"Girl Gamers"

[VanityGirl]

I call BULLSHIT.

Sorry ma'am, but I call bullshit and shenanagins on what you say. You're like the one white lady in the crowd who gets offended because someone said a black joke, even if there are black people in the crowd.

I expect no special treatment in games. I think it's stupid for people to complain treatment in games though. There's jerks on the internet and I deal with it like everyone else, by either outwitting, or out cursing the person in question.

My boyfriend absolutely LOVES playing video games with me, it's how we met actually. So uhm, boom goes your theory?
If we ever fight, we just play the game with each other to kill, beat and or mame the crap out of each other, it's quite relaxing.

Also, I think your statement is full of rash generalizations. It seems like you assume ALL men like to game with only guys, which I know is actually quite the contrary. Also, it seems as if you think every female gamer thinks the men are out to "get" them and get mad when guys (and boys) say sexist things to them. I for one, find it hilarious and usually, like I said before, outwit or outcurse the person in question.


I'd just like to say, thank you for playing the rash generalization game, come back next week for a chance to win great prizes.


Edit: BTW, I love games with girls with big ole boobies. I know it's not really on topic, but I just like seeing how close devs can get on making the perfect female rack. DoA is close, but dammit, they're too jiggly! ><

 

[Azulito]

And you must have been mauled to death by the dogs in COD :-S

Lolz. Yup, I was. I just generally avoided them though. It was just something I was really uncomfortable with, having a german sheperd myself :*(

 

[damselgaming]

The only gripe I have... not being able to use 'me' in REAL matches in wrestling games (see SVR10). I should damn well be able to choose Hell In A Cell if I want.

If guys wanna ask me what I look like when we're playing MW2, then i'll use that to my advantage , distract them with thoughts of me naked, and then shoot the everloving shit out of them.

Oh and also, this whole 'OMG girl gamers' thing is getting real old, real fast.

 

[ajb924]

Why are these threads popping up every damn week? I'm not really a search bar nazi, but this is just a matter of occasionaly LOOKING at the hot topics thing to see this has been overdone so much if it was a steak my DOGS wouldn't eat the damn thing!

Now, I really don't give two shits if girls play video games. I don't really notice, I rarely play with a headset out of fear of those annoying 9 year olds that accuse you of cheating so i don't trell a difference unless their gamertag says something l;ike ZOMGZ LOOK I'M A GIRL. So yea. Theres my opinion.

 

[Thaius]

Check this out:

http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/contentdelivery/servlet/ERICServlet?accno=ED463092

This is a presentation about how sexist and racist games were back when this survey was done: right in the middle of the generation change into the PS2/Xbox/Gamecube era. And it is pretty much crap. Take a look at the "girl-friendly features" on page 16, including things like "Absence of Evil Characters" and "Predictable Rules". Downright insulting if you ask me.

But really, it kind of bugs me that some women make such a big deal of needing more female protagonists in games. I do agree that it doesn't happen enough, but why does that really matter so much? Besides, if a girl stars in a game it's almost always for sex and objectification, so I'm not sure exactly what women want from this...

 

[19]

To answer the question in your edit, there exist many games wherein you can play as either a guy or girl without changing the game or compromising the gameplay. Saints row 2 Fallout 3 and Mass Effect come to mind right now, but there are a ton.
Though I'm a guy, in rock band 2 for example, I like to make female characters so I have something nice to look at while I'm playing.

 

[Silk_Sk]

In the wider topic of gender relations in general, women have obviously come a very long way in our society. This isn't to say they don't still have a bit of a ways to go. However they are past the point where shouting and screaming for higher wages and more empowerment will do more good than harm. Equality has already been achieved for the most part. Women no longer need to be as strong willed as they needed to be to have a voice.

Video games however, have not come so far. It is very conceivably accurate to say it is a "Man's World" where men make the rules. As has been pointed out, very little of video game culture caters to the female demographic.

If women truly want to fight this battle than they need to get that fire back that got them the right to vote. Girls can play all the games they want but if they want to be respected as gamers on the same level as men than they need to start kicking ass and taking names again.

 

[Gyrefalcon]

Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here.

I'd hate to see what you are like when you are then. O-o

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

For the military aspect; it's because of physical and emotional differences. Women are, biologically, not as physically built as men are, nor as capable of accepting suffering and pain (particularly in others) as men generally are. There are always exceptions to the rules, but women are wired differently to men. Female brains develop slightly faster for the same reason.

Spoken like someone who doesn't realize that guns allow everyone to be equal on the field. You don't need huge muscles to swing a sword anymore. A hair trigger works regardless of the age or physical prowess of the person.

"To measure the differences in pain tolerance between men and women, Fillingim uses something called effect size, which compares the differences between the groups to the differences within each group. On a scale of small, moderate, and large, the pain tolerance difference between men and women is considered moderate. In degrees centigrade that translates to a difference of one degree to a degree and a half."
-from "How Men and Women Handle Pain" from Medicine dot net.

And mind you this is off of recent studies. All the past information was that women had higher pain tolerance than men since they have to deal with childbirth. Nice to know that men and women are actually a lot closer.

Women also choose different career paths to men because of different interests and therefore make different amounts of money.

"Female employees of discounter Wal-Mart Stores Inc., Bentonville, Ark., have filed a motion for class certification for sex discrimination in U.S. District Court. If the judge grants the request, the class action case would be the largest employment discrimination case ever brought, including all women who worked for Wal-Mart in the United States at any time since Dec. 26, 1998. The women charge that Wal-Mart, including its Sam's Club division, systematically discriminates against its female employees by denying them promotions and equal pay."
-from allbusiness dot com.

So no, women are passed over who have spotless work records and seniority at jobs due to discrimination. I have shown you my facts. Feel free to show me yours.


OT: The OP is my hero. If only all women were as reasonable as you.

I also believe that making a woman the primary character in a game would likely keep some male players away, as they wouldn't want to play as a chick, particularly if it is obvious she is a chick and it's in the wrong genre. But it probably wouldn't overwhelmingly hurt sales.

Of all the things you've said this one is the most important. "Making a woman the primary character in a game would likely keep some male players away..." Gee, so if it would bother male players it shouldn't be done but if it bothers female players they should just buck up and take it. Feel free to turn the image upside down.

Look at all your game titles and replace all the men with women and all the women with men. Keep their roles the same. Would you still enjoy the games? Or would you want to see more options both for playing male characters and for their supportive roles?

 

[Spekter068]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Because people of both sexes prefer the company of a gentleman (as opposed to a jerk, which is someone who hits people). Yes, women can open the door for themselves, but it's still a nice, gentlemanly thing to do to open it for them. However, if a woman hits a man, yes, he has every right to defend himself and hit her back. Seriously, making a big deal out of proper social etiquette is just silly.

Hell, I was taught to open the door for anyone as a kid, men included.

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

Yes, it certainly does, and it isn't fair.
Some of the restrictions in the military sort of make sense (Please note that I said 'sort of' before you throw this in my face). Women in the U.S. Navy can't serve on submarines, but personally, being the only woman on a tin can shaped like male genitalia with twenty-plus men who haven't seen a woman in a year or so does not sound at all appealing. Now, obviously, a logical solution would be to have an all-female crew, which also makes sense, because women are usually smaller than men and would therefore probably experience less discomfort in the tight spaces of a sub. The problem is the lack of women who are crazy enough to want to volunteer for the Submarine Corps.
I actually find your statistic to be rather amusing (I'm laughing at myself and my fellow men), because in my experience, women possess more common sense than men do. There is no logical reason for Professional Bull Riding (yes, it is a real sport) to exist, but it does, and the testosterone cracks me up. Women aren't driven to do those kinds of stupid things, generally. Okay, yes, I have seen videos of females doing dumb things as well (I'm an avid AFV watcher), but I'm pretty sure the number of clips of guys doing dumb things outweighs them.
I think we [men] are seeing women's demands for equality (which are completely logical and justified) as an affront to our own nutsacks, and it's going to take us a while for us to stop crying about it.
Ladies, I know it seems like nobody's listening to what you say, but believe me, there are guys (like me) who not only listen, but agree with you. I know what it's like to be discriminated against, too: I have ADD, which by definition says I'm a scatterbrained idiot, when statistics show that people with so-called 'learning disorders' could very well be superior to normal people. It's very frustrating.

 

[CHangedUsername]

[http://img39.imageshack.us/i/800pxgirlgamersscreen.jpg/]

[http://img696.imageshack.us/i/1258285067633.jpg/]
Note the disorder of the Shelf behind this employee.

 

[CHangedUsername]

[http://img97.imageshack.us/i/1258476181138.png/]

 

[cschwing]

GRRR ITS A BLOODY GAME!!!!!

(i'm not sexist because: I'm not inbread, i dont have a small P**is so i dont need to put down girls, and because girls have what all guys want so who is really winning?

on a totally random note, go to google and type in: I am extreamly : and see what google auto-fills in. har har har.

 

[Danglybits]

What I hate about my 'own kind' (I'm a gamer, chromosomes are irrelevant) is the type that go through the script of the girl gamer.
1. Someone in game says something that has nothing to do with women whatsoever.
- Girl says, "This is why girls don't play games' and continues to act like she is 'above' whatever 'immaturity' is is taking place.

2. Call people who disagree with her misogynists. It doesn't matter if you mention that you too own a vagina because everyone else who says they're female is lying.

3. After calling the men in game misogynists for not agreeing with her, or making fun of her for being a loud twat complaining about things that didn't happen. She then insults their sexual experience and appeal. They're crap men because they don't have girlfriends or haven't had sex with many girls, which should be how men measure their worth (no pun intended).

I see this scenario played out so many times I made a drinking game out of it. If female gamers want to be treated like equals we need to stop advertising our vagina ownership and play the damn game.

Addendum, sorry but "invading their space" is bullshit. Games aren't just theirs anymore. And they never were, it was a boys club because women didn't want to play not becasue they weren't allowed to.

 

[clairedelune]

Your argument about "invading the man's world of gaming" is about as valid as... well I can't think of an example. Regardless, it's ridiculous. I have met very very very few men who find out that they are playing with a girl and then demand that I leave and stop invading their personal time. Actually, I've never met a guy who did that. I've met guys who were shocked and pleasantly surprised to find a girl, but more often I've met guys who were indifferent. That's the goal we want to achieve though, indifference. And yes, I do expect that games where the gender of the character is irrelevant to the storyline (most RPG's save for US army-based ones which want to remain factually accurate) have an option to create a female character. You basically say that it is a hassle to create a female character and make the model and get the voice acting? Theses are game developers, not teenagers. "It's too much work, I'm too lazy" is not really an argument anymore. Also, you disregard that a lot of guys like to play female characters in games. Sex sells.

Also, if you think video games aren't sexist, you're blind. They are overwhelmingly sexist. Still, for some reason I'd rather play the asskicking barbie doll than the grunting he-man. Sexism goes both ways to an extent in the games in that yes, usually the main characters of either gender are physically idealistic, but you never see the NPC males throw themselves at the female characters like the NPC females do the males.

TLDR: You're an idiot and should probably go back 60 years in time, I'm sure you would like it better then.

 

[Naheal]

 

[Ilovechocolatemilk]

I think the social underpinning of sexism in games(yes it exists, just look at booth babes, Laura Croft, and hypermacho games like Gears of War) Mostly stems from the fact that Geeky dudes are the majority of people who play games. An isolated and fantasy setting, such as that presence in the activity of playing games, tends to interest the often social awkward and removed geek community. Why this community is mostly male goes back to the larger social underpinning of females being more social and less apt to be a reject of society. With a lack of girls, this community simply does not think of the interest of girls and thus will focus on male interests. A more recent injection of of macho, frat boy, "hardcore" type gamer(you know who I'm talking about) adds a new layer of sexism because this group is largely made up of people who are already sexist. It has become cooth to advertise these types of people and thus to accept that sexism in order to better market their products. This creates an overall air of sexism because now the companies are advertise games that follow this mindset of underlying sexism that apply to these gamers. In short, there is a community of gamers who are sexist and that is reflected in the games and the community. Your results may very by the game you play and community you come in contact with but there is still a current of sexism running through games(as it does with all things).
Note: Barbie horse adventure is as sexist as Tomb Raider to me. Games just reflect a larger social normalizing of sexism blah blah blah is my point.

Excellent points, I couldn't have phrased it better myself.

I still think that the OP does have a valid reason for making the point that female gamers shouldn't label themselves as such. If a person's sole interest is the game itself, what does his or her gender matter? Having played games like World of Warcraft (where something like 1/3 of the player base is female), I can say for a fact that any woman who declares herself as such in the middle of the game is simply being an attention-whore. Most sensible women wouldn't go out of their way to point out their gender to other players, especially considering the bias against female gamers in the competitive gaming community.

In short, anyone who constantly tries to remind you that they're a female playing a video game is either an attention whore or a troll, probably a little bit of both. Also, about 99.9% of the time, they will suck at said video game since their interest is not in the game itself, but in the nerd community built around it.

 

[Danglybits]

[http://img97.imageshack.us/i/1258476181138.png/]

Tragically, I see this shit all the time. Art imitates life as they say.

 

[True Nero]

this topic honestly makes me worry about certain people. it's a F***ING GAME! it doesn't matter if you have a god damn vag or penis. all that matters is that we all love shooting the crap out of each other. i'm sick of the girls that play games on XBL and announce that they are girls. so what, are we suppose to be lenient torwards you? are we suppose to tell you that we will protect you. it's always a shot in the dark and we mostly always miss on why you are telling us. being a "Girl gamer" still means your a GAMER and therefore should just play like you normally would. all gamers are different. that's why every freaking deathmatch type game has different classes. we are all different. so why in the world would it matter what's inbetween your legs. just play the damn game.

and for anyone that says they don't hear sexism on XBL, play halo 3 or MW2 for a while....

 

[Deleted]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Don't bother getting pissy about this, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

I agree with you. I'm sick of the girls on xbox live who say 'you got owned by a GURL! LOL!' after every kill. I don't care who you are if you like games you're a gamer to me.