TomLikesGuitar said:
101flyboy said:
1. The LGBTQ community ARE victims of a homophobic society. We ARE victims. Let's make that clear. We don't play victim, we are victims and are being victimized for who we are.
I know.
Everyone knows this.
I would argue that it's not as bad as some of the LGBTQ community makes it seem, but I have a feeling you'd disagree.
Also, don't pretend that there aren't a HUGE number of homosexuals, especially in the US, that don't see any real victimization for their entire lives aside from on the news. Sure they might get looked at funny sometimes, but who doesn't?
Everyone has their own problems... some WAY bigger than yours.
What does saying "some are way bigger than yours" even mean? Is that supposed to make someone feel better about the very real problems they have?
Every single LGBTQ person in the US deals with discrimination on a daily basis; legally without doubt. Socially, outside of your San Francisco's, Chelsea's, Fort Lauderdale's and Santa Monica's and WEHO's, there is extreme repression of homosexuality. So if by huge, you mean about 10%, you are a little bit correct. A little bit. Because even in these communities, LGBTQ persons still have to endure homophobia. There is no "black community" or "Jewish community" for LGBTQ citizens. There are gay ghettos but they are gentrifying. We don't have a bubble we can simply hide from to protect ourselves from hate and congregate with an entire community of people who support us, and ARE one of us. So the hate we have to deal with is a more direct aspect of our livelihoods than ANY other group bar atheists. Atheists and gays, we go through more or less the same shit. Except for the fact people aren't beaten for "choosing" atheism or for not being religious. And aren't denied the right to marry. Or actively denied jobs.
Everyone does have their own problems. Not all individual problems are problems that affect all of society. Homophobia does. Not everyone has problems that affect them on every single level of their lives. Homophobia does. You really, really do not seem to realize just how destructive homophobia is. Homosexuality is still illegal in the 1/3 of the world.
And yet the ignorant are the ONLY people who don't accept you.
True. And whose loss is that? It certainly isn't mine. There isn't anything wrong with me. If someone doesn't understand, believe that, or appreciate what gay people can bring to the table, they aren't worthy of my time. They aren't worth the anger. Nothing they could say would change my being gay, so if they can't accept that, I can't accept them in my life.
I said that SOME are not fighting. Some of you are running away and acting like problems go away when you DON'T face them.
Not all of us are cut out to fight. That should be respected. Some people simply want to exist and live with some semblance of comfort and not get messy. And not get in the middle. Teens and young adults need acceptance and many don't want to have to throw themselves in the middle and suffer the pain that comes from putting themselves in the middle of this social war. Just because you're not in the middle of the fight doesn't mean you aren't fighting. Simply COMING OUT is fighting against a society where homosexuality is expected to stay hidden. Simply LIVING as gay is brave in our world. Especially in the Middle East, Asia, Eastern Europe and Africa. You don't get it, we are hated solely for EXISTING. Our basic existences are more or less an affront to the normal social structure. By being true to who we are, we're giving the middle finger to that social structure and living true to ourselves as non-heterosexual.
This is the problem.
YOU get real. There's WAY bigger problems for homosexuality right now, but some of you will go out of your way to make sure that the whole world knows that there's a GAY version of everything and that the Gay Olympics only exists because we're all assholes.
I'm always real, Tom. In case you haven't noticed, the five major sports have a grand total of zero openly gay players. Women in sports have to deal with similar issues, ie. forcibly kept closeted. Non-heterosexual athletes are FORCED into the closet by their personal representatives, by other players and their discomfort, and the fact sports fans are anti-gay on the balance.
There are no bigger problems than the fact homosexuality is still taboo, is still largely considered wrong, and the fact of the matter is, everything from legal discrimination to closeted athletes in sports all is an extension of that. The problem is SOCIETY. The problem are EVERYDAY STRAIGHT PEOPLE. That *is* the problem. If homosexuality were socially accepted, there wouldn't be any laws discriminating against us in the first place.
Look, I personally don't give a FUCK what anyone in the gay community does on it's spare time. I'm just saying that I think that this specific event is making things worse. You can disagree if you want, but don't jump down my throat for speaking my opinion in a thread that specifically asks for my opinion.
Your opinion is welcomed. You talking down to the LGBTQ community, which is effectively what you have done, and telling us what is better for US, is not.
People around the world respect Rosa Parks because she was a strong person. She dealt with a shitload of abuse sitting on that bus, but she did it because she wanted the right to be the same as everyone else.
What if, after they let black people sit anywhere on the bus, a black person got up and said, "You're all jerks; I'm gonna start a bus for black people."?
Do you think anyone would respect them?
No. They would be a weak person. When you decide that you'd rather segregate yourself than fight through abuse, you're a weak person, and you've given up the fight.
Well, no-one is advocating that the fight for social equality in everyday society should be given up, and this event doesn't in any way entail that we as a community are no longer fighting for full social inclusion and equality. There is no segregation. Straight people are allowed to enter this event, and allowed to participate at essentially every single one of the events we create. Whatever they may be. If you're straight and accepting, you're welcome. There isn't a fight against straights occurring.
The real problems... the ones that get masked in all this bullshit about name calling and stupid terminology... are the rights issues.
The rights issues need to be solved.
Rights aren't respected until those that have them are respected. Rights alone won't change things. Especially considering this is a social issue we're discussion, social views against homosexuality that lead to these such events. Society needs to solve their hatred against homosexuality and their heterosexism. Society needs to do their job and make sure gay people feel included and apart of the family. We don't and we won't continue doing societies work for them. We need to see something in return.
The Gay Olympics is a huge waste of time and a potential step backwards. It does nothing good for the gay community.
THERE'S ALREADY AN OLYMPICS THAT EVERYONE CAN BE IN.
True, and there were I believe.............13 openly non-heterosexual athletes. 13. Wonder why so few! Oh, that's right, athletes are pressured into being closeted due to rampant homophobia in sports. Which is only magnified during the Olympics, having to walk shoulder to shoulder with people from countries where even being thought of as gay leads to imprisonment.
And honestly, the Olympics are extremely open and there is NO prejudice towards any race, sexuality, or gender. As a matter of fact, the Olympics may be the SINGLE event that brings together the entire world in a beautiful, unbiased, happy competition where everyone can drop their prejudices and have a little bit of fun in this dark, depressing world.
And that's not good enough.
See the problem is... you think it's all about YOU. But it's not.
It's about all of us.
It is about all of us. No-one knows that better than we do. It's about all of us, but you keep hurting us. We reach our hands out and we continue getting burned. Only so many times I'm going to be fooled. Only so many times I'm going to be so trusting as to sticking my hands over the flames. It's about all of us, yet all of you don't want to fight for all of us. You're fighting for yourself and giving us the middle finger. So............OK. You give us the middle finger. I'm giving you one in return.
And I'm not speaking in generalities, but philosophically. I am not going to continuously be a victim. I'm not. People are hurt. People are scared, and people are skeptical. People are angry. And we have every single right to be.