Gays and Homophobia

[BlumiereBleck]

If the homosexuals want to be so different how can they expect rights if one minute they are yelling "we wont same rights" then another minute yelling "WERE DIFFERENT YEAH!"

But from your name and display picture I would guess you would be something of an emo. Wearing dark clothes listening to bands like avenge sevenfold, My Chemical romance or Escape the fate. Many would see that as being different, should your differences change what rights you deserve? Why should ones individuals differences matter to what rights they get?

Do not stereotype me. It's Avenged Sevenfold. The way they affect society whether positive or negative.

So you believe rights should be given on how some impacts society?

Yes, like right now: freedom of speech. Limited censorship and right to bear arms.

So someone who has a more positive impact should get better rights then someone who has little impact?

Yes, if a person positivity effects society power to em.

 

[outcesticide69]

Well then you consider being gay a choice. You either have it or dont. to say that it is a choice, kinda goes against gays, and then it would be considered to be a moral issue rather than brain defect. So then, by that rational gays would be a step backwards, instead of sideways, in population growth and would be considered a threat to the human race, which i refuse to believe. To explore a person's sexual interests, is something that takes time to discover, but it never changes. People that are gay and are with a person of the opposite sex are only doing it to be accepted in society, not because they were opened up to the idea of being straight, thats how we get sexual confusion in young teens(last statement was just opinion, i have no facts to base anything off it, so dont ask any questions as to why i believe it).

But that does not answer the section of it being a result of Pavloving condtioning or normal sexual variation.

For Pavloving Conditioning:
It is no longer really a choice, lfe experience have set an individuals mind to have specific feelings and ideas due to life long conditioning due to experience. As Freud said "All people are inherently bisexual, our life experiences make us homosexual, hetrosexual or remain bisexual". It is not a choice, like a fear of clowns, for example, which seems from being assualted by a clown in your youth (Though I'm not saying people become gay due to abuse, that was just to illustrate one kind of conditioning). Why do you believe that this is a choice? How come you do not see this form of conditioning as uncontrollable?

For APA's theory:
Humans are still driven by instinctive urges which we don't have to act upon, however nearly all individuals act upon this urge, but the urge is still there, as you said,. So why couldn't it be a different neural set-up? Why do you see it to be a defect and not as a variation?

Its a defect, because it goes against primal instincts. Like i said before, look at rabbits, if some of them happened to be gay, then they wouldnt breed as much, and thats their only defense against predators (other animals mind, not the cool alien). Though I link this to all animals, if they became gay, we wouldnt see a lot of them. And if one of those pandas was gay, well i can honestly tell you, they wouldnt be around anymore. Also a defect would be considered as a different variation, a mutation if you will. Possibly to even out the population, who knows for sure. Im just taking what i know and from that, derive an answer.

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

If the homosexuals want to be so different how can they expect rights if one minute they are yelling "we wont same rights" then another minute yelling "WERE DIFFERENT YEAH!"

But from your name and display picture I would guess you would be something of an emo. Wearing dark clothes listening to bands like avenge sevenfold, My Chemical romance or Escape the fate. Many would see that as being different, should your differences change what rights you deserve? Why should ones individuals differences matter to what rights they get?

Do not stereotype me. It's Avenged Sevenfold. The way they affect society whether positive or negative.

So you believe rights should be given on how some impacts society?

Yes, like right now: freedom of speech. Limited censorship and right to bear arms.

So someone who has a more positive impact should get better rights then someone who has little impact?

Yes, if a person positivity effects society power to em.

So then how do you effect society and what rights should you have? What about all the gay doctors, firemen, soldiers and politician should their positive influence be negated by their sexuality?

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Nor do you have the right telling me what i should and shouldnt believe in.

No, I don't. But neither do you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives. How about we let you believe what you want to believe and you let us do what we want to do?

did i go up to people and say "hey i dont agree with you, heres how you should live your life" no i don't

No, but if you were given the ability to vote for or against gay marriage you would vote against it, would you not?

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Nor do you have the right telling me what i should and shouldnt believe in.

No, I don't. But neither do you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives. How about we let you believe what you want to believe and you let us do what we want to do?

did i go up to people and say "hey i dont agree with you, heres how you should live your life" no i don't

No, but if you were given the ability to vote for or against gay marriage you would vote against it, would you not?

Yes i would vote against it, just as you would vote for it(probably) You're just as "bad" as me in this

 

[DarthFennec]

I'm bi. I don't think I really need to answer those other questions :/

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

Well then you consider being gay a choice. You either have it or dont. to say that it is a choice, kinda goes against gays, and then it would be considered to be a moral issue rather than brain defect. So then, by that rational gays would be a step backwards, instead of sideways, in population growth and would be considered a threat to the human race, which i refuse to believe. To explore a person's sexual interests, is something that takes time to discover, but it never changes. People that are gay and are with a person of the opposite sex are only doing it to be accepted in society, not because they were opened up to the idea of being straight, thats how we get sexual confusion in young teens(last statement was just opinion, i have no facts to base anything off it, so dont ask any questions as to why i believe it).

But that does not answer the section of it being a result of Pavloving condtioning or normal sexual variation.

For Pavloving Conditioning:
It is no longer really a choice, lfe experience have set an individuals mind to have specific feelings and ideas due to life long conditioning due to experience. As Freud said "All people are inherently bisexual, our life experiences make us homosexual, hetrosexual or remain bisexual". It is not a choice, like a fear of clowns, for example, which seems from being assualted by a clown in your youth (Though I'm not saying people become gay due to abuse, that was just to illustrate one kind of conditioning). Why do you believe that this is a choice? How come you do not see this form of conditioning as uncontrollable?

For APA's theory:
Humans are still driven by instinctive urges which we don't have to act upon, however nearly all individuals act upon this urge, but the urge is still there, as you said,. So why couldn't it be a different neural set-up? Why do you see it to be a defect and not as a variation?

Its a defect, because it goes against primal instincts. Like i said before, look at rabbits, if some of them happened to be gay, then they wouldnt breed as much, and thats their only defense against predators (other animals mind, not the cool alien). Though I link this to all animals, if they became gay, we wouldnt see a lot of them. And if one of those pandas was gay, well i can honestly tell you, they wouldnt be around anymore. Also a defect would be considered as a different variation, a mutation if you will. Possibly to even out the population, who knows for sure. Im just taking what i know and from that, derive an answer.

But now you say it is a defect because it goes against survival instinct. As the human population grew the number of homosexuals increased, humanity is at a point of over-population. Why couldn't homosexuality be a natural development to reduce over population. Also I have done further research and enquired with a professor of Psychology at Monash Uni, and they told me that there is no previous or current research that says homosexuals have any different brain structure or any defects.

 

[Mithent]

It's not about their problems. It's the rationalisation for solution. If you say "We deserve equal rights because we are essentially the same" and then turn around and say "Man I'm happy I'm so different to the rest of you", that makes you a bit of a twat.

I kinda agree, and that's speaking as someone on the high end of the Kinsey Scale. I am entirely in favour of LBGT rights, but not as LBGT rights per se, but as the same rights for everyone regardless of any characteristics they may have.

To me, it's odd to be proud of your sexual orientation - which is not to say that you should be ashamed of it, but that going on a gay pride march seems to me like having an event to show off how proud you are of your red hair, or how glad you are that you like nachos. I understand why they came to exist, but I'd like one's sexual orientation to be merely one facet of one's personality, of no particular import, rather than something which greatly influences one's identity. Things are moving this way, of course.

(In particular, in regards to marriage, I feel that any two consenting adults should be able to form a recognised legal partnership. The law shouldn't care. If they get married and exchange vows under God in a church, then that's up to them and whoever may be holding the ceremony, and they get the standard legal recognition. If they call it handfasting and dance around a maypole, or The Ceremonial Joining of Oneness or whatever, no problem. All the same under the law.)

 

[colourcodedchaos]

I'm a bisexual transwoman and as such I support equal rights for the LGBTQ community, just as I support equal rights for everyone. To the person further up the page blethering about how gay rights legislation isn't be necessary because everyone should be treated the same? That's exactly the attitude that makes it necessary. The goal is a good one but we aren't there yet, and we probably aren't going to be in any of our lifetimes.

 

[Willwillwritehiswill]

But now you say it is a defect because it goes against survival instinct. As the human population grew the number of homosexuals increased, humanity is at a point of over-population. Why couldn't homosexuality be a natural development to reduce over population. Also I have done further research and enquired with a professor of Psychology at Monash Uni, and they told me that there is no previous or current research that says homosexuals have any different brain structure or any defects.

I do have to pull you up on that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm

Okay, not hard evidence, but the BBC is a reputable source.

 

[Lt. Dragunov]

Well i think people have staerted to act like grown people now so you find too many people who will flat out bash other people for a stupid reason.

OT: gay/ for/ why would i deny who i am?

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

Nor do you have the right telling me what i should and shouldnt believe in.

No, I don't. But neither do you have the right to tell other people how to live their lives. How about we let you believe what you want to believe and you let us do what we want to do?

did i go up to people and say "hey i dont agree with you, heres how you should live your life" no i don't

No, but if you were given the ability to vote for or against gay marriage you would vote against it, would you not?

Yes i would vote against it, just as you would vote for it(probably) You're just as "bad" as me in this

Why do you believe he is as bad as you? He is allowing people to choose if they want to get married, giving the choice to them and not forcing them one way or the other. However, you denying them the choice entire and force them one way, why do you believe their are equivalent positions?

 

[Griff]

I'm not gay, but one of my best friends is. I was brought up in a liberal family and therefore naturally assumed the belief that gay people were as valid in their right to life and pursuit of happiness as much as anyone else, and talking as someone who is friends with a gay person he is one of the most stand up, nicest blokes in the world, literally a guy who tries hard, and goes out of his way to be a good person and if I'm honest makes a far more positive contribution to society than I do and I feel that anyone who would disregard or otherwise take offence at his sexuality or rights there of, quite honestly makes me feel sick.......ok rant over, going back into my hole now to weather the fire storm I have probably unwittingly released upon myself

 

[likalaruku]

I'm asexual, but I'm all for gay & bi. For one, it makes people I have very uncomfortable. For another reason it's very liberal. For yet another reason; hetero romance bores the snot right out of me, so cliche.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

No, but if you were given the ability to vote for or against gay marriage you would vote against it, would you not?

Yes i would vote against it, just as you would vote for it(probably) You're just as "bad" as me in this[/quote]

What I would do is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you, if given the choice, would attempt to dictate how a human being should live their life and that's my problem. You do not have the right to do so and the fact that we're even debating this is absolutely abhorent. So, if you have the right to limit someone's freedom of expression then I should also have the right to limit yours.

 

[UncertaintyPrinciple]

But now you say it is a defect because it goes against survival instinct. As the human population grew the number of homosexuals increased, humanity is at a point of over-population. Why couldn't homosexuality be a natural development to reduce over population. Also I have done further research and enquired with a professor of Psychology at Monash Uni, and they told me that there is no previous or current research that says homosexuals have any different brain structure or any defects.

I do have to pull you up on that.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7456588.stm

Okay, not hard evidence, but the BBC is a reputable source.

Ah, well that explains what exactly the Dr said. I'm paraphrasing but "There has not been substaintual evidence from accurate tests, even then a defect is misguided as impedement must be shown. Whereas, in recent times the opposite has been shown...." he went on a bit more but that's all that is relevant. Although there are some flaws in the test and there is no evidence of a DEFECT, only that sexual attraction is due to brain structure; ie: people who like men the same brain structure. However, I understand how you derived your belief from that one article.

 

[BlumiereBleck]

No, but if you were given the ability to vote for or against gay marriage you would vote against it, would you not?

Yes i would vote against it, just as you would vote for it(probably) You're just as "bad" as me in this

What I would do is irrelevant. What is relevant is that you, if given the choice, would attempt to dictate how a human being should live their life and that's my problem. You do not have the right to do so and the fact that we're even debating this is absolutely abhorent. So, if you have the right to limit someone's freedom of expression then I should also have the right to limit yours.[/quote]Ok then so be it, I'll limit someones freedom. As of right now i've really stopped caring about all this "gays rights" mumbo jumbo. if you disagree with me, cool. dont particularly care but hey its a free world.

 

[neilsaccount]

I'm straight and I dont mind if people are gay or not. Half the people I work with are gay or lebian and they are really nice so I like keeping an open mind.

 

[Requx]

I'm Hetrosexual and completely neutral to others sexuality. Don't parade it in public (Just because your sexuality is different doesn't mean I want to see you making out in public. Heck, I speak up when Hetero couples are rude like that.) and I'll let you live your lives.

I won't actively lobby for them but I will stand up for gay rights because I believe everyone has a right to be who they want to be.

Yeah ditto... I never got why so many 16 year old girls think their bi now. But idk really, I have lotsa gay friends and even a tranny friend and I'm cool with all of em cause theyre still people.