*ubersigh*Cartman2nd said:
You, like OP (i forgot his username), forgot my point completely.
CD-I is a metaphor. *clout*
Gays and Homophobia
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You, like OP (i forgot his username), forgot my point completely.
CD-I is a metaphor. *clout*
well, pedophiles and rapists usually get what they deserve in jail. even amongst criminals, they're the lowest of the low. lower than a cop! they're typically the first ones to be victimized behind bars because they have a weak mental state, and often commit their crimes out of primitive impulse, whereas most gang crime is to build upon a bigger need & protect themselves as much as possible (eg. drug dealers carrying weapons arrest for assault/murder: drugs are his product, weapons are to save himself so he can keep selling product, assault/murder occurred because someone got in the way of selling his product). basically, the mentality is this: "if there's a grown man fucking with your game, take care of that shit. but if you're fucking with kids, you're a sick freak".Dan Steele said:
as for the rest, i think it's more about marketing. homosexuality involves 2 consenting adults, so wanting to push to be regarded as equal makes sense, no matter if it makes people uncomfortable or not. though i think people who are necrophiliacs aren't exactly "proud" of their actions, and would rather not let people know.
one of my brother's female friends once had maggots growing in her. the doctors couldn't explain it (considering she was still alive and all) until she told them her boyfriend at the time worked at the morgue. it turns out her boyfriend was getting a little too friendly with the bodies there. basically the eggs went from his penis to her uterus and hatched inside her. needless to say, they broke up and everybody in her community found out about his little habit. he fled the town and never came back. so at least for some of these, um, "interesting" fetishes (many of which i've never heard of), it's more of a "deal with it at the time" thing.
"Flaunting", of course, means ever giving any indication at all you might be not acceptably straight.MetaMop said:
At some point, we'll stop coddling people who use logic-averse arguments like this and actually call them on it. "I'm all for not killing gays on sight but the simple idea of someone being attracted to someone of the same gender and, God forbid, using certain straights-only couple behaviors in public, IS LIKE SOOOOO ICKY!!!!!!", indeed.
It's why the whole gay marriage "debate" is such a joke. "Teach the controversy", as the intelligent-designists say.
maybe it's hard for me to relate since i'm a straight male, but i get the impression that you're taking some of these comments way too personally, but i'm going to make an attempt to relate to you, jamie.Jaime_Wolf said:
as far as "flaunting" homosexuality compared to "being proud of" it is very different. in my 2nd year of college my one roommate was gay. he'd announce it during the middle of a conversation with new people just to keep it flowing (he even declared himself "the token fag" on some occasions), but from there the conversation would go back to school, music, television, martial arts, plans for seeing friends in town, etc. i never went out of my way to brag about chicks i boned when i talked with him, and he never went out of his way to brag about his boyfriends and the fun times they had. yeah, we talked about relationships from time to time, but it was more interesting hearing his story than if he just went "i'm so proud to be gay because of ... " to me, that's someone who's comfortable in their skin no matter what the outside world thinks of him. that's being proud.
however, one night he invited a new boyfriend and his mother to our house for dinner. everything was great until after dinner. my roommate and his friend just randomly started making out in front of me and his boyfriend's mom as they slowly made their way back to his room, leaving me to house-sit his bf's mom while they went away to have sex. this is definitely what i would consider "flaunting", and above all, it's just rude. we had an argument about that later in the night, where i basically told him "how would you like it if i brought a girl over, fucked the shit out of her half the night, and left you to babysit her dad?"
now, to be fair, i was notorious for pulling similar stunts with women when i was a teenager. doorways, hallways, parties, concerts, public parks (okay, that was only once), i loved flaunting the fact that i had a woman with me because i was more used to being alone. but over time i learned that no-one really wants to see my naked ass, and more than anything, it made the women really uncomfortable being so exposed in public! even the simple act of kissing in public makes them uncomfortable unless it's just one little peck on the lips, anything more is too much. even seeing other straight couples kissing in public makes me uncomfortable. so, i dialed it back, and now i save the rest for behind closed doors. i was being just as rude then as my roommate was that night.
so the moral of the story is: flaunting is irritating, no matter who you're taking home.
now in terms of media and advertising, for the most part i agree with you, hands down. there's a lot of emphasis on heterosexual desire, especially in top 40 pop music (though katy perry sure took a shot at breaking it with "I Kissed a Girl") and almost every tv commercial known to the human race. though i agree the proportional emphasis is completely out of whack, i'm gonna take a stab at why that might be, and i'd be more than happy to hear your feedback on this:
-advertisers jump at the largest possible audience they can find. since they know (depending on the product) that their largest audience will either be a straight male or a straight female, they target the sex appeal towards those desires. as well, there's sort of a natural reaction straight people tend to have toward homosexual desires, which if made blatant enough are rather off-putting (i don't label this a choice as more of an impulse, like a scene that makes you jump in a scary movie--and no, i'm not trying to compare homosexuality to scary movies, i'm-- just-- digging myself a hole here, so i'll get back to the point). i think though, even within the hetero mind, there are still some semblances of homosexual desire. take body wash/lotion commercials, for instance: oil of olay, dove, hell, even old spice fits this example of a product aimed at a particular gender, promoted by a half-naked person of the same gender! the way the ads are structured too (old spice is a better example than the others) are clearly aimed toward straight people ("hello ladies how are you doing today fantastic i am the man that your man could smell like"), but whether this is an influence of sexual desire or to perpetuate the ego of that particular gender is anyone's guess.
-music is written by a number of diffent styles of people with a number of different sexual preferences (confirmed & rumored homosexuals: elton john, 4 non-blondes, trent reznor of nine inch nails, boy george, rick atsley, isis, the village people, some members of propaghandi, a lot of gangsta rappers are apparently closet homosexuals, that is if you believe youtube comments--i think i'm digging myself a hole again, back to the point ... ), but again, as far as advertising and distribution of said music, people will market what they think will get them the biggest possible audience. unless it's kept subtle enough that most people don't catch it right away (like "Lola" for instance, or almost every song from the 60s and 70s regarding drug use [i couldn't think of another song off the top of my head]), anything that might come across as too blatantly, for lack of a better term, "gay", it might not turn out so well. is it fair? no. is it true? from what i've seen, yes.
this video is billy squier. i've gotten into his music a bit more over the last year or so, but this video killed his career, and according to a lot of people, ruined a perfectly good song. i don't remember how to embed video, you'll have to copy & paste the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR0j7sModCI
I'm straight. Which is to say, I am overwhelmingly heterosexual. Although, as Kinsey showed, it's a little more complicated than that- sexuality is not a binary, but rather a scale upon which complete heterosexuality, true bisexuality and complete homosexuality are just points.
I do occasionally find guys attractive, I just find the idea of gay sex or analingus disgusting, so I've never pursued anything like that. In the words of Bill Hicks, I'm just a pussyholic.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem with relationships between consenting adults, whatever their gender. I do get a bit pissed off with any aggressive identity politics, but ultimately it's just a reaction by people who feel oppressed by small-minded homophobes and feel the need to assert their identity.
In my experience, the most militant gay people tend to be those who've just come out of the closet. They've been hiding their true identity for years (possibly decades) and have come to the point where they've just started accepting themselves.
My question is this:
Why do so many gay people act in such an intolerant way towards bisexuals?
I do occasionally find guys attractive, I just find the idea of gay sex or analingus disgusting, so I've never pursued anything like that. In the words of Bill Hicks, I'm just a pussyholic.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see any problem with relationships between consenting adults, whatever their gender. I do get a bit pissed off with any aggressive identity politics, but ultimately it's just a reaction by people who feel oppressed by small-minded homophobes and feel the need to assert their identity.
In my experience, the most militant gay people tend to be those who've just come out of the closet. They've been hiding their true identity for years (possibly decades) and have come to the point where they've just started accepting themselves.
My question is this:
Why do so many gay people act in such an intolerant way towards bisexuals?
On the contrary, I like a little mild buttsexx in the morning, but the camping I can do without - especially from straight men, when it's just confusing. My point is that I can understand people's prejudice not against gays, but against 'typical' or 'common' 'gay behaviours.'UncertaintyPrinciple said:
Note extreme inverted comma use.
I'm... sorta hetero/bi/asexual (having absolutley no interest in sex whatsoever), but I'm all for gay rights, believing in equality for all people... the problem is, some people are really, well, close-minded.
I just realised what you were talking about.Zachary Amaranth said:We certainly weren't. I didn't use it intentionally, or to parallel your own. My bad. XDWardnath said:Not sure we're talking about the same spectrum here.Zachary Amaranth said:
But yeah, I agree with you for the most part.
*another ubersigh*The Robotman said:
"I say IN MY OPINION"
No you don't. Not once did you say that. All of your arguments are claimed as facts, or at least implied that way. Lying doesn't get you anywhere in an argument.
"Ipods to Izunes (izunes? wut) what the fuck (obligatory cuss?) are you man boodah baadah"
It's a comparison to another thing that isn't necessarily based on choice, running along your logic. If you can't see it, well, again, too bad.
"I never said that bisexuals (no hyphen there bro) are addicted to sex."
You never what now?
"You are not the ultimate benefactor here. NO ONE IS. Get off yer throney~"
Of course I'm not. But I can still be right.
"And if you seriously believe in statistics, then what does that tell EVERYONE here about how valid your opinions truly are?
Yeah. That's what I thought."
That's horribly worded, but I'll assume you're trying to say that everyone here agrees with the points you and Formless made. That's _two_ people, remember. Not everyone. This topic is composed of over 600 posts, and so far one other person has agreed with you. That's not everyone.
I don't think that's what you thought. What I think you thought is, "Trololololol, lolol, lololo, oh-oh-oh-oh-ohhh."
I'm all for gay rights. I myself am straight, but I find the kind of ignorance displayed by strong homophobics to be incredibly frustrating and annoying.
Hell, my girlfriend is bi!
But even before her, I was all for them to be happy, as everyone deserves the right to be happy, and no one else has the right to take that away.
Hell, my girlfriend is bi!
But even before her, I was all for them to be happy, as everyone deserves the right to be happy, and no one else has the right to take that away.
I'll admit that I'm not totally comfortable with the idea of homosexuality. I accept it, and I'll do what I can to help keep their rights from being obstructed, but it makes me feel a tad bit uneasy. Agreed with most other folks about what happens behind closed doors is none of my concern though.
What you describe is very reasonable and thankfully not what I was talking about. Your story was really just about poor behaviour (as you point out, it would be really obnoxious if a straight person did it too). I was trying to get at the issue of people who "don't mind gay people", but have some big problem with men acting feminine or people acting "stereotypically gay".ideitbawx said:
It's one thing for someone to act blatantly irresponsible. It's another thing entirely for someone to talk in a voice you don't like, wear clothes you don't approve of, or use mannerisms that bother you. People try to defend it by saying "oh, if a straight guy did those things, it would bother me too" (though I have to wonder why it would bother you, don't you have better things to worry about?). But really, a better comparison would be whether it would bother you if straight men did stereotypically straight things. You're bothered by gay men who like fashion, but are you bothered by straight men who like sports? You don't like the way stereotypically feminine gay men talk, but do you dislike the way stereotypically masculine straight men talk? In all likelihood, you don't even realize that most straight men speak in a certain way in the same way that you don't hear an accent in the voices of people who speak with the same accent you do.
That's more what I was trying to get at. And as a footnote, I do take it personally. It's an attitude I have to deal with on an almost daily basis - self-righteous people who are "for gay rights" as a sort of political correctness who nevertheless turn their nose up if I cross my legs or speak in too feminine a tone. In a world where men are regularly murdered for being "too feminine" I wish more people took it personally.
I'm a lesbian. Obviously I'm for equal rights for obvious reasons. I think some people need to wake up and smell the freakin' roses. It irritates me to a ridiculous degree that people will hate me for something I had no say in.
And honestly, I don't like seeing same-sex couples making out in the middle of a public place anymore than I like seeing a straight couple do it. Being around people in relationships makes me feel a combination of awkward/annoyed/lonely regardless of gender/age/whatever.
I realize I've said the same thing that most people have. Just throwing my two cents in.
And honestly, I don't like seeing same-sex couples making out in the middle of a public place anymore than I like seeing a straight couple do it. Being around people in relationships makes me feel a combination of awkward/annoyed/lonely regardless of gender/age/whatever.
I realize I've said the same thing that most people have. Just throwing my two cents in.
I didnt get the arrow thing.arragonder said:
lets look at it from a different way, not the all liberal way. every medical student knows, that the continuing of your species is a necessary thing to do. and what if a group says that they wont do it, because "whatever" and because they can save so much money on children and family. why do they need children if they can have a nice new car?
the term homophobic can be used against every group of people who care about, lets say, family values. I agree that there can be people who are afraid of gays, but I believe that most of the "homophobes" are people who just disagree with the lifestile of gays. And thats why they are being called homophobic, so that their argument can be pushed beside because its only fear.