Goddamnit Bioware

[the D0rk One]

Bioware seems to 've lost the last shreds of "gamer soul" it once had. They focus on "catering to everyone" and manage to make games most people dislike.

They remind me of the proverbial "butter spread on too much bread" or the (regular) "hooker filling in for her triple-cunted friend".

ME1 was OK, DA:O sucked imho, but it still had an air of future potential, but as soon as they launched the next "digits"...

Makes one wonder if the games' industry isn't really run by a Dark Council of Damaged Chimps...

 

[LordRoyal]

Bioware seems to 've lost the last shreds of "gamer soul" it once had. They focus on "catering to everyone" and manage to make games most people dislike.

They remind me of the proverbial "butter spread on too much bread" or the (regular) "hooker filling in for her triple-cunted friend".

ME1 was OK, DA:O sucked imho, but it still had an air of future potential, but as soon as they launched the next "digits"...

While Cosby once said "I don't know what the key to success is but the key to failure is trying to please everyone" It's a lot safer for a video game company to try and please everyone. Mass Effect 2 was trying to appeal to more action oriented fans with removing a lot of the awkwardness in gameplay for instance. Did it remove a lot of the rpg fans? Yes. But it pleased a grand majority of the remaining ones.

Plus they do have to evolve after all. They can't just keep repackaging Neverwinter Nights and expect to survive off of that. If anything, what Mass Effect has proved is that action oriented RPGs are worth selling. If that is the case, then that's the direction they're going and I don't fault them for it.

With regards to your reaction to Dragon Age Origins, I don't know why exactly you didn't like it. If your making the same argument that Bioware has supposedly "lost it's gamer soul" then you also have to make the argument Dragon Age Origins was a throwback to their classic RPGs. It did play a great deal like a lot of older RPGs, which a very noticeable bit of modernization.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Seriously though, obviously I missed something because I thought:Garrus, Tali and

Are some of the best characters that bioware have come up with to date... and I will disagree with the elves from DA2. I think they look better as "James Cameron" Elves... much better.

Spoiler: Seriously

This

looks way better than this

I'm only a third way done with Dragon Age 2 and.....I dunno about Merrill. Her Bizarre and broken Irish accent seems quite out of place to me. I'm not sure why but it's snapped me out of the "moment" quite a few times....

And I totally agree with the new elven design. Atleast the elves are distinctive now....

I'll assume that you genuinely might be unaware of this but her accent isn't broken Irish, it's Welsh. The Elves from nearly everything are based on Tolkien's depiction which is based on Welsh/Irish celtic. So yeah the Dalish elves are depicted as either Welsh or Irish.

 

[ThisIsSnake]

Also, fuck those James Cameron elves in DA2. Seriously. Fuck those pointy, plate-faced fluff sniffers. I doubt they could have fucked up Elf design any more than they did.

Wow thats alot of F-bombs... I see why the username

Personally I liked the Elf redesigns, it made them look less human which I think was the point

I don't see how anyone has a problem with them =\

Origins the races were Human, short human, human with pointy ears and tall human
In 2 we get Human, Short Human, tatooed sometimes veiny pointy ears humans and 8 foot tall grey people with horns and awesome voices.

 

[the D0rk One]

While Cosby once said "I don't know what the key to success is but the key to failure is trying to please everyone" It's a lot safer for a video game company to try and please everyone. Mass Effect 2 was trying to appeal to more action oriented fans with removing a lot of the awkwardness in gameplay for instance. Did it remove a lot of the rpg fans? Yes. But it pleased a grand majority of the remaining ones.

Plus they do have to evolve after all. They can't just keep repackaging Neverwinter Nights and expect to survive off of that. If anything, what Mass Effect has proved is that action oriented RPGs are worth selling. If that is the case, then that's the direction they're going and I don't fault them for it.

With regards to your reaction to Dragon Age Origins, I don't know why exactly you didn't like it. If your making the same argument that Bioware has supposedly "lost it's gamer soul" then you also have to make the argument Dragon Age Origins was a throwback to their classic RPGs. It did play a great deal like a lot of older RPGs, which a very noticeable bit of modernization.

ME2 removed a lot of the rpg fans, and most of the fans were rpg fans. It's like trying to please a minority of your fans while disregarding the majority.

I regard evolution as a building process, adding to what you already have, and not amputating.

DA:O seemed unfinished, and no amount of DLCs fixed that. It had potential for greatness, but in the end it was just mediocre.

I don't think it's in a game company's interest to try and please everyone, at least not in the same game. Make a "true" RPG for rpg fans and make a hack' n' slash for action fans. Hell, you could even set them in the same universe. How about DA:O for the first demographic and "Dragon Age: Legion of the Dead" for the second? Dunno if it would work, as it might be confusing for some, but seems better than a game with "something for everyone".

A good company should have an identity, and bio seems to've lost it.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

Seriously though, obviously I missed something because I thought:Garrus, Tali and

Are some of the best characters that bioware have come up with to date... and I will disagree with the elves from DA2. I think they look better as "James Cameron" Elves... much better.

Spoiler: Seriously

This

looks way better than this

I'm only a third way done with Dragon Age 2 and.....I dunno about Merrill. Her Bizarre and broken Irish accent seems quite out of place to me. I'm not sure why but it's snapped me out of the "moment" quite a few times....

And I totally agree with the new elven design. Atleast the elves are distinctive now....

I'll assume that you genuinely might be unaware of this but her accent isn't broken Irish, it's Welsh. The Elves from nearly everything are based on Tolkien's depiction which is based on Welsh/Irish celtic. So yeah the Dalish elves are depicted as either Welsh or Irish.

My apologies. Never met anyone from Wales before. A cousin of mine speaks with a good-as-native Scottish accent though, since she grew up there.

Regardless, it's still a little weird to me because her accent doesn't feel very consistent. Sometimes she'll speak "normally" (as in without an accent) for the whole sentence but accentuate ONE word, and that catches me off guard. Also, I'm pretty sure she appears in DA:O in the Dalish Origin and she didn't speak like that there, so yeah...

And while I'm forced to take your word on Tolkien's depiction of elves as Irish, I WILL say that they felt nothing LIKE the Irish in all the movies and the bit of the first volume I have read.

 

[Zhukov]

Eh. If you say so.

All I can say is that Bioware continues it's proud tradition of consistently rocking my socks.

 

[GoddyofAus]

All I'm seeing here is Bioware falling into the same category as Valve.

*Announce something drastically different*

"FUCK YOU BIOWARE!"

*Play the game and it turns out fantastic*

"WE LOVE YOU BIOWARE!"

"MAKE LOVE TO ME BIOWARE, PLEASE!"

 

[Azaraxzealot]

I don't give a flying fuck about what they've done with the inventory or the combat. I couldn't care less how "streamlined" they want to make it.
The reason I've no interest in getting Mass Effect 3 is that the last two games they've released have dissappointed me story-wise. Their characters have been dull. The designs have been stagnant.
Bioware is a company renowned for the character of its games, for all those elements that make an atmosphere. That is what made those games great. People still talk about the original Baldur's Gate games, and it has little to nothing to do with the gameplay. People still talk about those games because of the world, because of your interaction with it. Because you can steal a man's golden pantaloons in Baldur's Gate 1 and combine it with two different pairs of Pantaloons (bronze and silver respectively) in Baldur's Gate 2 to create one of the best armors in the game. It's an oddity you're rewarded for sticking with. You can invest in characters and develop romances that trigger based on the time you spend with one another, not how far in the plot you are. Every town has a story, has a life.
Bioware's focus on gameplay over story have seen their products suffer where they matter and have always mattered the most.


Also, fuck those James Cameron elves in DA2. Seriously. Fuck those pointy, plate-faced fluff sniffers. I doubt they could have fucked up Elf design any more than they did.

i think this falls under "slander" in the new rules.

but anyways. i value good gameplay over a story any day, because your story could be on par with citizen kane, but if the gameplay does nothing but consist of bad controls, godawful camera, and a lack of checkpoints, then what's the point of playing it? i could watch that stuff on youtube.

Eh. If you say so.

All I can say is that Bioware continues it's proud tradition of consistently rocking my socks.

well said. and totally agreed.

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

ME2 removed a lot of the rpg fans, and most of the fans were rpg fans. It's like trying to please a minority of your fans while disregarding the majority.

I regard evolution as a building process, adding to what you already have, and not amputating.

DA:O seemed unfinished, and no amount of DLCs fixed that. It had potential for greatness, but in the end it was just mediocre.

I don't think it's in a game company's interest to try and please everyone, at least not in the same game. Make a "true" RPG for rpg fans and make a hack' n' slash for action fans. Hell, you could even set them in the same universe. How about DA:O for the first demographic and "Dragon Age: Legion of the Dead" for the second? Dunno if it would work, as it might be confusing for some, but seems better than a game with "something for everyone".

A good company should have an identity, and bio seems to've lost it.

I didn't quite see ME2 removing anyone.To be honest it was such a welcome change since Borderlands has more RPG elements than ME1.Infact even after being a long time Bioware fan I didn't play it until I finished ME2 twice.

DA:O was finished I even beat it a few times.Lulz.

To evolve you also need to either reimagine the old or cut it off and replace it.Bioware has always had a knack for story telling.The games had atmosphere and depth.What they usually lacked was gameplay.They know they can deliver a good(well decent in DA2's case) storyline so why not work on gameplay.ME1 was thought out as an RPG with shooter elements.In ME2 they achieved what they wanted with ME1.DA:O was thought out as a classic RPG that's been translated to modern gaming.DA2 was how they wanted it to evolve because DA:O was quite franky broken in Combat.You always go the same routes with building and you have to have some respect function to be with the characters you want and still play a challenging game.If I didn't want Alistar that meant I couldn't play on NM difficulty because I'd have to roll a tanking warrior.It was just limiting and combat boiled down to the same.It was the same old problem in RPGs - bad combat and great storyline.I thought we're trying to evolve.

This post was a tad longer than I wanted...

 

[the D0rk One]

I didn't quite see ME2 removing anyone.To be honest it was such a welcome change since Borderlands has more RPG elements than ME1.Infact even after being a long time Bioware fan I didn't play it until I finished ME2 twice.

DA:O was finished I even beat it a few times.Lulz.

To evolve you also need to either reimagine the old or cut it off and replace it.Bioware has always had a knack for story telling.The games had atmosphere and depth.What they usually lacked was gameplay.They know they can deliver a good(well decent in DA2's case) storyline so why not work on gameplay.ME1 was thought out as an RPG with shooter elements.In ME2 they achieved what they wanted with ME1.DA:O was thought out as a classic RPG that's been translated to modern gaming.DA2 was how they wanted it to evolve because DA:O was quite franky broken in Combat.You always go the same routes with building and you have to have some respect function to be with the characters you want and still play a challenging game.If I didn't want Alistar that meant I couldn't play on NM difficulty because I'd have to roll a tanking warrior.It was just limiting and combat boiled down to the same.It was the same old problem in RPGs - bad combat and great storyline.I thought we're trying to evolve.

This post was a tad longer than I wanted...

ME2 removed me

DA:O feels unfinished because... it is.

OK, before you go for fire and/or acid, I'm not trolling (this time), but there 're unfinished quests and story branches in Origins. That's what I meant when I said it feels unfinished.

Now for the iffy bit... the evolution:

how's removing fun features evolution? Sometimes old features are indeed outdated and downright frustrating, but they also enrich the experience.
The combat in rpgs is the real fun for some gamers. Your numbers vs. their numbers, the order in which you activate/use your special abilities, etc.

And now that you mention it, yeah, DA:O had a lame char building system. Your Alistair problem could 've been avoided through a more flexible char build.

But in the end I guess it's good for Bioware they've such loyal and indulging fans...

 

[demotion1]

Mass Effect 2 was an awesome game and imo better than Mass Effect 1. Dragon Age 2 was not up to Bioware standards(still good though). Yes we should worry about the direction but i do not see the reason to panic just yet.

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

ME2 removed me

DA:O feels unfinished because... it is.

OK, before you go for fire and/or acid, I'm not trolling (this time), but there 're unfinished quests and story branches in Origins. That's what I meant when I said it feels unfinished.

Now for the iffy bit... the evolution:

how's removing fun features evolution? Sometimes old features are indeed outdated and downright frustrating, but they also enrich the experience.
The combat in rpgs is the real fun for some gamers. Your numbers vs. their numbers, the order in which you activate/use your special abilities, etc.

And now that you mention it, yeah, DA:O had a lame char building system. Your Alistair problem could 've been avoided through a more flexible char build.

But in the end I guess it's good for Bioware they've such loyal and indulging fans...

The large ammount of frustration with those outdated features and the enjoyment of it comes more from nostalgia.But you play old games for nostalgia.If today's RPGs were like that we'd have no reason to replay the old ones and revisit them.No?

In truth my Alistair problem was removed by modding my game to have a respec potion like in Awakening.Admitedly I only use it once at the start so I can go any route I like.I shouldn't have to need it though.

I was actually trolling about the unfinished bit.It had a very finite feel when I tried it...It just wasn't exceptionally good at all until I passed my first Origin.

 

[the D0rk One]

The large ammount of frustration with those outdated features and the enjoyment of it comes more from nostalgia.But you play old games for nostalgia.If today's RPGs were like that we'd have no reason to replay the old ones and revisit them.No?

I don't know if it's just the nostalgia... I like many "old" concepts because they enrich the overall experience.

Health meters and a limited number of lives made me explore every bit of land...

Needing a high level healer to raise my dead comrades made me pick my fights and strategy much more carefully...

Certain deaths which couldn't be undone (dismemberment, incineration, being petrified or frozen and then broken in pieces before the healer could react) made the combat and strategy much more meaningful.

The same happened whenever I couldn't get through a fight with my whole party alive and I had to travel back to the nearest city with a temple, and it was 2 weeks away (luckily my dead friends didn't rot on the way )

Also, having a huge world to explore and the ability to enter any person's home and rob them blind was truly fun for me (not to mention it allowed me to pimp my party with full plates early on).

Sorry, this turns into a rant.

Now for some DA:O "redeeming": it allowed nice spell combos... and... uh... Got nothing else for now. Oh and you could make Zev your lithe, supple lil' *****, which is kinda fun in it's own way.

Maybe I live in the land of make-belief, but what if they tried to provide all of those things in one game? Do you honestly think it would 've made it a worse game?

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

The large ammount of frustration with those outdated features and the enjoyment of it comes more from nostalgia.But you play old games for nostalgia.If today's RPGs were like that we'd have no reason to replay the old ones and revisit them.No?

I don't know if it's just the nostalgia... I like many "old" concepts because they enrich the overall experience.

Health meters and a limited number of lives made me explore every bit of land...

Needing a high level healer to raise my dead comrades made me pick my fights and strategy much more carefully...

Certain deaths which couldn't be undone (dismemberment, incineration, being petrified or frozen and then broken in pieces before the healer could react) made the combat and strategy much more meaningful.

The same happened whenever I couldn't get through a fight with my whole party alive and I had to travel back to the nearest city with a temple, and it was 2 weeks away (luckily my dead friends didn't rot on the way )

Also, having a huge world to explore and the ability to enter any person's home and rob them blind was truly fun for me (not to mention it allowed me to pimp my party with full plates early on).

Sorry, this turns into a rant.

Now for some DA:O "redeeming": it allowed nice spell combos... and... uh... Got nothing else for now. Oh and you could make Zev your lithe, supple lil' *****, which is kinda fun in it's own way.

Maybe I live in the land of make-belief, but what if they tried to provide all of those things in one game? Do you honestly think it would 've made it a worse game?

Let's be honest most of those features just made you reload more often .

The most redeeming feature of DA:O was the notch of nostalgia.It carried that and still delivered a decent story and some decision making.And the spell combos which were interesting in how fast they killed people .

Edit:About the house robbing,yeah it's awesome I totally do that...Until it renders money completely useless in the second part.

Also I never knew how to revive fallen comrades so I kept reloading until it happened right...God BG1 was such a pain.

 

[the D0rk One]

Let's be honest most of those features just made you reload more often .

The most redeeming feature of DA:O was the notch of nostalgia.It carried that and still delivered a decent story and some decision making.And the spell combos which were interesting in how fast they killed people .

Edit:About the house robbing,yeah it's awesome I totally do that...Until it renders money completely useless in the second part.

Also I never knew how to revive fallen comrades so I kept reloading until it happened right...God BG1 was such a pain.

I don't get this fear of loading... the fuck is this, "Fear of Loading in Video Games" ? )
When you get to a point where it either quickload or ragequit, you're doing it wrong. If the realization that even you, the Mighty Player, are wrong sometimes is to be avoided while making a game... then I don't get the point of playing games. Even Bejeweled can be lost...

Nostalgia should never be a redeeming quality. It's a cheap cash-in, over-relying on fond memories

The money issue is debatable imo. Running an efficient party required constant purchase of ammo and supplies, and if you relied only on what loot enemies dropped you ended up shooting regular arrows at Iron Golems... not to mention the huge sum you had to raise in order to progress the main quest (I think there was a way around this, but I don't remember it now).

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

I don't get this fear of loading... the fuck is this, "Fear of Loading in Video Games" ? )
When you get to a point where it either quickload or ragequit, you're doing it wrong. If the realization that even you, the Mighty Player, are wrong sometimes is to be avoided while making a game... then I don't get the point of playing games. Even Bejeweled can be lost...

Nostalgia should never be a redeeming quality. It's a cheap cash-in, over-relying on fond memories

The money issue is debatable imo. Running an efficient party required constant purchase of ammo and supplies, and if you relied only on what loot enemies dropped you ended up shooting regular arrows at Iron Golems... not to mention the huge sum you had to raise in order to progress the main quest (I think there was a way around this, but I don't remember it now).

Fear of reloading?What?The whole reloading bit wasn't really that much a tactical choice.It was that your string of events broke somewhere so you had to do it all over again.Remember Garkahn.Think there really was a way to bypass the money I can't remember though...

 

[the D0rk One]

[
The whole reloading bit wasn't really that much a tactical choice.It was that your string of events broke somewhere so you had to do it all over again.

What do you mean?

I agree with the string of events breaking, but that's the gameplay. Don't the player's gameplay choices cause this? Doesn't this mean the player is not good enough to cause those events to run in the "correct" order?

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

Yeah but it's not skill.It's knowing how to build a successful party.It's no real gameplay it's like making a multisim program - you set all your details put their specs in and turn it off to see how it will work.If something is out of place you just change variables.While I enjoyed doing it it wasn't really playing.

 

[Trolldor]

I didn't think a "They changed it now it sucks" thread would get 5 pages of simple arguing about trivialities.

What, you're surprised?

Oh, wait, you haven't been here that long.

You'll get used to it.
People attacked me personally because of my opinion on Bioware.
Welcome to "The Escapist".