Monster post time. I'm going to post some counter-arguments, although I really just want to rant about some awesome games, so I don't know if all of them have been mentioned yet.
Banjo Tooie is much, much better than its predecessor, yet very few people tend to remember it. The level design is incredible and huge (the game is literally about three or four times the size of the original), the challenges are much more interesting, varied and difficult, the humour is a lot more prevalent and intelligent, and the game really forges out its own storyline and universe, whereas the original relied a lot on its storybook charm to get by. The graphics are also some of the best if not the best on the Nintendo 64. Easily in the top ten best games of all time, and horribly, terribly under-appreciated by so-called platforming "fans".
Another game that does not get the credit it deserves is another Rare title,
Donkey Kong 64. Yes, it is lame, and yes, the DK Rap is annoying, but is it ever an awesome title. As a transition game between the two
Banjos, it essentially takes the best from the first
Banjo and expands upon it, with bigger and more interesting levels, multiple characters with diverse move sets and play styles, and a literal fuck-ton of stuff to collect in every world - five hundred regular bananas, dozens of coins, five blueprints, two Banana Fairies, and twenty-five Gold Bananas. Yeah, if you like collecting stuff and getting 100% completion, this is your dream game. It definitely lacks some of the finesse of both of the
Banjo titles, and doesn't have as clever writing or presentation, but it speaks with its gameplay, and its gameplay says "awesome". Bonus points for some really, really memorable worlds despite relying on all the tired platforming cliches.
Oh, and did I mention that
Super Mario Sunshine is better than
Super Mario 64? Yeah, it is. A lot of people might cry blasphemy, but it is quite possibly the hardest 3D platform game ever made, and also one of the longest. It has an amazing number of secrets, a huge number of levels, and even though it is in some respects more linear, it opens up later on just fine. The only reason nobody likes this is really that it doesn't take place in the Mushroom Kingdom, which is understandable, as the setting does get a bit monotonous... but of course, first you complain about cliched fire worlds and ice worlds and now you want them back when they're gone. Flip-floppers. What really makes this one stand out, though, is F.L.U.D.D. - what is a character with one of the most annoying voices ever is also one of the best new gameplay mechanics introduced into a platform game. The abilities it brings, like hovering and rocket-boosting, open up a massive number of options, including ridiculously vertical platform challenges.
SeniorDingDong said:
Zelda - Wink Waker and the "Oracle of" games. Maybe "good" but not as outstanding as their previous games.
Metroid Prime 2 - its not that lousy, but no match to MP1. Really disliked that level design and adventure focused gameplay.
On
The Wind Waker - I agree, not better than
Ocarina and
Majora, but still an amazing game that was unfortunately marred by a slightly rushed development (they had to cut out two dungeons as a result of getting the game out in time by the release date). At least its beautiful presentation still stands strong. The
Oracle games, however, are triumphs of handheld gaming and some of the best titles in the series - certainly the best 2D
Zelda games.
Seasons is awesome, but
Ages is the one that really takes the cake, with some of the absolutely most twisted and difficult puzzles I have ever, ever seen in any game, period. If you can beat that one without a walkthrough, you deserve some serious praise, because it will skullfuck you.
You're complaining about "too much" exploration and adventure in
Metroid Prime 2? Are you even playing the game for the right reasons?
Metroid Prime is an amazing game and its sequels don't match it (possibly because it's just
Super Metroid 3D, and that game is such a solid foundation to build on that anything else is superfluous), but I find that
Metroid Prime 2 is one of the most satisfyingly challenging and best games in the series (and its generation) from a design perspective. Dark Aether does kind of suck, especially early on, but I got over it and so should you.
HardRockSamurai said:
Then along came the sequel Painkiller: Overdose. While I was expecting a fine-tuned, next-generation replica of the original game, what I got instead was.....THE ORIGINAL GAME. Other than a new jackass character and plot, no improvements, or changes for that matter, had been made. It still retained the fast-paced gameplay I have come to love, but I really was expecting more from it.
That's because the "sequel" is actually an officially-endorsed mod of the original game. The guys who made it have nothing to do with the original developer, People Can Fly, and now they've been bought out by Epic, so if anyone does another
Painkiller, I doubt it'll be them...
elricik said:
Knights of the old republic, and then knights of the old republic 2. KOTOR2 wasn't a horrible game, but nothing could have lived up to the first one.
So very, very wrong.
The Sith Lords beats the living shit out of the first game.
Knights of the Old Republic is good, but it's as tired and cliched as possible. It invokes every single BioWare and Lucas trope and merges them together into one of the most predictable, yawn-worthy storylines ever. The characters, planets, etc. are actually quite memorable, but they are some of the most once-sided and bland ones I've ever seen in a role-playing game. The game is fun to play, but incredibly easy, and there is very little in the way of actual strategy to any of the combat - just click attack over and over and watch the enemies fall.
The Sith Lords is lacking a bit in polish, and I admit that the end of the game definitely feels a little bit rushed (though not nearly as bad as some people make it out to be - there's just one or two side-plots that don't get fully resolved). However, it has some of the best dialogue in any game I have ever played, as well as the best character in Kreia, who is one of the most awesomely manipulative, scheming, and yet likable people I have ever known. At any given moment you feel like she could be both an enemy, friend, observer, and has a thousand plots to take you and everyone else down, yet you rely on her and lover her for the advice she dispenses. Furthermore,
The Sith Lords is quite possibly the only part of the Expanded Universe (or maybe even the entire
Star Wars canon) to actually take itself seriously. The Force becomes a metaphor and subject of philosophical debate, and questions about the natures of good and evil as well as redemption and the value of life and existence are subtly introduced into nearly every important dialogue. From the writer of
Planescape: Torment I would expect no less, but really, it beats the crap out of the original game in every respect when it comes to storyline and writing, even if it lacks the major twist of the first game. Oh, and did I mention that
The Sith Lords is also a much deeper game, with more side-quests, much more balanced difficulty and character customisation, a better weapon upgrading and creation system, more use for skills like Security and Persuade, etc.?
The only reason, the
only reason everyone things that the first
Knights of the Old Republic is better than the second is because a) it is a nostalgia trip and movie fan service, and b) because it is made by BioWare, and people have a tendency to worship BioWare on name alone (not that they don't deserve a lot of this praise).
In fact, that nostalgia is basically why most people consider sequels to be inferior. You may have played the first game more and are that much more familiar with it, but generally, unless the sequel is passed off to a bunch of incompetents or put under a strict budget, the sequel will always blow away the original. The reason of this should be obvious: the original title was essentially a training ground for practicing the design elements of the first title. With an engine, gameplay style, storyline and universe, etc. planted firmly, as well as all the easy, first-comes-to-mind elements already established, designers have a lot more time and a lot more compulsion to really stretch themselves. This is most obviously seen in
Gears of War 2, I think. I really dislike the first game in a lot of ways (but can appreciate the design decisions made), but I'm excited for the sequel despite having not played it yet, simply because now they've been given the opportunity to go wild with their imaginations. I'm tired of all this "the first one was better" crap - get your heads out of your asses and take off your rose-tinted glasses. This is supposed to be a forum for "real" and "intelligent" gamers, but all I see is a bunch of reminiscing rather than any critical analysis of what makes a good game - design.
