"Girl Gamers"

[MGlBlaze]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

Ahh, see, you got my point. Women are still unequal from men. Therefore, all of this rubbish about "girl gamers" and "sexism" is going to be around for a long time until women are actually, one-hundred percent, equal to men.

People are people if you ask me. Those who pay attention to precieved inequalities are douchebags, just like the people who act and treat the different genders equaly.

This of course means that the human race is FULL of said douchebags and people have a long way to go.

 

[Zenn3k]

Girl gamers are great, I wish I could find one in real life.

But my current girlfriend couldn't aim a thumbstick, hold the left trigger and pull the right trigger if the life of herself, me, and everyone she has ever known depended on it.

 

[IHaveNoCoolness]

Sure it's fair for females to demand more female related options in games.

It's just as fair for the companies to do market research and determine it isn't worth their time for it... then it's just as fair for them to lose those customers to companies that will put in the time and effort.

I think the real problem is with the objectification and portrayal of the strength and value of women in video games. That's the real issue...

 

[Gxas]

see, what my point was meaning is that gaming is the one place girls can be totally equal and they're still treated like lesser beings on the account of having breasts and it is just a fact of life. The vast majority of gamers i come across that are like that are 16-ish, which is why girls need to face the fact that these hormonal douchebags are gonna have less-than-friendly words to say about them and quit letting it bother them because give it a year or two and all the guys who gave them shit will think they're amazing.

This just backed my point up.

People will never, ever be equal.

"As a species, we're fundamentally insane. Put two of us in a room together and we'll start thinking of ways to kill the other."
-quote from "The Mist" by Stephen King-

You see, humans will always try to better one another and we all look for reasons that we are better than someone else.

I understand what you are trying to say, but it won't stop and other people won't stop either. You might say, "Oh, just ignore it. Don't let it get to you."

Sorry to say, but, easier said than done.

 

[PrimoThePro]

... will you marry me?

 

[Dahni]

I understand what you are trying to say, but it won't stop and other people won't stop either. You might say, "Oh, just ignore it. Don't let it get to you."

Sorry to say, but, easier said than done.

you're telling that to someone who's been bullied, battered and abused for the past 12 years for the fact that they have red hair and glasses.
I know it's easier said than done, i probably know that better than you do.
thing is, if someone has any willpower they can ignore it.
me for example. I'd probably be a nervous wreck if i hadn't learned to ignore it.

 

[Dahni]

is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

I don't see any problem with it. Actually, especially in multiplayer games, I think they should have an option to have a female character.

I'm not talking about multiplayer games, I mean games that aren't completely/at all multiplayer. would you be up to the task of re-writing a full game to make up for the fact that some girls want to play the game as a female?

 

[Caligulove]

I really do not understand the whole looking down on gamers if they are girls. Or somehow not wanting to play with them.

Fuck, most of the time when I play online I don't learn anything about someone Im playing with/against besides how well they do. I couldnt give a shit about your gender. You're here to play and have fun- so am I.

And over at a party... if ANYONE says that they can beat me on Expert songs of Drunken Rock Band... you'd better put up or shut up- dont care about your gender. Cos' either way Im about to have fun drinking and playing a fun game in a little bit. And that is always the best time to lose brain cells while drinking.

The malarkey of being against girls in more things besides gaming is going to be around for awhile since it all goes back to how we see ourselves and genders in society. And that is changing, but there still is inequality that I know will pass if we all just don't care about the fact that girls can kick your ass... and then let the ones who take issue with that- die off.

So women! This can all be solved by selective-breeding.
Keeping the traits and qualities of open-thinking men in the pool, ladies! And the men will have a good time being open-minded... and hopefully so will you.

Now if you excuse me, I'm off to get my ass handed to me in MW2 by my friend Brianna (Ive never beaten her)
*but when it changes to Super Smash or Splinter Cell... ohh hohoho... *****, youre going down

 

[Dahni]

... will you marry me?

who are you talking too?

i get the feeling he might have been directing that at me.
if so,
yes ;D

 

[Flos]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

Your own kind? I thought gamer isn't defined by what's between your legs. That we're just gamers like everyone else.

Technicall your kind? Yeah, no. You are not my kind, sir.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

I like the irony that this implies that men and females are equal and that there's no need for distinction. Especially when it's followed wiiiiiiith:

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot (that's you) can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Doesn't Halo have female Spaaaartaaaans? Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? Wouldn't breasts attract more males than females? We do have our own, y'know. They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority. And yet games are usually shunned when they choose to not include subtitles. There are less deaf male gamers than there are female gamers, I assure you.

You really no nothing of the industry beyond what you think applies based on capitalism and your own ignorance, but okay.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. In other words, OP supports harassment because the opposing force has a penis. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. Those guys are invading what I've always thought of as being my space, my time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. Because if their girlfriends found out that they were sexist pigs/rude nits they'd drop them. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. K. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. Well, you're the professor. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. Because they're really little boys. So yes, they will insult you. And I will report them. :3 Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games. I've yet to have a guy call another guy out on having a vagina.

If you can't handle having to put up with a female mentality, gtfo games. If a person is sexist towards me I have the right to bring the issue into the light. Not doing so promotes a culture based on females being lesser than males. It makes people think that what they do is alright when it isn't. If someone is rude to me, I will bring it up.

Don't bother getting pissy about this because you don't want to put up a good argument, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

Females are perfectly capable of being sexist towards females. The implication that you being female means anything shows your lack of understanding on the subject. No, you're not sexist. You're just stupid.

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead? Asking for female leads =/= demanding the entire game be changed. I very highly doubt any female has asked a game to be completely undone to support a female lead.

ITT the OP doesn't actually know how to make video games. Nobody's going to stop developing gameplay just because some modelers need to add a female design, you nit. "OMGZ, THEIR TUKIN' WAY RESORZES 4 GAEMS." No, the people working on the gameplay aren't the same ones designing the character models. They're not the same ones developing multiplayer or penning the script. If gameplay is shit because they needed to add female aspects to the game, the gameplay was going to be bad either way.

I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers". After you blatantly say you don't want people to get pissy. You won the contradiction award.

Turning a blind eye to harassment, genuinely supporting a male-dominated industry to stay male-dominated, and uninformed on the things you attempt to argue against/for. You're probably the reason we live in a rape culture.

 

[Legion]

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Don't bother getting pissy about this, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

I think this last part is extremely incorrect and sexist in how you make it sound like all guys are that way. Most guys would love to have a partner who also likes games, rather than having to make time for gaming whenever their girlfriend is out or busy.

I have also never seen any guys like that, if anything they desperately seek the approval/attention of the female gamer and I have never been in a game where the guys haven't flirted with the girl instead.

*snip*

I agree with more or less everything you put, but aiming games towards the core demographic may be stupid, but until the industry realises how many girls actually play games this won't change.

People in general used to not be that open about gaming, nowadays that applies much more to female gamers than male ones. They still have all the pink and fluffy stuff aimed at the girls and those stupid pet simulators and whatnot.

 

[ckam]

This suddenly reminds me of Shitsuraken...

 

[Harvey_Danger]

To me gamers are gamers, though I would absolutely enjoy gaming with more girls because I'm sure they don't shout idiotic obsceneties on XBL like most guys do.

Likewise... I'm thinking on trying out XBL, even though I think it's a rip-off. How often should I expect to meet the same nasal-sounding mouth-breathers that you're talking about it, and is there an option to avoid players because they're douche-bags and very unlikeable?

Yeah, there's a feedback system. If you decide someone you played in a game with was too obnoxious, you can go to the menu, submit player feedback, and never see them again (assuming it's negative. If it's positive you will see them MORE often, but at that point it seems like one should just add them to the friends list). There's also the option to easily mute douchebags in most popular online games.

---

OT: There are a lot of social factors in play when it comes to how "girl gamers" are viewed. For example, the view that games are a juvenile past-time, or more specifically, a juvenile MALE past-time. Society tends to disapprove of gamers in general, but girl gamers even moreso. This leads to a primarily male consumer base, which then intimidates women even more, and also tends to isolate some of the base. Obviously, as mentioned with the "chivalry" comment, there are child-rearing issues that are apparent with this as well, but the fact that many youths spend their free-time in a male-dominated environment has a certain effect on their behavior. I, for example, didn't start cursing like a sailor when I played until I joined Live. Compare that to something like a school club, and it's understandable (though not necessarily forgivable) that male gamers may react strangely or adversely to a female in "their space".

My own opinion on the subject is influenced by the fact that I've been getting my girlfriend into games more heavily than she's used to, and often-times the complexity of a game can be intimidating for her (i.e., Halo - she wants to try playing with my friends and I because we have so much fun, but the difference in skill level and even muscle memory makes it hard for her to get into). Obviously I try to help her, but for people of any sex or age, "hardcore" games can be off-putting because of complex control schemes or learning curves. The casual gaming market is trying to appeal to this fan-base, but I think the solution can be found by merely creating better tutorials and a more welcoming (i.e. not presenting women as sex objects or what-have-you) environment in a game, which is less off-putting, and thus leads to more girls, and people in general, playing GOOD, artful, plot-driven games.

 

[Adzma]

You must remember that not all guys have a problem with female gamers, in the same way that not all Muslims are terrorists despite what the media would have you believe. Yes it's true there are some guys out there with serious issues on the subject matter, but they don't reflect every single guy on the planet.

I don't see what the harm is in referring to chicks who play games as "Girl Gamers" because when simply saying gamer most people (not a generalisation, this is true, simply try it out) assume you're talking about a guy. Why? Because games have been a male dominated medium since the 1970s. Throwing some anecdotal evidence in here, I've been playing games since my older brother realised I could hold a controller at four years of age so that's fourteen years spent playing games. In all that time I've met, as in physically face to face, four girls who play games, four. One on the same level that I do, the other three on a more casual basis, but that doesn't mean casual games, they play the same male oriented titles that I do. Don't take me the wrong way, I know there is a good amount of you, I don't go to LANs which would be a contributing factor to the few I've met in real life.

Whether you like it or not, the minority always gets screwed over by the majority.

 

[TailsRodrigez]

is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent game play due to resources being channeled from game play to remaking character customization, changing dialogue and voice overs, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

You don't have to actually try, i mean, all you really need to do is make a game like any other, but put a girl as the protagonist, you don't have to channel the game play if you make any normal game but put in a girl instead. After all, we are all equal.

But, it is true,gaming is for the most part a guy thing, and before main female characters whose initial purpose isn't sex to be used in mainstream games, more girls need to be into gaming. This can be done by putting in girl characters for parts of a game, or make smaller games and market them with your system once in a while to bring them in, and some full games with feminine protagonists as well,like Tomb raider(minus the unlikeable heroine, shitty camera, bad controls, use of the woman's body as the only reason for people to actually buy the game, and a story that is uninteresting) and more girls would connect to that character, and inevitably, other games that what most guys play, strengthening the gaming community as a whole.

Really this can be for any demographic, but developers will never take such risks.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

I don't see any problem with it. Actually, especially in multiplayer games, I think they should have an option to have a female character.

I'm not talking about multiplayer games, I mean games that aren't completely/at all multiplayer. would you be up to the task of re-writing a full game to make up for the fact that some girls want to play the game as a female?

No, for two reasons.
1 - I'm lazy.
2 - Seems selfish when you put it that way.

Could be simple or complicated though. Probably changing the voice files/text (stuff like "he" to "she") and a new model, but other games could be a pain in the ass.

 

[Gyrefalcon]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Ahh, see, you got my point. Women are still unequal from men. Therefore, all of this rubbish about "girl gamers" and "sexism" is going to be around for a long time until women are actually, one-hundred percent, equal to men.

@Gxas: Well, the reason you aren't supposed to hit girls is that you can screw up their ability to reproduce. And if one is pregnant and you can't tell yet and you hit her and abort that child, you won't be charged with a misdemeanor for fighting. You will be charged with murder. Perhaps that will make some sense to you?

Now then, I DO hold doors for guys when their arms are full as do the other women I know. It's called politeness. But when they say that "Chivalry is dead" it is still generally true. The point of Chivalry (as related to door holding, chair adjusting, and throwing one's coat over mud puddles) was to give men a clear cut way to show that they were interested and attentive to a woman. Without a clear set of societal rules men are left asking "What in the world do you want me to do?" and experiencing frustration because the expectations bar shifts. Yes, it may have been out-moded, but now the question of "How can I show her that I like her" becomes a dark and murky thing to answer. And since you are swearing you eliminate yourself from the very definition of gentleman so the point is probably moot.

 

[Rock 'n' Soul]

.

macho, frat boy, "hardcore" type gamer(you know who I'm talking about) .

Are you thinking of the same visor-wearing, collar-popping douches that I'm thinking of? If so, I wouldn't exactlly call them hardcore gamers.

The fun part about those guys is they think they're "hardcore". But then again, they also think madras and Dave Matthews never get old.