshock overrated, as the plot is just one aspect and really what is so wrong about it? Let's forget the unfair Blade Runner standard and just expand what exactly is wrong with the plot and the game as a whole. Opinions are just that and on their own aren't worth much as there is no discussion value and posts SHOULD add discussion value, so please elaborate.

I'd also have to dispute that little sisters were emotionally "manipulative" to the point of lacking meaning. Number 1, it is the JOB of artists to manipulate your emotions, the Steps of Odessa is famous of its child in peril and it's common throughout artistic works. Number 2 what is so meaningless? Their very existence defines the insane and macabre world of Rapture, the way you treat them defines how yourself in Rapture: to further the depravity or to redeem.

First of all, I'm not writing a thesis on why I think BioShock is overrated. The Little Sisters is one element that really stuck out to me. Whether or not you think it's more worthy of mention than Andrew Ryan or Atlas is irrelevant. It's just something that bothered me.

Second, I never said that it wasn't a good work of fiction. I just don't think it deserves to be put on such a pedestal like some people think. Not great does not mean utter crap. Again, I don't want to write a friggin' essay on the subject. I didn't do that for my complaints against Fallout 3 and GTA IV, and I'm not going to do it for BioShock.

I presume you object to other emotional manipulation by works of fiction? Do you not like any drama or tension in games, books and film? Would it be better if the Little Sisters were replaced with just something like emotionally neutral like a ball of light. yet at the same time it has to have meaning that Little Sisters supposedly lack.

So it has to be meaningful yet without much emotional significance.

As you can see, you can't get away with dissing my favourite game without your logic being challenged, you are contradicting yourself or asking for a game of cold rational significance.

-

There is A LOT in between Blade Runner and the worst sci-fi. It is't really saying much to say that it's too much to say it's up there with Blade Runner. It's like saying "Well, it's not Citizen Kane".

"I didn't do that for my complaints against..."

So far you've hardly even complained, you've just stated and reaffirmed your personal opinion... for all it is worth.

I'm not expecting an essay, 5 or 6 bullet points would do with brief issues. If you can't even do that I'd have to wonder if you have any genuine criticisms to give or if Bioshock and other games simply aren't to your personal tastes. I mean I don't like girly rom-com but they aren't exactly targeted at me, maybe if Fallout 3 and bioshock aren't your think maybe this is like selling NASCAR to a Formula 1 fan

 

[Azure Knight-Zeo]

Mass Effect to me is super boring. Everyone seems to think that it is some sort of game made by God though. I just don't see it.

I agree, I know that dialog is the blood of a story and a space opera in particular, but most of it's just so tedious and often times goes nowhere. Also the combat feels like too much of a mess with psychic balls everywhere and you ragdollizing when they hit, although I did like the tank bits.

 

[CarlMin]

The most overrated game series of all times is Super Mario. It's not only that Nintendo hasn't been able to make a good Mario game since the 80s (with the possible exception of Galaxy), the game just wasn't all that innovative or special at the time of the NES either. How it became a cultural icon is beyond me.

Half life 2 is the king of this. Its an average shooter with physics puzzles and an above average story, but somehow it has this rabid fanbase. Really annoying.

You obviously haven't spent enough time analyzing the historical metaphors in the in-game architecture or the soundfiles from every single combine dialog. Perhaps if you did you'd find a depth that makes Shakespeare seem like a Twilight fanfiction writer.

yeah woe on me for trying to enjoy an experience rather than analyse it. I noticed a lot of it and thats all fine and grand but the fervour in which fans are yelling about episode 3 (or hl3) is just downright sad.

Yeah, I guess you're right about that. But I'd be surprised if we don't see Half Life 3 by the end of 2013. It seems like Gabe is planning something, and whatever it is it's going to be huge or a complete failure.

Half life 2 is the king of this. Its an average shooter with physics puzzles and an above average story, but somehow it has this rabid fanbase. Really annoying.

You obviously haven't spent enough time analyzing the historical metaphors in the in-game architecture or the soundfiles from every single combine dialog. Perhaps if you did you'd find a depth that makes Shakespeare seem like a Twilight fanfiction writer.

Not sure if serious....

I'm actually not sure either! I've spent time analyzing these details, but I'm aware of how preposterous it must sound. But the world of Half Life 2 is incredibly rich. I discover new things every time I replay the game!