Goddamnit Bioware

[Hyper-space]

Finally someone else who feels the same way I do about Bioware's most recent ventures. I remain silent however as I do not wish to be lynched by the community.

Protip: 99% of the forum agrees with you, i do not know what forum you have been traversing, but it sure as hell ain't the Escapist.

Thane was a whining lizard monkey. Legion was in the game for all of fuck all time so his character had no opportunity to develop. Tali completely transformed in to a serious case of 'pigtails' compared to Mass Effect 1, and Wrex was in the game for even less time than Legion, it was a goddamn cameo. So yeah, it was disappointing.

How was Thane a whining lizard monkey? he is one of the most humble people in the game and has a really great loyalty mission. In case you did not play it, its basically this: he is dying and wishes to make peace with his son, who is understandably pissed about him leaving to avenge the death of his mother. It was actually emotional and a great mission.

Also, Wrex? having him develop as a character (instead of being the same guy, doing the same thing as before) and becoming the leader of his clan was a logical step for him.

 

[Trolldor]

I don't give a flying fuck about what they've done with the inventory or the combat. I couldn't care less how "streamlined" they want to make it.
The reason I've no interest in getting Mass Effect 3 is that the last two games they've released have dissappointed me story-wise. Their characters have been dull. The designs have been stagnant.
Bioware is a company renowned for the character of its games, for all those elements that make an atmosphere. That is what made those games great. People still talk about the original Baldur's Gate games, and it has little to nothing to do with the gameplay. People still talk about those games because of the world, because of your interaction with it. Because you can steal a man's golden pantaloons in Baldur's Gate 1 and combine it with two different pairs of Pantaloons (bronze and silver respectively) in Baldur's Gate 2 to create one of the best armors in the game. It's an oddity you're rewarded for sticking with. You can invest in characters and develop romances that trigger based on the time you spend with one another, not how far in the plot you are. Every town has a story, has a life.
Bioware's focus on gameplay over story have seen their products suffer where they matter and have always mattered the most.


Also, fuck those James Cameron elves in DA2. Seriously. Fuck those pointy, plate-faced fluff sniffers. I doubt they could have fucked up Elf design any more than they did.

cool story bro.

I think Bioware has done a fine job of creating an interesting world in Mass Effect and I'm excited to see how it plays out. I like the characters and the character design.

Fail use is fail.

The meme only applies to recounts of events, not expressed opinions.

 

[Lord_Kristof]

http://gza.gameriot.com/content/images/orig_320200_1_1257581825.png
You're welcome.

In my eyes, Bioware has done nothing on the story-side and character-side but copy and paste (and occasionally build on) the first KOTOR. Sorry.

I enjoyed Mass Effect, but it's "Wow, the most awesome cRPG ever" factor was completely lost on me. Enjoyable? Yes. Good? Yes. Groundbreaking? No.

You know what game was groundbreaking in the genre, in terms of story and mechanics both? The Witcher. You know what? The game hasn't sold very well.

I can just shrug at this point, because I know from several such conversations that Bioware has some of the most fanatical supporters ever. Seriously, take a 100 hardcore football fans and a 100 Bioware fans and I'm not sure which group is more zealous.

 

[Trolldor]

Finally someone else who feels the same way I do about Bioware's most recent ventures. I remain silent however as I do not wish to be lynched by the community.

Protip: 99% of the forum agrees with you, i do not know what forum you have been traversing, but it sure as hell ain't the Escapist.

Thane was a whining lizard monkey. Legion was in the game for all of fuck all time so his character had no opportunity to develop. Tali completely transformed in to a serious case of 'pigtails' compared to Mass Effect 1, and Wrex was in the game for even less time than Legion, it was a goddamn cameo. So yeah, it was disappointing.

How was Thane a whining lizard monkey? he is one of the most humble people in the game and has a really great loyalty mission. In case you did not play it, its basically this: he is dying and wishes to make peace with his son, who is understandably pissed about him leaving to avenge the death of his mother. It was actually emotional and a great mission.

Also, Wrex? having him develop as a character (instead of being the same guy, doing the same thing as before) and becoming the leader of his clan was a logical step for him.

He didn't develop. You ended Mass Effect 1, rocked up in Mass Effect 2, talked to Wrex for a few minutes and left again. Not enough time for development.

Also, thane = whining lizard monkey.

"Oh my wife was so amazing I feel so guilty" *insert seizure/flashback*

 

[Trolldor]

HAHAHAHA, I continue to laugh at how people went from

"OMG Bioware iz best RPG maker in world!! Have my babies Bioware!" up until the minute before Dragon Age 2 launched,

to "OMG, Bioware is disgusting filthy, worthless shit that hasn't released a good game in 7 years!!! Must make Hate thread!" 2 hours after it launched.

Oh internet, you crowd of fickle-minded hypocritical fuck-tards, you....X3

Read OP and get back to me.

 

[Fightgarr]

How dare that game company keep making games that make it money. How dare it not listen to the prattling of nostalgic, self-entitled fans with no idea how hard it is to make a game.

 

[Kahunaburger]

snip

Well, what specifically did you like less about, say, the ME2 story compared to previous Bioware titles?

It'd be a giant fucking list that at 2:00 am I don't have time for now that I've finally finished collecting data on charities aided by celebrity endorsements.

So I'll try and do it succinctly but properly:

ME2 failed because it stacked the game with one-dimensional characters.
Bioware does predictable characters, but it gives them interaction and depth.
ME2 failed to establish this because each character was a 'one-issue' pony. So one-issue were they that it was pretty much the only thing you could talk to them about outside of "What do you think of the current mission?"
Even the original Mass Effect, which introduced the character wheel, gave you the ability to talk about 'useless trivia'. To ask them questions about their lives that were unrelated to the story or even their character. They had depth because they had a 'life' beyond the gameworld.
The most interesting characters in the franchise - Wrex and Legion - were shuffled off in to tiny corners. You caught glimpses of them. Legion was so badly placed that if you didn't play the game "properly" you wouldn't be able to do his character mission without suffering during the final mission, but if you didn't do it then he could die.

As for DA2, I think images are all I need:
snip

Isabella on the left. Sensibly dressed in armor.

snip
Isabella dressed in a potato sack. Also, dyed her hair and got a serious tan somewhere.

Don't get me started on the Qunari.

It was all the problems Mass Effect 2 had compounded with some seriously retarded Art Design that took Dragon Age away from 'high fantasy' and in to 'final fantasy' complete with fan service.

I think the ME2 criticisms you make are fair. IMHO some of the best characterization is for Zaeed and Kasumi (and arguably Joker) - the little sound bytes do a lot more to humanize them than a stack of dialogue trees would.

The thing that excuses the "one issue" thing to me is that the one issue for each character is handled well. The loyalty missions are a very effective storytelling mechanism for a character-driven squad game, and add a lot of gameplay variety. I'd argue that even with the "one-issue" problem, ME2 tells better stories than Jade Empire or even Dragon Age: Origins by sticking to consistent mini-themes within the loyalty missions. (Although Dragon Age: Origins gets major points for actually having interaction, however limited, between characters.)

 

[Nfritzappa]

Where is this crazy idea coming from that they're taking out stats from ME3!?!?

Christina Norman clearly stated herself that:
"I was misrepresented in an article recently, which made it sound like I wanted to remove RPG elements and stats from combat. What I actually said was, I wanted RPG progression to have a more meaningful impact on combat, but that was misrepresented as "cutting rpg stats" we actually have more stats in me3 that affect combat, and the overall impact of rpg progress on combat is greater."


Idiots.

 

[AbsoluteVirtue18]

It's amazing how every little annoyance warrants it's own thread.

"Oh god, I'm so tired of all the ponies!"

"Bioware's actually attempting to have enjoyable gameplay? HOW DARE THEY!"

"Jimquisition needs to get off the Escapist solely because I don't like him!"

"I'm angry about another person's post in a different thread!"

"Day-One DLC? Valve has ruined everything FOREVER!"

I swear....

OT: If you're so damned upset, don't play Bioware's games.

 

[DRSH1989]

Mass Effect 2 is great!
Put up or shut up!

Please don't hurt me *runs away*.

 

[linkvegeta]

i was mad at bioware too until i looked into it more and found out that its all EA's fault. EA rushes them with ridiculous deadlines.

 

[sgtshock]

While I disagree with the OP that Bioware's storytelling is lacking (at least for ME2, I never played DA2), I respect that he's actually complaining about something that matters. I'm tired of people complaining that the new Mass Effect games are ruined forever because they dumbed down the inventory or because they're making combat based on skill and fun rather than dice rolls.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I can agree with that.

ME2 had too many party members, and the depth of their character suffered because of it. Though I still liked most of them... except for Jack and Jacob ofcourse. But DA2 had it even worse since all the characters there were bland and forgettable.

The real problem I have with both these games is that I never feel like I'm actually crafting my own story, I'm simply following someone else's story and deciding whether to react happy or mad to whatever's happening on a predetermined path.

 

[theultimateend]

Finally someone else who feels the same way I do about Bioware's most recent ventures. I remain silent however as I do not wish to be lynched by the community.

... Are you in the same Escapist as I am?

Yes, I'm pretty sure I'm in the Escapist that has a lot of Bioware fans...

Nah those are just people that call themselves fans so they can put themselves in the victim role and act all wronged and betrayed.

It's funny because it is a really popular debate tool here haha.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Wow, you can almost smell the hyperbole inducing nostalgia...

As epic story and environments go you can't get much better than the fate of the entire freaking Galaxy, with nigh on a hundred different planets per game to explore out there.

'The characters have been dull' I'm sorry? Was Tali dull? Was Legion, Thane, Wrex? Did you bother having conversations with any of these characters?

'The designs have been stagnant' ... WHAT?

I'm not completely unreasonable, I acknowledge that whether Bioware stories have deteriorated slightly over the years is a matter of opinion. But to dismiss them as complete rubbish, especially when compared to what most other game companies consider satisfactory, is ludicrous exaggeration. Also, a game (specifically an RPG) without decent gameplay is a movie, and not a particularly good movie either.

Fully 100% agree. I absolutely love the Mass Effect series story line and its characters. My favorite story and characters out of any game series.
I'm not sure if I'm more excited for ME3 or Skyrim.

 

[70R4N]

People who say that the "story" in latest Bioware games is awesome probably don't know what a good story actually is. That beeing said, Bioware still makes better stories than most developers today. I mostly agree with the OP, but SOME of the characters are actually good. Not all of them are stereotypes.
DA2 elves sucked, in fact DA2 sucked balls.
Anyway Bioware writes the same story over and over again with minor differences, and now that they had something interesting with DA2 the f**k it up. WTF?

Oh, and this:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3872-bioware/

And I will still buy Mass Effect 3.