God of War Team "Pulling Back" From Violence Against Women

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

In that first pic it's like she tried to swing a heavy sword too suddenly and is in the process of breaking her spine due to the momentum of the swing, it's actually a really gruesome pic :S Even the facial expression seems to match.

Yeah it's brutal what comic book artists will do to achieve the boobs and butt pose

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

This.

(Although it's not exactly fair to expect the God of War team to understand concepts like nuance or context.)

Right because god of war has never tried to have decent stories. You ever play the first game?

Emphasis on "tried." If I wanted a dark/violent/gritty version of Greek mythology, I'd read one of the epics.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

This.

(Although it's not exactly fair to expect the God of War team to understand concepts like nuance or context.)

Right because god of war has never tried to have decent stories. You ever play the first game?

Emphasis on "tried." If I wanted a dark/violent/gritty version of Greek mythology, I'd read one of the epics.

Those games do have context though it's not hastily written. And you can drop the flamebait

Let's put it this way - I've read a few takes on Greek mythology that I thought dialogued with the source material in an interesting way. God of Am I Edgy Yet Guise is not on that level.

 

[TKretts3]

I've never actually played God of War, but I always thought of Kratos as an indiscriminate killer. Someone who will kill anyone, or everyone - regardless of gender, race, age, et cetera - to achieve his goals...

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

It's pretty ridiculous. The reason why hitman and tomb raider were heavily debated was the sexualisation of the violence not the violence itself. If the nuns had attacked in full appropriate combat gear then I wouldn't have a problem with that sequence. As it is they chose to dress them in bondage gear to titillate guys

They have no clue as to the issue at hand.

If they gave a choice to play as a female Kratos. Now that would be equality.

No that would be stupid. Not every game needs customizable protagonists. And besides you could extend that to getting I play as a Kratos of any race.

Like I said earlier in the thread it's not the greatest idea but it's a better response than 'Lets not hit girls'. The point, they are missing it.

 

[Auesis]

The very notion that you have to put a different standard against females is sexism in itself.

If people actually cared about gender equality, they wouldn't care who gets brutalised at all. People are people.

 

[cynicalsaint1]

/headdesk

Really, people?
This is your response?

I mean don't get me wrong this come across as kind of silly and pointless given what a murdering bastard Kratos is in general. But really? People are getting this hacked off by being told that they won't be able to brutally murder women in a video game?

Who. Fucking. Cares!?
I mean are you sliding your God of War discs into licking your lips in anticipation of getting to use a defenseless woman as a door jam here?

I mean its not like Kratos has even had a damn character arc where his brutal-rage-violence actually meant something important to the story since the first game anyways.

Hell if it means Kratos gets some form of character development beyond "Me Kratos, me maim anything that look at me funny" then this could actually be a good thing.

I love it when something crosses someone's personal line of what's too brutal for fiction they jus accuse everyone else of being sickos. Get some perspective please.

Anyway I care because it's out of character and it's just useless gender role BS. Even from the first game Kratos had no qualms about killing defenseless people for his needs in the past. See the sea captain in the 1st game.

Wow. Way to completely miss my point.
First at no point have I ever said anything about Kratos ever crossing any kind of "personal line" I might have, so I'll thank you to stop putting words into my mouth.

Secondly "Out of character" my ass. Kratos has been "Out of character" since the GoW2. At the end of the first game Kratos finally realizes that his rage and violent tendencies has only brought him misery and dispair - so much does this realization pain him that he attempts to kill himself only to be made the new god of war, much to his chagrin.

So what happens in the second game? He immediately goes back to being a violent murdering bastard for no particular reason, and then - after repeated warnings - is thrown down by Zeus, and proceeds to spend the rest of the series on a giant murder-tantrum over it. Basically turning him from an actual character with some amount of depth to a petulant child who throws a fit whenever daddy tells him no.

Why aren't you whining about how "Out of character" that is? Why are you suddenly expecting them to respect his supposed characterization when haven't ever done so in the first place?

I mean shit if him suddenly growing some morals actually works into his story arc for the game it will already be 10x more thought about Kratos as a character than he's been given since the first game. If it doesn't work into the story it'll just be another pointless change to his characterization, which is just business as usual.

Either way the change isn't going to impact the gameplay, and at worst the story/characterization of Kratos is just going to be as poorly executed as it has since David Jaffe left the series. Again what's there to be upset about? Unless you're just looking for a reason to be pissed off, a whole lot of nothing.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

This.

(Although it's not exactly fair to expect the God of War team to understand concepts like nuance or context.)

Right because god of war has never tried to have decent stories. You ever play the first game?

Emphasis on "tried." If I wanted a dark/violent/gritty version of Greek mythology, I'd read one of the epics.

Those games do have context though it's not hastily written. And you can drop the flamebait

Let's put it this way - I've read a few takes on Greek mythology that I thought dialogued with the source material in an interesting way. God of Am I Edgy Yet Guise is not on that level.

Ok you can stop with the flamebait and the stupid hipster "hey guys I'm insulting a game everyone likes, and implying it's fans are immature, aren't I edgy and hip?" routine. I wonder why you're even on this thread.

I wonder though are all games with a lot of brutality fake edgy in your eyes or do you have something more substantive?

God of War is particularly silly because it's an attempt to make a dark/mature/gritty version of greek mythology the that ends up being less dark/gritty/mature than, for instance, the Iliad. It's the video game equivalent of a Hot Topic shirt.

 

[Dfskelleton]

God of Political Correctness: Ascension

 

[1337mokro]

Seriously? Your games have treated women like sex puppets sitting on beds waiting for men to bonk em.

Please don't tell me that suddenly you're all up for feminism. Because that's the wrong way to go. Long as you don't sexualize the violence against women, which until now you haven't done (you have used women for nothing but sex), it's all right.

I looked up the 'door stopper' sequences mentioned in the main article, and an old critical miss. The gameplay leading up to it involves, apart from hacking and slashing your way through monsters, roughly pushing and pulling a topless woman around the level. (the gameplay seemed to give several closeups of her chest so the guys could totally ogle her naked tits if they wished to) So, yeah, she was pretty much sexualised as a weak, frightened and naked woman being manhandled by a powerful, burly guy, and is 'used' in a clearly fatal manner.

I forgot about that scene, to be honest I forgot about most of what happened in 3. I stand corrected. Stop sexualizing the women you brutalize dear developers.

To be honest though GoW is basically the least mature game I can imagine so them drawing the line after 3 games of misogyny is kinda weird. You'd think they'd go the Saints Row way of more insane to pander to their demographic.

Well enjoy women used purely for sex then, guess they aren't far enough in their mental development to step away from that.

 

[Creatural]

Wow, this was the wrong way to go to try and address any potential sexism. I really don't want to play a game where my gender is being treated differently in such a way to suggest that we're delicate flowers, can't fight, or shouldn't be fought. It's an unintentional message, but it's still there and very irritating. If my gender has to be treated differently it should be done as a story arc to point out how bad sexism like that is, not because it's supposedly better because it's not.

And no, I don't care about any arguments about BUT WOMEN ARE WEAKER I have gotten into fights with big burly guys and won and I didn't have to use strength to take them down and I know other women have too. On top of that there are very strong women out there and I don't see why Kratos couldn't run into them too.

Also, yeah, the way you have a character be violent against women, if it's different in that the violence committed against men, can be sexist. But, if it's the same and neither the women or men your character is fighting are changed in terms of how they're sexualized or something then it's fine.

Just treat your characters in the same way, please. I come to games to escape the real world and I can't really do that if I see the same bull ideas there that I do everywhere else.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

If you've seen the trailer for GoW: Ascension you'll notice that Kratos pushes a guy out of the line of danger. So I doubt his "gentle" disposition will only be directed toward women. And don't forget that Kratos spent the entirety of God of War 1 not killing everyone he met.

I think this is just a PR spin rather then Kratos genuinely becoming a male focused killer only. I'm sure there'll be plenty of gorgons and harpies to slice in half.

Please don't. I'm enjoying all the angry middle class young men hammering on their keyboards about how sexist this is.

 

[frizzlebyte]

God of Political Correctness: Ascension

Epic pic, right there, son. Proud on ya!

 

[Treblaine]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

It's pretty ridiculous. The reason why hitman and tomb raider were heavily debated was the sexualisation of the violence not the violence itself. If the nuns had attacked in full appropriate combat gear then I wouldn't have a problem with that sequence. As it is they chose to dress them in bondage gear to titillate guys

They have no clue as to the issue at hand.

If they gave a choice to play as a female Kratos. Now that would be equality.

Would female Kratos also be topless?

I'd imagine she would wear something that made her look powerful like Kratos... who isn't sexualised at all.

Spoiler: Like this

As good as such a character design is, the current wave of conservative feminism that is in vogue (example being Anita Sarkeesian and $160'000 of agreement) will never accept such as design. Although this "Kratan" (my best attempt at Greek feminisation) wears more clothing than Kratos, she wears less than Lara Croft that conservatives under the guise of feminism have consistently poured bile on the idea of her wearing clothing even as conservative as that.

And then there is the size of this Rule-63-Kratos' breasts, therefore she is an "unattainable ideal" that is an unforgivable affront against women, according to feminist-conservatives of course. Oh before you ask, no, Kratos' or Duke Nukem's amazing musculature and Solid Snake's tight ass cheeks don't count as an "unattainable ideal" because... err... well, don't DARE challenge feminists or else you are a hateful troll. The thing is these conservatives claiming to be feminists is they act like women are disproportionately suggestible in a negative way when exposed to an idealised form.

This conveniently ignores all the obese males in the western world who no doubt have also been raised exposed to the Schwarzenegger or Duke Nukem physique and unable to achieve that impossible physical standard give up completely. But no one, I say NO ONE, is saying body builders should be banned from professional wrestling for setting an "unattainable ideal" body type.

Face it, the only character that conservatives complaining under the banner of "feminism" (like Anita Sarkeesian) will be happy with is a woman in a body covering orange jumpsuit who you never actually see and never hear anything from. Quite, invisible, without an opinion. As Anita Sarkeesian has made clear.

And then of course there is the Sarkeesian brand of so-called-feminism that abhors all direct violence, especially ANY involving women, this Kratan must not only cover up but never kill anyone or be at risk of being killed.

I am all for a female to take on a role like Kratos but have no illusions it will please the current wave of conservative feminism as long as Anita Sarkeesian's view on women are held in such high regard.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Oh, god damn it. In other words "We've decided to use sexism to fight sexism".

Really, it's more "we can't understand nuance, so we're going to scale back on all types of (X) because we don't understand why people objected to (X) in (product Y) and (Product Z)."

It's pretty ridiculous. The reason why hitman and tomb raider were heavily debated was the sexualisation of the violence not the violence itself. If the nuns had attacked in full appropriate combat gear then I wouldn't have a problem with that sequence. As it is they chose to dress them in bondage gear to titillate guys

They have no clue as to the issue at hand.

If they gave a choice to play as a female Kratos. Now that would be equality.

Would female Kratos also be topless?

I'd imagine she would wear something that made her look powerful like Kratos... who isn't sexualised at all.

Spoiler: Like this

As good as such a character design is, the current wave of conservative feminism that is in vogue (example being Anita Sarkeesian and $160'000 of agreement) will never accept such as design. Although this "Kratan" (my best attempt at Greek feminisation) wears more clothing than Kratos, she wears less than Lara Croft that conservatives under the guise of feminism have consistently poured bile on the idea of her wearing clothing even as conservative as that.

And then there is the size of this Rule-63-Kratos' breasts, therefore she is an "unattainable ideal" that is an unforgivable affront against women, according to feminist-conservatives of course. Oh before you ask, no, Kratos' or Duke Nukem's amazing musculature and Solid Snake's tight ass cheeks don't count as an "unattainable ideal" because... err... well, don't DARE challenge feminists or else you are a hateful troll. The thing is these conservatives claiming to be feminists is they act like women are disproportionately suggestible in a negative way when exposed to an idealised form.

This conveniently ignores all the obese males in the western world who no doubt have also been raised exposed to the Schwarzenegger or Duke Nukem physique and unable to achieve that impossible physical standard give up completely. But no one, I say NO ONE, is saying body builders should be banned from professional wrestling for setting an "unattainable ideal" body type.

Face it, the only character that conservatives complaining under the banner of "feminism" (like Anita Sarkeesian) will be happy with is a woman in a body covering orange jumpsuit who you never actually see and never hear anything from. Quite, invisible, without an opinion. As Anita Sarkeesian has made clear.

And then of course there is the Sarkeesian brand of so-called-feminism that abhors all direct violence, especially ANY involving women, this Kratan must not only cover up but never kill anyone or be at risk of being killed.

I am all for a female to take on a role like Kratos but have no illusions it will please the current wave of conservative feminism as long as Anita Sarkeesian's view on women are held in such high regard.

Sexualisation isn't the same as power fantasy.

Like I said I would have no problem with a female topless Kratos a long as she wasn't posed in a boobs and butt pose 24/7 and she was as fearsome as her male counterpart. Physical appearance almost isn't the issue it's how that appearance comes across.

Feminists like Sarkeesian aren't complaining about clothes they are complaining about the way a character is presented. An oversexualised male fantasy or a simpering damsel in distress.

Look at my comic book example earlier on in this thread. Surely you can see the difference.

I really think you are misrepresenting Sarkeesians views there too. Violence against women isn't the issue. It's when the women who are being attacked are sexualised, like the sexy nuns, that is the problem.

The God of War devs have missed the point.

Furthermore...

Unattainable ideal isn't the issue at all

It seems you have this twisted view of what these feminists are saying ie: We can't ever look like that so we don't like it. That is NOT what anyone is saying.