"Girl Gamers"

[quiet_samurai]

Um why are you posting here and invading my space and time, this gaming forum is a "guy" thing

Forums aren't a guy thing, that's drinking and fighting.

Don't forget peeing on stuff.

 

[Renoozo]

Just some background info on me: I'm 19, Male and English (London).

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

Agreed, anyone who defines themselves by the arbitrary background into which they were born, be it race, gender, socioeconomic group etc, and not by what they do is just foolish.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

That said, there would be an opportunity for a 'girl games' market if only game designers knew exactly what that market is looking for. Is it just the exact same games we've got currently, but with the gender of the protagonist flipped? Or would the market prefer hackneyed stereotypical games about puppies and babies?

My point is that the 'girl gamer' community endlessly whines about not having any games 'for girls', but makes no positive action to elucidate what exactly games 'for girls' would be. It clearly isn't the case that the 'girl gamer' community wants a gender reversal for the protagonist because large numbers of games (mainly RPGs) allow for player creation of the protagonist. Of course it's not one size fits all and there's nothing that's going to perfect represent the desires of all female gamers, but I'd imagine that games devs feel quite clueless as to what the market wants at all. The game devs know that if they clumsily slap some killing, heroism and maybe sci-fi themes into a game then common denominator guy will eat it up, but what can be said of the common denominator girl?

You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Okay, seriously, what ... the ... fuck?

I'm a guy, I've been one for almost twenty years, and I have never, in my entire life, met a guy who thought anything similar to the above in regards to gaming. Ever.

Gaming isn't our 'personal space' and it is neither our right nor would I expect it of a guy to verbally attack another gamer for any reason other than negative behaviour. It's just offensive and sexist (to men) to claim that we brutish men are just so simian that we can barely string out anything other than pejorative grunts whenever we find the fairer sex has invaded our big boy time. The insinuation that we don't have the strength of will to tell a girl to fix up if she starts acting in a way that might, hypothetically, drive us away from women as a collective and into the loving arms of other men amongst whom we can share our tales of our lives wrecked by annoying women is so mind bogglingly absurd that I don't know where to start. So here's a bit of clarification:

A) Girls are very, very unlikely to be treated badly. Most guys will treat women significantly better than they will treat other men. I cannot stress that enough. They'll be nicer, they'll be less verbally or physically aggressive, they'll treat you like you're special and they won't contradict you when you're plainly talking shit. Especially if you're pretty. I really don't know who you've been playing with that verbal abuse from men has become so mundane a thing that you've created the above farcical rationalisation to justify it, but whoever it is certainly isn't representative of men as a whole.

B) The above point has its limits. If you act in an unacceptably childish or offensive manner you'll eventually annoy someone enough that they'll stop white-knighting and reciprocate (a lot of girls seem to do this, I don't know, maybe they think they're being edgy and 'one of the guys', but in reality it's just incredibly annoying).

C) You do not understand how most men think. I have never, ever known a guy who spends significant portions of his time having 'guy time' in which he gasses about his girlfriend and the tribulations of women behind her back to other men. 90% of most men's conversations will be jokes if they're with friends. I've only ever known other guys to speak at length about a private issue (especially concerning their girlfriend) if it has a obvious goal i.e. asking for advice. Of course, more intelligent guys will often discuss logic such as science or philosophy when in a serious mood. These differences are the largest I have personally observed between men and women. It seems to me that a lot of inter-female conversation is extraneous or serves no purpose (not being sexist here, I'm not making an objective qualitative judgement, just a subjective) and I don't know a single guy who talks at length about his feelings in the way you've insinuated. Not because we're big macho men and we're above feelings, not because (as quack psychologist like Dr 'Fuckus witus' Phil might say) we've got difficulties communicating emotion but because it isn't interesting.

D) This insulting 'male ego' feminazi nonsense in which we poor men with our barely post-amoeba impulse control can't bear to have women beat us at anything is not only false but incredibly offensive.

E) Finally, despite all my generalisations thus far, one overriding point is that your whole OP stems off a massive generalisation about men. It'd be just as facile for me to state "All girls like ponies and babies and none of them like videogames".

I do find it irritating, as Ephemeral-Addictions above, when girls who game and game well are considered to be "fat dykes" or girls with no life or no friends. And while gaming is still unfortuately considered a "mans world" I know that there is room for all of us to equally enjoy gaming and just get along.

This is an illusion I just had to address: since when has it been the case that guys who're really good at gaming are considered anything other than fat nerds by girls and guys alike? Since when has it been the case that men have venerated the guy with 5 level 80 WoW characters and a brigadier rank on Halo 3? We don't. We don't think that's 'cool' or something to be proud of, most people (regardless of gender) would just think "Oh god, what a nerd". This is the actual male equivalent of the 'fat dyke', not the heroic champion of men that you and most other female gamers seem to portray.

This here is a man filled with sense (and not just because he's from my hometown London, although that could have somthing todo with it.). As stated girls will more often that not, be treated different too guys playing the same game. It's just fact, If not just at first sight, and I feel bad for some of the girls who just want too get on and play the game as you do, having a bit of fun relaxing in the environment. But maybe it's a slight prejudiced judgement here on my behalf but alot of the girls I know have made a bad name for themselves by playing on this fact, which I feel sort of ruins the fun of things.

Now don't get me wrong here, alot of girls I know who play games are a riot to play with and more often than not are mistaken for guys themselves. But as soon as you get a gal who's playing on the fact that some (all be it sad) guys can follow their every word and chase after them like love-sick rabits because they are girls it pisses me off to no end.

I mean like this, my "girlfriends friend" at the time used to play WoW. This girl used to get on webcam and show guild members her boobs for gold in-game. It's this jazz that pisses me off the most because it ruins the reputation girls in the gaming genre, and how some guys are so sad as to WANT to follow someone who's obviously seeking attention. But most of all how 98% of the girls i've met gaming, and of whom some are good mates are nothing like this and just as jazzed off about it all.

 

[Gladion]

I mean like this, my "girlfriends friend" at the time used to play WoW. This girl used to get on webcam and show guild members her boobs for gold in-game.

What the fuck? I love this. I've been reading this thread here for twenty minutes (?), getting a lot of that interesting, sophisticated shit I like so much and then this slaps in my face and I cannot stop laughing. Did that seriously happen? Hilarious. Absolute greatness.

 

[Twilight_guy]

I think the social underpinning of sexism in games(yes it exists, just look at booth babes, Laura Croft, and hypermacho games like Gears of War) Mostly stems from the fact that Geeky dudes are the majority of people who play games. An isolated and fantasy setting, such as that presence in the activity of playing games, tends to interest the often social awkward and removed geek community. Why this community is mostly male goes back to the larger social underpinning of females being more social and less apt to be a reject of society. With a lack of girls, this community simply does not think of the interest of girls and thus will focus on male interests. A more recent injection of of macho, frat boy, "hardcore" type gamer(you know who I'm talking about) adds a new layer of sexism because this group is largely made up of people who are already sexist. It has become cooth to advertise these types of people and thus to accept that sexism in order to better market their products. This creates an overall air of sexism because now the companies are advertise games that follow this mindset of underlying sexism that apply to these gamers. In short, there is a community of gamers who are sexist and that is reflected in the games and the community. Your results may very by the game you play and community you come in contact with but there is still a current of sexism running through games(as it does with all things).
Note: Barbie horse adventure is as sexist as Tomb Raider to me. Games just reflect a larger social normalizing of sexism blah blah blah is my point.

i read your nick and thought O MY GOD!!! then saw your avatar... damn, i really was about to activate my FLAMESHIELD!

There have been so many times where someone reads Twilight_Guy and goes "he reads Twilight, weirdo" but it's really just a truncation of Twilight_Zone_guy that I use because the full name is occasionally too long. I would change it to the full name on the Escapist but I don't think I can alter an account's name. QQ

 

[Fear Gingers]

i hate it when i occasionally meet girls like this on xbox live or steam. i mean your defying your own point by shouting about it. the best thing to do is just play the game and mute the annoying people. because in one day your going to meet loads of people online and the chances are they wont care whether your a girl or not, in fact theyll probably forget playing against you after about an hour.

also this thing about games being marketed towards men is simple. it was a predominetly male market and probably still is so your market towards the majority for the highest profit. eitherway if you just start to not care about this sort of stuff then alot of things get easier because they usually dont matter anyway

 

[Yutakaa]

There will be girls who play games and will think they are special because they are a girl, and then there will be girls who play games and just want to be an equal to all the guys.

It really depends on the girl themself in my opinion, not just the gender as a whole.

 

[wildpeaks]

There will be girls who play games and will think they are special because they are a girl, and then there will be girls who play games and just want to be an equal to all the guys.

And there are girls who play games just because it's fun and don't care whatsoever about labels.

It really depends on the girl themself in my opinion, not just the gender as a whole.

Indeed.

 

[TehCookie]

There will be girls who play games and will think they are special because they are a girl, and then there will be girls who play games and just want to be an equal to all the guys.

It really depends on the girl themself in my opinion, not just the gender as a whole.

Or girl gamers who use their gender as an excuse to why they suck, I find it to be a nice crutch especially since I'm only a casual gamer.

 

[Aerodyamic]

Yay! DRAMA COOKIES!

*runs away and hides*

 

[Deleted]

I agree with you. I'm sick of the girls on xbox live who say 'you got owned by a GURL! LOL!' after every kill. I don't care who you are if you like games you're a gamer to me.

However, the fact remains. You got owned by a girl.

But nobody witnessed it, and its my word against hers.

 

[Weaver]

Maybe if we stopped categorizing people and started looking at them as individuals we wouldn't treat entire groups based on our opinions of said groups, and then they wouldn't complain about being generalized.

Psychologically, humans categorize various objects including animals (which of course, include humans) into groups for quick access when required to make judgments. For humans someone with like traits to their associated group will be associated with the connotations related to that group.

 

[Evil Tim]

I agree with you. I'm sick of the girls on xbox live who say 'you got owned by a GURL! LOL!' after every kill. I don't care who you are if you like games you're a gamer to me.

Yeah, they should know to blow into their microphones and cast doubt on your parentage, mother's faithfulness, race and / or sexuality. Like decent people.

 

[Technomage333]

As a girl gamer myself I have to say I've never really felt prejudiced against in the subject matter or multiplayer experience of gaming. Sure a lot of games don't have female leads, but I'd really rather just play a well written character than a specifically female one. And if there are no games for girl gamers what the heck have we all been spending all of our time on?

 

[twistedshadows]

I find it oddly hilarious that you say gamers shouldn't be distinguished by gender, and then you distinguish gamers by gender. Good job.

As a side note, I only play games that are considered to be "geared toward men." I'm not a tomboy, but I like brutal, bloody games, and I know other girls who have similar preferences. Therefore, when stating that the gaming industry is geared toward guys, that's not really true. It doesn't cater to girls who like to play "girlie" games, but not all girls want to play girlie games. So... yay stereotypes?

 

[Larnifacebanana]

I totally agree with Technomage333, I was a gamer when I met my boyfriend and he's also really into gaming, and we co-op all the time. His friends come over and we all hang out and game with no predujice or discrimination. As far as online, I have the guys on my XBL friends list asking me to join their parties/game all the time, without a second thought that i'm a girl. I personally think the gaming community, especially on XBL is really quite friendly.

 

[Katherine Kerensky]

I love female gamers. they can say some funny things when they get insulted by idiots. they can definitely hold their own. it's not fair that they get insulted, but at least most can beat the person who starts it.
But I never really care about the gender of the gamer. either my ally or my enemy in the game.
only people I don't like are the morons (over-the-top insulters/sexists/racists), 13 year olds (Only if they are of the squeaky scream variety. I have some younger friends on XBL who are decent people.) and teabaggers. If I'm the host, the final one is normally an instant boot. I give everyone warnings.
anyway, onto the actual topic...
If girls want to demand more recognition in the games market, let them.
RPGs are good, because you can choose your player gender = problem solved in that case.
but really, it should stay up to the studio to decide what goes in their games.

 

[Weaver]

I personally think the gaming community, especially on XBL is really quite friendly.

I've clearly entered some kind of parallel dimension where people think XBL is a friendly community.

 

[twistedshadows]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Not all women think that way. Assuming there was a good reason to hit me, I would actually be offended if a guy didn't hit me just because of my gender. And I'd expect a guy to be nice and hold the door for everyone, not just women. Similarly, I'll hold the door open for anyone, and am nice to everyone (and I pay for my date's meals as often as he pays for mine). It's common courtesy, which doesn't apply to only one gender.

I know quite a few women who agree with true equality.
The women who act like they want equality but still try to uphold outdated customs are being sexist themselves.

Nice work.

No really. You've pretty much put into perspective pretty much everything that was once a "mans world". Things evolve over time as they should. As more females want to do "men only" things it's not us who gets used to it it's them. No one has the right to be treated with disdain based on sexuality or race in a free society and I don't think females should have to put up with bad behaviour online, we don't have to out in the real world so how is it any different?

If everyone had your attitue we'd still be barefoot and pregnant, chained to the stove.

So very true.