"Girl Gamers"

[Footinbox]

When I hear the expression 'girl gamer' it is normally said in a way that sounds shocked that there is a girl gamer since there tends to be a lot less girl gamers than boy gamers. This is not a sexist statement, it's true. I don't see how people could get insulted by this anyway, it's not like it's an insult to be told to not game. People who get out and do stuff with their lives tend to be treated more favorably than people who sit around playing games all the time. I personally am one of those people who use the 'girl gamer' term, although I try not to. It just is weird to see a girl playing a game considering every girl I know outside of the gaming world (I don't know any in the gaming world anyway) hates video games.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

No, but you belong to a minority that just so happens to be determined by that in the gaming culture. Just because people call me a "Retro" gamer, doesn't mean I complain to them that they think I wear bellbottoms and platform shoes! I obviously understand the context is that I play old games, and to hell is anyone thinks that's stupid. Girl gamers are called such because it's a classification for a type of gamer, nothing more, nothing less.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

Agreed. Game companies aren't out to get women with their secret mastermind plot of being as absolutely sexist as possible. They want to make money, like any other company, and it just so happens it's easier to copy-paste single player models into multiplayer.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

This I DON'T agree with. Harassment is harassment, no matter what. It would be no different if a guy felt uncomfortable with a girl making sexual advances on him; playful, meaningful or derogatory, it really doesn't matter. Some guys just forget a little thing caled "chivalry" and haven't been brought up properly.

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

No. Flat out no. NO ONE has ANY right to demand something of a videogame company. It's art. you take it for what it is and if you don't like it, go play something else.

 

[Aardvark]

I went out with a gamer girl once. She dumped me for some guy she met through WoW. Who then promptly cheated on her. I learned two things. One: Karma does exist and seems to be working in my favour. Two: WoW is a massive red flag that I shan't ignore again.

 

[Froobyx]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Don't bother getting pissy about this, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

I thought the EXACT same thing earlier on... If this is on the same thing as I think it is.

 

[Insanum]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

Ahh, see, you got my point. Women are still unequal from men. Therefore, all of this rubbish about "girl gamers" and "sexism" is going to be around for a long time until women are actually, one-hundred percent, equal to men.

Unless I've made a grievous error in judging whether or not that remark was sarcastic, I completely agree with you.

Now im not going to deny that there is some sexism in the workplace, But what about in child custody cases? they favour the mother over the father. Sexist. Woman flirting with a man at work, Flirting. Man flirting with a woman at work, Sexual Harassment. There are SO many examples where women have the upper hand over men.

Recently feminists in France we're protesting against the fact that men are "Mr" but women give their marital status "Mrs, Miss, Etc". Did anyone point out the title "ms" to them?

I have no sympathy for feminists, All they do is complain about minor things & hurt the actual occasions where there is sexism involved.

Incidentally, Anyone noticed that there is no male equivalent to feminists?

 

[aesshen]

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

No. Flat out no. NO ONE has ANY right to demand something of a videogame company. It's art. you take it for what it is and if you don't like it, go play something else.

I agree with the gist of most of your post, but are you serious about this? You think that you don't have the right to want something you didn't like changed in a game? Not even an infuriating inventory system or a messed-up difficulty curve? I think that there's a pretty strong relationship between the quality of a studio and its ability to listen to its customers. I wouldn't call it "demanding" something... but this is capitalism. A company that doesn't do what its customers want isn't going to do that well.

 

[Roxilla84]

Let me state for the record that, as a girl who games, the only experience I have ever had with other gamers (all guys) is that 1) I am cool (jokes on them), and 2) they think my husband is lucky to have a gamer wife, because I get all of his video game jokes and can make some of my own. It's also easier to buy gifts for me because he is familiar with the gaming industry (as opposed to, say, scrapbooking, knitting, sewing, drawing, painting, writing and cooking, which I also do); also, he gets to play what he buys for me, too. I've never been insulted by gamers, they're ust people who are generally happy to have something to talk about in otherwise awkward social settings (project meetings, business dinners, family reunions, business holiday parties, etc.).

 

[HellsingerAngel]

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

No. Flat out no. NO ONE has ANY right to demand something of a videogame company. It's art. you take it for what it is and if you don't like it, go play something else.

I agree with the gist of most of your post, but are you serious about this? You think that you don't have the right to want something you didn't like changed in a game? Not even an infuriating inventory system or a messed-up difficulty curve? I think that there's a pretty strong relationship between the quality of a studio and its ability to listen to its customers. I wouldn't call it "demanding" something... but this is capitalism. A company that doesn't do what its customers want isn't going to do that well.

That was my point. I think it's peachy keen of gamers to ask companies if they could do such and such. You're correct, it's a capatalist market where listening to those buying your products will help gain revenue. But to DEMAND something of a company is out-right ignorant and pig-headed of someone. They owe you nothing! You owe THEM your $60 for taking the time to give you something to do recreationally. Ask and demand are two different things.

 

[metza]

Does anyone past the age of 16 really care about the gender of their fellow gamers? Really? It's such a trivial issue to get caught up on.

this. if everyone could catch up to this viewpoint, the forums'd be a lot less repetetive and the world'd be full of rainbows and marshmallows.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Some guys just forget a little thing caled "chivalry" and haven't been brought up properly.

Is there such a thing as female "chivalry", or did I miss a meeting somewhere?

And "guys being brought up properly"? That's tantamount to "women cooking the meal for their man".

 

[Dahni]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

Ahh, see, you got my point. Women are still unequal from men. Therefore, all of this rubbish about "girl gamers" and "sexism" is going to be around for a long time until women are actually, one-hundred percent, equal to men.

see, what my point was meaning is that gaming is the one place girls can be totally equal and they're still treated like lesser beings on the account of having breasts and it is just a fact of life. The vast majority of gamers i come across that are like that are 16-ish, which is why girls need to face the fact that these hormonal douchebags are gonna have less-than-friendly words to say about them and quit letting it bother them because give it a year or two and all the guys who gave them shit will think they're amazing.

 

[Footinbox]

I agree with Dahni that the term 'girl gamer' is overly used, that gender should not matter. But I am being hypocritical seeing as how I do tend to use the word [although I do my best not to]. And I do not mean to bash all of the talking here, but the conversation is no longer about female gamers but about feminine equality. Why is that? I'm all for female equality but this is gaming people, why is this getting so out of hand? You're only suppose to say what you think of the term 'girl gamer', not about which gender can drink/fight/cuss/etc better. And Dahni also has a point that games have been a man's space for quite a while with even today much fewer female gamers and that those female gamers will most likely be subjected to sexism. Am I saying that's correct? No. But like everything else, guys getting use to female games will take some time.
And JanatUrlich is a perfect example of someone who is not talking about the original topic BUT talking immaturely about the new topic that has arisen from the original topic.
All-in-all people, get back to the original discussion or do not talk. This is not a discussion on equality between men and women, it's a discussion of women making a larger appearance in the gaming world to the point the term 'girl gamer' has been coined.
Actual Discussion: I agree that 'girl gamer' should not be used but it will take some time. As I said, I use it but it is lessening. Someday [hopefully soon] that term will be gone. Until then, stop making equality protests on websites like this. What status women do have has been earned through skill and proof of their equality, not by random and immature babble on a game review website. And to guys, why not accept girls into gaming? I'm sure they'd include us in their things [what few of us that want to be involved in their things] and yet you do not see men bitching about not being accepted by women. Wanna know why? They treat us better than we tend to treat them.

 

[justhereforthemoney]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Don't bother getting pissy about this, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

Gaming is an industry so I agree with you that naturally companies cater towards the majority more because it is where they will get most of their money. I think the argument among some/most *girl gamers* is is it too much too ask for more female characters or slightly more female input; nothing too big to go into the game to ruin it, just enough to greater appease *girl gamers*.

 

[Mordwyl]

Of course there's much less female game players in the world. Count the ratio between developers that cater to strictly masculine interests, the opposite and those that cater for both. You'll see where the results gravitate.

Women make up the majority of the world's population today and they're likely to be interested in less physical means of entertainment (honestly ladies, how many of you enjoy football/soccer compared to guys?), so why developers don't start to exploit this fact and make games that would make them WANT to play, not that girly shovelware crap that's shoved in their faces.

I dream of a future where there are as many girls enjoying a good action game as there are guys.

 

[SantoUno]

To me gamers are gamers, though I would absolutely enjoy gaming with more girls because I'm sure they don't shout idiotic obsceneties on XBL like most guys do.

 

[ninja_thae]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

Ahh, see, you got my point. Women are still unequal from men. Therefore, all of this rubbish about "girl gamers" and "sexism" is going to be around for a long time until women are actually, one-hundred percent, equal to men.

Unless I've made a grievous error in judging whether or not that remark was sarcastic, I completely agree with you.

Now im not going to deny that there is some sexism in the workplace, But what about in child custody cases? they favour the mother over the father. Sexist. Woman flirting with a man at work, Flirting. Man flirting with a woman at work, Sexual Harassment. There are SO many examples where women have the upper hand over men.

Recently feminists in France we're protesting against the fact that men are "Mr" but women give their marital status "Mrs, Miss, Etc". Did anyone point out the title "ms" to them?

I have no sympathy for feminists, All they do is complain about minor things & hurt the actual occasions where there is sexism involved.

Incidentally, Anyone noticed that there is no male equivalent to feminists?

Male equivalent to Feminists? Actually, they do exist, but they're going by Right Wing Conservative Christians now.

Apparently it looks better on a letterhead.

 

[MGlBlaze]

To me gamers are gamers, though I would absolutely enjoy gaming with more girls because I'm sure they don't shout idiotic obsceneties on XBL like most guys do.

Likewise... I'm thinking on trying out XBL, even though I think it's a rip-off. How often should I expect to meet the same nasal-sounding mouth-breathers that you're talking about it, and is there an option to avoid players because they're douche-bags and very unlikeable?

 

[Assassin Xaero]

is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

I don't see any problem with it. Actually, especially in multiplayer games, I think they should have an option to have a female character.

 

[secretshadow90]

The only thing I have to add is that as a girl gamer myself I get annoyed with the title because people think I like games like Cooking Mama and the like. While I do have a few casual title and a wii, I play them because I only have limited hours in the day and actually do work. I have guy friends who play Animal Crossing. I love Resident Evil and Silent Hill. I am currently working on getting an 360 so I can finally play Bioshock and Dante's Inferno(I'm poor, it happens to the best of us). If people would just accept that "girl gamer" does NOT necessarily mean "casual/new gamer" I'd be fine with the title. As to discrimination, I consider myself lucky that I haven't run into any in real life or video games. Then again, it probably helps that I don't play MMORPGs (back to that whole lack of time thing).

 

[mattiboi24]

If you have a male and a female in a room, no matter what happens they're still a male and a female. They are fundamentally different. You can treat them equally, but they will never be the same. Because of this there are legitimate grounds to discriminate (e.g. things which emphasis the different male/female ways of solving problems, and the obvious one, different bodies), but clearly the public sphere (e.g. workplace, political arena) is not a legitimate place for that. Now, as for gaming, clearly gamer girls are much more rare than gamer guys, so sexism shouldn't really come into it. If the market is catering to its demographic (and I'm just guessing here but let's say its 80% for most games) then asking them to change for the few girls who might play is like asking the House of Commons to make sure it has an MP from every religion, regardless of how big.

Either way, I agree with Space Spoons.

And just in case people misconstrue my words somehow, most of my favourite people are gamer girls. -_^