PleasantKenobi said:
Gahars said:
While again I agree for the most part with what you are saying, especially about the poor characterisation, I simply can't agree about the 'redundancy' of the sacrifice in vain plot device. It doesn't work on one of the levels that you pointed out, due to bad character development, but the plot device could still work if you cared for the characters, or related to them in some way.
The comparison to the novel and the jam; that would still work as a drama. In a way, it functions as a textbook example of 'dramatic irony', the audience, reader or player know things that the characters do not. I don't think knowing the end of a narrative makes for an un-compelling experience, or makes it unenjoyable, or ultimately redundant.
I agree on your first point, that if you cared or related to them in some way, it would still have an effect. It's just for me, and since this is pretty subjective, it differs for everyone, I didn't have that. The Spartans of Noble team just never felt like real people with histories, hopes, dreams, etc., and their disdain for the normal people around them at times pushed them towards the unlikeable side, for me at least.
As for the 2nd, right again. I worded that wrong. What I was trying to convey was, if you know the ending, and you don't have a well characterized protagonist whose struggle you can understand, THEN it's redundant and pointless.
For instance, in the Jam story, where we know there is no jam in the fridge, let's say the person going for the jam is Jim. He's been estranged from his family for several years because he disagrees with their church going lifestyle. His girlfriend recently left him for another man, he's been laid off from his job, and both his best friend and dog were run over by a steam roller. Despite all this hardship, he's still trying to maintain composure. He thinks, "My life has gone hill, but if I can keep it together. Having a nice jam sandwich has always calmed me down in the past; maybe it'll help me gain some perspective." Unfortunately, once he arrives he discovers, to his dismay, that even the jam is gone. With everything seemingly crumbling around him, Jim spirals into despair.
Now, example 2, the "Halo Reach approach". There is no jam in the fridge. Some random guy wants jam. He goes to the fridge. There is no jam. He wishes there was jam. But there isn't. The end.
If Reach had characters I cared about, the pointless sacrifice could have been a really powerful, affecting moment. Instead, it feels more like a pointless distraction, and a contrived excuse to get rid off a cardboard cut out.
