"Girl Gamers"

[Pegghead]

You do make a good point about developers making every woman in a game some lamp-post with melons attached. But hey, most of us guys don't exactly look like the muscle bound blonde hunks you get in most games, especially not male gamers. Personally I don't really mind playing with women, as long as we're able to work together (Or attempt to kill each other if the game requires it) I'm fine. But I do tend to have certain problems with female gamers, who don't really play many games. Unfortunately this takes up a vast majority, I don't mind playing with them but after the third time you hear a girl talking about the cute chubbyness of the boomer (Stemming from personal experience) it does tend to get a little annoying.

 

[Evil Tim]

You do make a good point about developers making every woman in a game some lamp-post with melons attached. But hey, most of us guys don't exactly look like the muscle bound blonde hunks you get in most games, especially not male gamers.

Yeah, that Mario is a real bruiser. Male characters are allowed to be more or less anything they like, from muscular hulks to androgenous waifs and bearded nerds. It's a ridiculous generalisation that 'most games' feature guys who look like bodybuilders.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

I totally agree with Technomage333, I was a gamer when I met my boyfriend and he's also really into gaming, and we co-op all the time. His friends come over and we all hang out and game with no predujice or discrimination. As far as online, I have the guys on my XBL friends list asking me to join their parties/game all the time, without a second thought that i'm a girl. I personally think the gaming community, especially on XBL is really quite friendly.

Admittedly it has certain moments however if you have ventured upon Halo 2 online during its insane popularity run you may no longer find that statement accurate. Personally I have no qualm with who is my friend or foe online; the former I desire to have some sense of the team concept (IE: Do not rush in rambo style unless meant to play decoy) and for my foe... tis important you die for my victory. Man or woman, my gun/sword/whatever is not about to play favorites.

 

[jboking]

You know, I had this really long rant that I was going to post. However, after I had finished writing it I asked myself a fundamental question, one that made me look at the few paragraphs I had written in a different light. The question was this:

There are girls that are gamers and play online. Why does this matter?

Online we are all just avatars and gamertags anyway. I don't give a crap if the person behind the tag is a girl, and most of the players I'm friends with online feel the same. Not only that, but the only time I've ever seen a guy get up in arms about being beat by a girl is when the girl who beat him felt like spamming over the mic, "You got beat by a girl!" As though it were some sort of grievous insult.

Maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there is a giant injustice in the gaming community that I'm not seeing. If someone would like to point it out, be my guest.

I erased my entire rant, realizing it was just pretentious rambling about something that does not matter. Let's just go play some games.

 

[Yukinari]

Does anyone past the age of 16 really care about the gender of their fellow gamers? Really? It's such a trivial issue to get caught up on.

This right here.
If you are at least decent at a game and have fun with others, then there should be no issues about which gender you are.
(P.S Boob Joke may be used)

 

[ravensshade]

I personally think the gaming community, especially on XBL is really quite friendly.

I've clearly entered some kind of parallel dimension where people think XBL is a friendly community.

i think he just got lucky

 

[Sgt Doom]

Cock, pussy, meh whatever. You all bleed the same when I headshot you.

 

[humanbeaing]

the whole thing is getting way out of control, in their our never ending quest for equality we objectify men! then call them sexists. "girl gamer" is just another term that gives me headaches.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Seriously? People still care about this s***? Remember the MJ song people: If you wanna make a change then you gotta change yourself first. Or at least that's what I think was the point. I don't remember all that well, but whatever, my point gets across, no? Girls, if you want change, become game designers or just part of the industry. Easier said than done, I know, but nothing comes without effort.

 

[Evil Tim]

There are girls that are gamers and play online. Why does this matter?

Let's say for the sake of argument that we reversed it. All games are now produced primarily for females. Males play games, but the games aren't made with them in mind, nor do they include the possibility of playing as a male character. You have some token male characters who still act like women most of the time, but that's the only bone anyone's prepared to throw you; others are just shown as grunting cavemen or foppish idiots in endless need of being rescued by strong, self-reliant women. To throw in some reverse objectification, the average male character is dressed in a studded thong with realistic ball physics and is a strength 0 magic user obsessed with putting overpriced junk on his crappy car and getting drunk, while the average female in the same game wears practical, sensible clothing, has a well-defined, rounded character, and has a melee weapon that can kill Gods.

And when you point out you don't like this and want to be represented on the same level as females, people just tell you to shut the fuck up and keep on playing the games that either ignore you, stereotype you, or appear to actively despise you. That'd really suck, wouldn't it?

 

[Najos]

This is the same as women expecting men to treat them kindly. Now, I'm not trying to be a dick here, but if you demand equal rights as men, why is it still against moral code for me to hit a girl? You are of the same standing as I am now, why can you hit me but I can't hit back? Also, why should I attempt to be a gentleman for you? You can do everything I can do now, hold the fucking door for me for a change.

Thoughts?

Do the words "Glass Ceiling" mean anything to you? How about the fact that women still face restrictions as to where they can serve in the military? Or how about the fact that women still make roughly 80 cents to the male dollar?

What does any of that have to do with what was said, though? If you demand "equal rights" then you should be demanding I punch you and let the door hit you. Not to mention let you pick up the check, buy me a drink at a bar, and perhaps even date rape me with said drink.

 

[humanbeaing]

actually i like the idea of that game, it would be AWESOME, not the sexism part at the bottom though

 

[jboking]

There are girls that are gamers and play online. Why does this matter?

Let's say for the sake of argument that we reversed it. All games are now produced primarily for females. Males play games, but the games aren't made with them in mind, nor do they include the possibility of playing as a male character. You have some token male characters who still act like women most of the time, but that's the only bone anyone's prepared to throw you; others are just shown as grunting cavemen or foppish idiots in endless need of being rescued by strong, self-reliant women. To throw in some reverse objectification, the average male character is dressed in a studded thong with realistic ball physics and is a strength 0 magic user obsessed with putting overpriced junk on his crappy car and getting drunk, while the average female in the same game wears practical, sensible clothing, has a well-defined, rounded character, and has a melee weapon that can kill Gods.

Is the game fun? That's my only question and the only one I find important.

And when you point out you don't like this and want to be represented on the same level as females, people just tell you to shut the fuck up and keep on playing the games that either ignore you, stereotype you, or appear to actively despise you. That'd really suck, wouldn't it?

Well, that would first require that I don't like it and you haven't given me a significant reason not to.

 

[Captain Pancake]

It's little more than an adjective, don't look too far into it. Don't think you're starting any sort of revolution either, because I've seen at least 6 or 7 threads of similar evocative content over the months, and it just loses it's power after a while.

 

[Evil Tim]

Is the game fun? That's my only question and the only one I find important.

You do realise the ability to personally connect with the game is part of what makes it fun, right? If you feel alienated by the characters and situations, you're not going to be enjoying it anything like as much as you would if you felt included. This is the main problem with people who argue against inclusiveness saying they can't see the problem; of course you can't, you're not being excluded.

 

[Wutaiflea]

I read through some of this and then got bored.

When did we, as women, start becoming so intent on being "more" than women and becoming just as much "men" as the guys? I'm a woman, proud of it and I'm all in favour of equality, but quite frankly, equality should be about choice, not about "taking over guy space".

There's a very simple reason why most games have a gender bias, and that is that the majority of gamers ARE guys, and to my mind, gaming is actually an industry that has progressed quicker in terms of equal opportunities than many others.
For example, there are now a considerable amount of women working in game development and gaming media, and the need for female character creation options now means that most character creation games have a gender selection.

I didn't see if anyone mentioned Final Fantasy X-2 before, but I feel I have to mention that, although I enjoyed the game, I actually thought the attempt to make Yuna into a main character diluted her strength and personality somewhat, and felt like a cynical attempt to cater to feminists than natural character development.
I also found it utterly bewildering that a game that was clearly aimed at women and that 90% of the humour would appeal solely to girls was also enjoyed by men- perhaps this is a sign that men can relate to women better than women relate to men, if you want to complain about stereotypical male leads like that walking-tank-man from Gear of War, etc.

The actual majority of negativity I've ever received as a female gamer has come from other women who aren't gamers, rather than men.

 

[nightwolf667]

There are girls that are gamers and play online. Why does this matter?

Let's say for the sake of argument that we reversed it. All games are now produced primarily for females. Males play games, but the games aren't made with them in mind, nor do they include the possibility of playing as a male character. You have some token male characters who still act like women most of the time, but that's the only bone anyone's prepared to throw you; others are just shown as grunting cavemen or foppish idiots in endless need of being rescued by strong, self-reliant women. To throw in some reverse objectification, the average male character is dressed in a studded thong with realistic ball physics and is a strength 0 magic user obsessed with putting overpriced junk on his crappy car and getting drunk, while the average female in the same game wears practical, sensible clothing, has a well-defined, rounded character, and has a melee weapon that can kill Gods.

And when you point out you don't like this and want to be represented on the same level as females, people just tell you to shut the fuck up and keep on playing the games that either ignore you, stereotype you, or appear to actively despise you. That'd really suck, wouldn't it?

Sign me up! I want to play this game!

 

[IckleMissMayhem]

I hate to criticise what is technically my own kind, being a girl who is fairly into games and all, but this is really getting to me.

First of all, your status as a gamer is not defined by what is between your legs so you are not a "girl gamer", you are a gamer just like everyone else who plays games is and always will be.

Which isn't just something those of us who have our babymakers on the inside need to realise. Girls in games don't need any sort of 'protection' from ze menfolk. We're just as able to get kersploded as anyone else, and we'll deal with it just as well. Whether or not that involves laughing our heads off, or yelling at the screen.

Secondly, the lack of female-orientated options in games is not because developers are out to get you, they're out to get profits. Any idiot can look at the spectrum of gamers and find that the amount of girls is miniscule, particularly with games like Call of Duty and Halo. Pouring time and resources into designing female characters is a waste. Why re-design something that works perfectly well to account for a pair of breasts and attract a couple more sales? They want to put as much time and money into making the game enjoyable for the majority, not a small minority.

True. Also, having to play as a male lead/being surrounded by male NPCs makes it seem a little bit more realistic IMO.

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.

Guys getting pissy I can deal with. I find it quite entertaining, to be honest. What annoys me is when you enter a game, and are immediately asked "are you really a girl?" and/or/followed by "wanna prv chat?" Here's a hint guys, if I'm horny, I'll go talk to/sex up my boyfriend. How many of YOU want to be distracted from the game to talk dirty over the headset mic?
I don't mind being insulted because I've done something daft on a game (it happens, laugh, move on) What I do object to is being patronised, told to f### off out of a game, or dictated to because I'm female.

Don't bother getting pissy about this, I am stating my opinion. I'm a girl so don't think the basis of this is "sexist", or whatever.

Oh, so you can have a rant, but no-one else can? Logic and comments like that's really going to help girl gamers' (yeah, I said it, so bloody what?) integration into the gaming community.

 

[jboking]

Is the game fun? That's my only question and the only one I find important.

You do realise the ability to personally connect with the game is part of what makes it fun, right? If you feel alienated by the characters and situations, you're not going to be enjoying it anything like as much as you would if you felt included. This is the main problem with people who argue against inclusiveness saying they can't see the problem; of course you can't, you're not being excluded.

What can I say, I disagree that there is a serious problem. Of course you say that is simply because I can't see it. So, go ahead and have your problems as I clearly can't understand them and if I state that they don't seem like a big deal to me it is simply because I am blind to the problem.

I could state that I have yet to play a game where the main character was fat and didn't have jokes made about his weight or act like a stereotypical "I can't breath! I can't breath!" fat man. Yet, I still have fun with those games that do make fun of people like me. I dunno, maybe I'm an alien that finds the gameplay to be the most important factor in having fun with a game.

For the hell of it: Over time there have been two games that I have loved more than anything else: Tomba! and Jak and Daxter(well..the whole series of this really). How have games like these alienated any specific community? (not saying you have to answer, but it could be fun)

 

[Tonimata]

Lastly, quit complaining about guys being "sexist" or whatever on games. You are a female invading what guys have always thought of as being their space, their time. A lot of guys I know keep their real lives seperate from their gaming lives. They have girlfriends and yes, they do find them a little irritating at times, so its relaxing to come onto a game and talk to other guys who may be in a similar situation. A girl invading that time can only make them resentful so obviously they're going to be a bit annoyed. They think of their games as a guy thing and the idea of a girl potentially beating them is not favourable. So yes, they will insult you. Yes, they may say some out of order things but a lot of guys are like that to each other all the time and if you can't handle having to put up with the male mentality, then gtfo games.


EDIT: is it right/fair for girls to demand more recognition in a male-dominated market at the possible expense of decent gameplay due to resources being channelled from gameplay to remaking character customisation, changing dialogue and voiceovers, etc to suit the possibility for a female lead?
I'm curious to see what other gamers think about this trend among "girl gamers".

Wow. Just wow. Honestly, I thought this was simply going to be another "Are girl gamers acceptable" thread designed by some brain dead 15 year old. You have a great insight into the human psyche, particularly, that of males, which does tend to sometimes be completely irreverent and contradictive. I have to say, congratulations on your evaluations, I am more than in favour of girl gamers, if only to compensate for the huge amount of prepubescent trolls on XBL, and I also agree with the fact that developers should make games female user friendly. You wouldn't believe the amount of guys that enjoy changing their sex in game, and even if only to please this niche, developers should do it, as another objective of businesses is trying to fill in as many niches as possible to achieve a major section of the market.

Nice job, Dahni