Gene Simmons Declares War on Anonymous

[Turbo_Destructor]

Well i gotta say best of luck to him. music/movie/game downloading is essentially stealing (even if i download the occasional thing myself) - it is an economic leakage and puts people out of their jobs, and he is a member of the music industry - so basically he is being stolen from.

You're still kind of a dick Gene Simmons, but I respect your cause.

 

[Giest4life]

There is One Gene Simmons, and there are a million+ anons. Yep, he's pretty much fucked.

 

[FaceFaceFace]

That's the common way of looking at it, but I've never agreed with that. I know my view isn't widely shared so I'm not trying to call you wrong or anything, but:
Would you ever steal a candy bar? I wouldn't. Why? Stealing is wrong. Sure, all "bad" things are excusable in certain situations, but I think we can agree that stealing a candy bar has to be the result of a simple disregard for law and/or moral values. Taking what is not yours without good reason is wrong. In other words, those who would commit crimes are fundamentally different from ordinary people, and common thieves are closer to murderers than to regular human beings.

If that's not convincing, how about this simple idea. How many people's lives would be ruined if that was the penalty for stealing a candy bar? Probably none, because no one would steal a candy bar if the punishment was that bad. If the punishment fits the crime, people are more willing to commit the crime. It's like opportunity cost in economics. When the US government raised safety requirements in cars, people in general started driving faster and pedestrian deaths increased. If the risks of an action, ie stealing a candy bar, are huge, then no one will take the risk. If every crime was punishable by death, only the stupidist or most insane would actually commit crimes.

you ever been or used youtube, im quite sure fair use will not protect you. Im assuming you have as most of the internet as we know it has been there and listened to music at least once.

edit sorry reread your post

so j walking should equal death eh?
littering should equal death?

i get what your saying here but you do see why this isnt the case... right?

And i really dont care which side wins as it stands, its not going to change all that much anyway if either side wins.

I think the old saying goes Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

As far as I'm aware, there is a difference between listening to a song and downloading it, but I'm no copyright expert.

And to answer the question, unless I'm missing something the only reason I see why small crimes don't have inordinate punishments is that most punishment systems are based on proportionate retribution, and my entire point is that disproportionate punishments would be far more effective.

And obviously, no, J-walking and littering should not equal death, but there is a distinct and easily maintained difference between theft or violence and disobeying civil regulations, like those or speeding or solicitation. Crimes like those are differentiated in today's world by fines vs. jail time, and they would be differentiated in a world where disproportionate penalties were normal.

 

[Macgyvercas]

I fear to watch, yet I can not turn away.

*munches popcorn*

At least it will be a good show.

Is there any way that both can lose? Please?

The only way that will happen is if they pull out the internet nukes.

 

[lacktheknack]

The real question to me is can he really find out who took down his site?

I don't think so.

Well, then he is an idiot. If there would be anyone who could call out his false threats, it would be anonymous.

He thinks they can be caught... but they never have. That's why I'm waiting for Simmons giblets to hit the wall fairly soon.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

The Unstoppable Force VS The Immovable Object. This war is going to be like Hulk VS Superman.

 

[zidine100]

I can just listen on Grooveshark or Youtube or whatever, and that's good enough for me. I'll just grab the popcorn and sit back while I watch Gene Simmons and The Internet duke it out...

i hate to tell you this but that in itself would probably class as piracy. (youtube anyway, ive never heard of grooveshark myself.)

 

[Canid117]

Unless you somehow ended internet anonymity entirely

Key words, here.

If you're in the USA... then this should be frightening to you, because that's what's coming. Obama wants an internet kill switch, as it is... you really think it's out of the question that there would eventually be some law in effect that would force internet users to somehow log on under a single user profile directly tied into their personal information? Yea it'd be a ***** to set up at this point... but out of the question? No.

Anonymous, those stupid, arrogant fuck tards who think they can just bully everyone until they get what they want, are only going to make this a reality faster than it would normally have happened.

Once the situation with "anon" is taken before a federal judge, politicians, etc, whatever... things are going to start rolling to close down the internet in ways that don't allow that type of behavior.

And we'll have Anon to blame for speeding the process along by serving as a PRIME example of why internet anonymity is dangerous.

While 4Chan can get nasty they are not enough of a nuisance to the government for them to be the catalyst for the end of internet anonymity. A kill switch does not mean they would no longer be anonymous. It is also a nasty breach of the constitution and so would be highly unlikely for anything like this to actually pass. The constitution would keep the government from removing internet anonymity and the free market is going to prevent private companies from trying it because they would lose all their customers.

 

[MurderousToaster]

While I personally find the actions of Anonymous kind of annoying, what he's suggesting is to effectively seek out and destroy the lives of anyone who's every downloaded a song illegally. I don't think it's unfair for his site to go down after saying something like that. It's somewhat akin to somebody getting their car's tires popped for saying that the death penalty should be instated for petty theft.

Quite frankly, Simmons seems like a prick to me.

 

[putowtin]

cough**publicity stunt**cough

 

[radicaledward92]

Says the man whose son blatantly plagiarised one of the trinity manga for his own.

Do you mean Bleach or is this more plagiarism I haven't heard of? Because I remember seeing the side-by-sides of his art [http://community.livejournal.com/bleachness/446299.html] and Tite Kubo's and there's characters that are basically redrawn/retraced panels of Kenpachi and Orihime with... er... bleached hair. (And a bunch of other dubious stuff.)

Second, they might find their little butts in jail, right next to someone who's been there for years and is looking for a new girl friend.

So piracy is evil but rape is totally okay. Good work there.

But piracy hurts his bank balance and rape is something that happens to other people. So it's OK.

I think he's pissed that his kid was caught copying from all them famous manga books, and is taking it out on the internet...LOL!

 

[ZodiacBraves]

This is ridiculous, piracy has and will exist with or without anon.

He never stated he was going after Anon because of piracy. He made an opinion about piracy which incited Anon's wrath. After they brought down his website he "declared war" with them as payback.

Is the underlying battle focused around piracy? Yes, but he probably wouldn't have struck back if they hadn't made the first blow.

 

[zidine100]

That's the common way of looking at it, but I've never agreed with that. I know my view isn't widely shared so I'm not trying to call you wrong or anything, but:
Would you ever steal a candy bar? I wouldn't. Why? Stealing is wrong. Sure, all "bad" things are excusable in certain situations, but I think we can agree that stealing a candy bar has to be the result of a simple disregard for law and/or moral values. Taking what is not yours without good reason is wrong. In other words, those who would commit crimes are fundamentally different from ordinary people, and common thieves are closer to murderers than to regular human beings.

If that's not convincing, how about this simple idea. How many people's lives would be ruined if that was the penalty for stealing a candy bar? Probably none, because no one would steal a candy bar if the punishment was that bad. If the punishment fits the crime, people are more willing to commit the crime. It's like opportunity cost in economics. When the US government raised safety requirements in cars, people in general started driving faster and pedestrian deaths increased. If the risks of an action, ie stealing a candy bar, are huge, then no one will take the risk. If every crime was punishable by death, only the stupidist or most insane would actually commit crimes.

you ever been or used youtube, im quite sure fair use will not protect you. Im assuming you have as most of the internet as we know it has been there and listened to music at least once.

edit sorry reread your post

so j walking should equal death eh?
littering should equal death?

i get what your saying here but you do see why this isnt the case... right?

And i really dont care which side wins as it stands, its not going to change all that much anyway if either side wins.

I think the old saying goes Stuck between a rock and a hard place.

As far as I'm aware, there is a difference between listening to a song and downloading it, but I'm no copyright expert.

you have to downloaded it to listen to it, streaming is of no exception here (if youtube is legal then watching tv shows online (not bbc i and other places as that you know what im meaning) is legal), as its streamed to your computer and stored in your temporary files, therefore you have downloaded the song itself and have broken copyright laws.

and i guess we will agree to differ on the law part here.
But it does sound a bit like a slippery slope to me,

but then again i dont know much about law, just what i was taught in my info systems class (they taught some basic things about copyright law and well this was discussed to a point(Streaming data of course not the slippery slope that was in philosophy) way back when i was in the academy, so take my opinion as you will.

and i just don't like excessive and knowingly unfair punishments in favor of deterrence, but hell that's just my opinion and im not going to question that it wont work, im just saying it just doesn't fit into my moral compass. Although i do see its advantages.

 

[Arcanist]

Simmons, I know you're not stupid, but... well... there's no other way to say this.

You just declared war on the internet.

YOU'RE GOING TO LOSE.

 

[bjj hero]

Gene could win that firstfight and sleep with all their women before dinner.

Please, like any of them have ever had sex without paying for it...

Unless you are talking about their sisters and mothers...

 

[FaceFaceFace]

snip

snip

snip

you have to downloaded it to listen to it, streaming is of no exception here (if youtube is legal then watching tv shows online (not bbc i and other places as that you know what im meaning) is legal), as its streamed to your computer and stored in your temporary files, therefore you have downloaded the song itself and have broken copyright laws.

and i guess we will agree to differ on the law part here.
But it does sound a bit like a slippery slope to me, but then again i dont know much about law.

and i just don't like excessive and knowingly unfair punishments in favor of deterrence, but hell that's just my opinion and im not going to question that it wont work, im just saying it just doesn't fit into my moral compass. Although i do see its advantages.

Yeah I'm no expert on copyright law so I didn't know that, thanks. It's an issue on which I usually have to agree to disagree, as my views apparently tend towards totalitarianism. It is definitely a slippery slope and I agree that people shouldn't be given punishments too steep for the crime, but it's my belief that in such a situation no one who is smart enough to be alive would break a law with such a harsh punishment. It is definitely an ethical dilemma, though.

 

[FieryTrainwreck]

Simmons is a relic, as are the many outmoded organizations standing behind him.

The US economy continues to tank because we continue to rely on intellectual property as our primary export and source of revenue, and the rest of the world simply isn't interested in paying for shitty music/movies/games anymore.

I can't really put into words how much I despise the modern day entitlement of the "artist". Every idiot thinks he deserves money for singing a song, writing a book, filming a movie, etc. It's fucking ridiculous, and it's tremendously insulting to actual artists.

 

[Thedayrecker]

He'll learn eventually

 

[Chorionicstu]

Gene Simmons can (puts on sunglasses) kiss my butt.