Hacking/BOTTING on MMOs is morally superior over hacking FPS etc

[Aeonknight]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Main problem with his point:

You get into a game with a hacker in a FPS game, you leave the game and find a different one.

You get a botter/RMT/hacker on an MMO server, you're stuck with them for a long time.

That is true but your speaking from greed rather then them affecting you, is that botter 1 shooting you every time you spawn? nop the only aspect is that this person is saving his own time while your killing your 9000th boar even though your not enjoying it, overall

Would you get annoyed if i cheated to get to the last level in a single player game? no you wouldn't the only reason your bashing on botters is that your greedy and want people to suffer through the game because you dont know how to get/make bots

Is that one botter still shooting you in the head long after you've left the game?
Nope.

Can a group of botters destroy the game balance such as gear acquisition and in game economy in an MMO?
Yup.

Does that 1 head shot FPS hacker inconvenience thousdands of players at a time? Not unless he logs some serious time... but realistically, no.

meanwhile in MMO land, groups of hackers/botters can literally destroy the game from within.


And you're telling me that cheating in an MMO, which is cheating against other players on a much larger scale is less of a transgression as cheating in an 8v8 match?

If nothing else, the sheer difference in numbers say you're wrong.

 

[DeathStreamer]

MMOs are mostly about numbers yes. But its all about how you use those numbers. Games always have, and always will be about numbers, no matter the genre. It's all about how you use these numbers to your advantage, which generally decides how skillful you are. The numbers (in an FPS) I am referring to are things like weapon damage, ROF, mobility,how fast you can reload, accuracy, things like that. And then also how well YOU can aim, and how well you can best interpret the retaliation for a situation. MMOs use a very similar, if not the same number system. These numbers are just more complex and more abundant. Will this spell do much damage? Is the element right for the monster? In an MMO, if u bot/hack your way to the highest level, you don't immediately win. Have you learnt anything? Do you actually know how to play the game? (use your spells/skills, devise strategies for a boss or raid etc). It's the same with an FPS, you can claim no entitlement to your skill because there is none to be proven. All hacking/botting says is that you can't be bothered, or you just aren't skilled, much or at all.

Edit: Hacking/botting is the same wherever you go, no matter who it affects or how. There is no real moral difference between what game you are hacking/botting or how you are doing so. You have still employed an unfair tactic to do something for you.

 

[veloper]

No, shooting is the game in a FPS, while grinding is only the filler part of a MMOG and not the reason why people want to stick with the game (high level raids with online friends).
That's the difference.

The last couple of FPS games I've played have more aspects to them than just shooting. Either way, you're skipping a boring part of the game. Your aimbot is allowing you to skip the tedious process of actually getting good at the game. Your grindbot is skipping the tedious process of getting your character to the end of the game. While the steps are different, the outcome is the same. Both players suck at their respective game because they skipped the step that allowed them to learn the game mechanics and how to actually play the game.

You cannot seriously suggest that shooting is the boring part of the FPS, when it's actually the main test of skill.
Grinding is different. While it may let a slow learner come to grips with a game, most of the time it doesn't refine any skill and grinding may even reinforce bad play habits.
A player who doesn't take aim, really sucks, while a player who skips most of the grinding may still know how to pull his weight in a raid, which is what it's all about.

 

[Nazulu]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

No, there is no point.

If you don't enjoy grinding, then you quest. If there is nothing but grinding, then play another MMO. Find friends to play with you, it's meant to be a multiplayer experience.

Botting in what you call the boring parts is still cheating, it's unfair for those who enjoy the experience and I believe if you bot from the beginning, you never really cared what anyone else thinks in the first place.

Also, there are quite a few who do it to farm and it can change how much things cost in the whole server, usually making things more expensive.

 

[Brother-Link]

First off cheating is wrong with multiplayer games, there are rules there to make things balanced for everyone. It's a matter of if you're not enjoying yourself, don't play, don't fool yourself and make a bot to do the playing for you. Robots don't have fun.

 

[Ellen of Kitten]

I don't believe botting and "morals" live on the same playing field. I play a game where the economy is very good, but the one thing the screws up the economy is bots that resource mine, sell to people buying, and resource mine again. It plays hell with the economy globally, and makes prices inflate.

Think about any MMO you played new. Like within the first 3 months of its initial deployment. When you made your first million/gold piece/large value money, you felt pretty good, right?? That loot you bartered to a player for double its shop value? Really great! Now fast forward two years. That same loot is either worthless to other players except fresh newbies. And even then the going value to buyers is something 5 to 10 times its shop value. People of a comparable level to previous are making large transactions the likes early devs would have gawked at. When your first gold piece was unimagined riches, now you're poor with even twenty gold pieces.

Bots screw with economies, and they ruin the financial sector of the game. That said, I don't enjoy mining my days away.

 

[Billska]

There's a special place in hell for hackers/botters as well as people who talk in the theater.
There is no justification for hacking or botting, it just shows how pathetic your life is.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Your attempts to justify your stance on gaming make me laugh deeply a heartily. Cheating is wrong and you're trying to convince me that one is less wrong then the other. The only argument that you can make is that cheating in an MMO can affect something you're not doing. If he's cheating to grind, whatever you're not affect you can go elsewhere. If its a direct competition, as it always is in FPS and sometimes is in MMO, then cheating is cheating either way and is wrong.

You see if i cheated on COD and got all unlock from the start and own you in a match, tell me is it that i beat you because i cheated the game or rather did i beat you because the game is unbalanced and depends on numbers over effort of the player?

numbers over efforts of players defines MMORPGs, which are a part of MMOs. Your logic fails because it applies to both equally when you make the argument it applies differently to them. Not to mention that cheating is not as bad not because it there is some intrinsic not as bad quality to it but because the game is broken which is entirely separate and not part of the bad or goodness of cheating.

 

[veloper]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

No, there is no point.

If you don't enjoy grinding, then you quest. If there is nothing but grinding, then play another MMO. Find friends to play with you, it's meant to be a multiplayer experience.

Botting in what you call the boring parts is still cheating, it's unfair for those who enjoy the experience and I believe if you bot from the beginning, you never really cared what anyone else thinks in the first place.

Also, there are quite a few who do it to farm and it can change how much things cost in the whole server, usually making things more expensive.

Multiplayer exactly. Your friends may not always be online the same time as you, but you may still want to keep up with them.
Little need to experience the bits in between the raids.

As for farming with bots or just farming yourself, inflation continues either way, but atleast the botter isn't wasting his own time.

 

[DeathStreamer]

Now another perspective I must bring to light is this:
There will always be a lack of enjoyment when you hack (unless the delusion of being somehow better for not doing the work yourself fills your mind). When you overcome a problem, your body releases endorphins, whcih make you feel happy and/or rewarded. If you play the game properly, you gain skill (to a point, said point differing between individuals). The fact you have overcome the problem on your own makes you feel happy or rewarded. If you just hack and bot your way through it, you have done nothing yourself, and have done nothing worthy of reward or happiness. This takes the enjoyment out of the game. If you don't like the game, dont play it. Simple.

 

[ionveau]

There's a special place in hell for hackers/botters as well as people who talk in the theater.
There is no justification for hacking or botting, it just shows how pathetic your life is.

Yes im pathetic with 70000 gold in my bank
Your the best person in the world You have 70000 gold in the bank

You may not be pathetic but i didnt waste 3 weeks of my life farming that, dont forget we are not here forever enjoy your life you only live once

 

[DeathStreamer]

There's a special place in hell for hackers/botters as well as people who talk in the theater.
There is no justification for hacking or botting, it just shows how pathetic your life is.

Yes im pathetic with 70000 gold in my bank
Your the best person in the world You have 70000 gold in the bank

You may not be pathetic but i didnt waste 3 weeks of my life farming that, dont forget we are not here forever enjoy your life you only live once

Now I must quote something here, very plainly:
We spend our whole lives trying to stop death. Eating, Inventing, Loving, Praying, Fighting,
Killing. But what do we really know about death? Just that nobody comes back. But there comes a
point in life - a moment - when your mind outlives it's desires, it's obsessions, when your habits
survive your dreams, and then your losses... Maybe Death is a gift... You wonder...

The main reason for this quote is to say:
YOU KNOW JACK SHIT ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH BOY
Whether you live once or twice, or forever, you don't fucking know. But say we did only live once, then I agree. But don't you dare ever assume you know something when you don't. Or i will personally come find you and give you a royal *****-slap.

 

[veloper]

Ah! comedy.

 

[Sikratua]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Main problem with his point:

You get into a game with a hacker in a FPS game, you leave the game and find a different one.

You get a botter/RMT/hacker on an MMO server, you're stuck with them for a long time.

That is true but your speaking from greed rather then them affecting you, is that botter 1 shooting you every time you spawn? nop the only aspect is that this person is saving his own time while your killing your 9000th boar even though your not enjoying it, overall

Would you get annoyed if i cheated to get to the last level in a single player game? no you wouldn't the only reason your bashing on botters is that your greedy and want people to suffer through the game because you dont know how to get/make bots

Are you seriously trying to claim that somehow a round of Black Ops will have more people in it than a World of Warcraft server? Because, that really is what it sounds like.

"Getting past the tedious parts." That's the justification used by people who bot in MMO games. Bluntly, the long hours of earning your way through things... Yeah, that's the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of MMO gaming. It's meant to be slow. It's meant to take a while. And, it's meant to have a sense of accomplishment when you finally hit that goal you set for yourself.

But, here's the really funny part. To the best of my knowledge, there's not a bot program in existance for a mainstream MMO that can bot a person from 1-max level. Hell, there's aren't bots sophisticated enough to actually level anything in most of them. The overwhelming majority of the bots in existance are designed SOLELY to walk around a small area for long periods of time, and farm items for money. They are almost uniformly used to screw people over.

As I'm writing this, there's a quote from veloper....

"As for farming with bots or just farming yourself, inflation continues either way, but atleast the botter isn't wasting his own time."

The key words here are "wasting his own time." As I've said to more people than I can count, the most important letter in "MMORPG" is the "G." Any MMO is a game, before it's anything else. If actually playing the game is a "waste of time," exactly what the fuck are you doing playing it, in the first place?

MMOs are designed to take a long ass time. It takes a while to do almost anything, to be blunt. If it was fast, subscriptions just wouldn't happen, because the game would be completed to fast. If you honestly feel a need to bot in an MMO, because it's "too slow," or whatever other bullshit excuse you're going to use, seriously, just go to another genre. This one isn't for you. It really is just that simple.

 

[TilMorrow]

Well it ruins the experience though doesn't it? I mean setting up a bot to level up and grind your character by killing npcs over and over is pretty pointless. Why would you buy/download the game in the first place if all you were going to do is wait until your character is at the highest level? What would you get out of it? The answer absolutely nothing. Also it is unfair to other players especially if it is done on a RP server. And if you use a bot to gather resources, refine them and everything that's equally bad. There's no difference in hacking in mmos, FPSs or any other game style. Hacking is always ruining someone's experience or fun.

 

[Littlee300]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Not really. Aimbots give allow you to skip the boring parts of FPS games, such as learning how not to suck. Hacking/Botting is the same no matter how you look at it. You're lessening your own experience with the game. If you're not going to play, why bother starting it up?

Aim bot taks away the main point of a FPS with botting you can go to one of the PVP parts of an MMO skipping the boring PVE.

One of the points of botting may be to play the fun, late game, parts.

It is also like having a robot do your job for you. Everyone will hate in you in envy.

 

[drunken_munki]

False dichotomy. I think cheating on multi-player games is bad either way IMO. I mean, I used to cheat on very difficult single player games. But it's different when you play with others. Cheating another human is very different to cheating a computer.

I think I understand the OP though. Cheating to collect gold is less of a direct impact than AIMboting the shit out of everyone on DeDust2. However there is still an impact.

In any case, a game with multiple players required very delicate balancing and tweaking. Cheating fucks the whole thing up for either game. For me, that is what killed diablo/diablo 2. They didn't combat the cheaters and the game got ruined. In the logic of the OP, the cheating would have had no effect... but in reality people got plain sick of it. It's not that 1 player cheats that will cause any real problem. But when many do (and you don't do anything about it), game = down the pan.

 

[ionveau]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Main problem with his point:

You get into a game with a hacker in a FPS game, you leave the game and find a different one.

You get a botter/RMT/hacker on an MMO server, you're stuck with them for a long time.

That is true but your speaking from greed rather then them affecting you, is that botter 1 shooting you every time you spawn? nop the only aspect is that this person is saving his own time while your killing your 9000th boar even though your not enjoying it, overall

Would you get annoyed if i cheated to get to the last level in a single player game? no you wouldn't the only reason your bashing on botters is that your greedy and want people to suffer through the game because you dont know how to get/make bots

Are you seriously trying to claim that somehow a round of Black Ops will have more people in it than a World of Warcraft server? Because, that really is what it sounds like.

"Getting past the tedious parts." That's the justification used by people who bot in MMO games. Bluntly, the long hours of earning your way through things... Yeah, that's the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of MMO gaming. It's meant to be slow. It's meant to take a while. And, it's meant to have a sense of accomplishment when you finally hit that goal you set for yourself.

But, here's the really funny part. To the best of my knowledge, there's not a bot program in existance for a mainstream MMO that can bot a person from 1-max level. Hell, there's aren't bots sophisticated enough to actually level anything in most of them. The overwhelming majority of the bots in existance are designed SOLELY to walk around a small area for long periods of time, and farm items for money. They are almost uniformly used to screw people over.

As I'm writing this, there's a quote from veloper....

"As for farming with bots or just farming yourself, inflation continues either way, but atleast the botter isn't wasting his own time."

The key words here are "wasting his own time." As I've said to more people than I can count, the most important letter in "MMORPG" is the "G." Any MMO is a game, before it's anything else. If actually playing the game is a "waste of time," exactly what the fuck are you doing playing it, in the first place?

MMOs are designed to take a long ass time. It takes a while to do almost anything, to be blunt. If it was fast, subscriptions just wouldn't happen, because the game would be completed to fast. If you honestly feel a need to bot in an MMO, because it's "too slow," or whatever other bullshit excuse you're going to use, seriously, just go to another genre. This one isn't for you. It really is just that simple.

Honor buddy will quest farm PvP etc on WoW it has a built in AI system rather then a simple auto script

 

[Bat Vader]

Why use bots in an MMO? If you are not going to play the game how it is supposed to be played than why play it at all? The better thing to do would be to save your money and instead buy a game that you will play. Plus, using bots is illegal.

 

[Aeonknight]

He's got a valid point.

Aimbots gives you an unfair advantage in a direct test of skill against fellow FPS players and is therfore clearly cheating, while grindbots basicly just let you skip the boring parts of the singleplayer experience within a MMOG.

Main problem with his point:

You get into a game with a hacker in a FPS game, you leave the game and find a different one.

You get a botter/RMT/hacker on an MMO server, you're stuck with them for a long time.

That is true but your speaking from greed rather then them affecting you, is that botter 1 shooting you every time you spawn? nop the only aspect is that this person is saving his own time while your killing your 9000th boar even though your not enjoying it, overall

Would you get annoyed if i cheated to get to the last level in a single player game? no you wouldn't the only reason your bashing on botters is that your greedy and want people to suffer through the game because you dont know how to get/make bots

Are you seriously trying to claim that somehow a round of Black Ops will have more people in it than a World of Warcraft server? Because, that really is what it sounds like.

"Getting past the tedious parts." That's the justification used by people who bot in MMO games. Bluntly, the long hours of earning your way through things... Yeah, that's the ENTIRE FUCKING POINT of MMO gaming. It's meant to be slow. It's meant to take a while. And, it's meant to have a sense of accomplishment when you finally hit that goal you set for yourself.

But, here's the really funny part. To the best of my knowledge, there's not a bot program in existance for a mainstream MMO that can bot a person from 1-max level. Hell, there's aren't bots sophisticated enough to actually level anything in most of them. The overwhelming majority of the bots in existance are designed SOLELY to walk around a small area for long periods of time, and farm items for money. They are almost uniformly used to screw people over.

As I'm writing this, there's a quote from veloper....

"As for farming with bots or just farming yourself, inflation continues either way, but atleast the botter isn't wasting his own time."

The key words here are "wasting his own time." As I've said to more people than I can count, the most important letter in "MMORPG" is the "G." Any MMO is a game, before it's anything else. If actually playing the game is a "waste of time," exactly what the fuck are you doing playing it, in the first place?

MMOs are designed to take a long ass time. It takes a while to do almost anything, to be blunt. If it was fast, subscriptions just wouldn't happen, because the game would be completed to fast. If you honestly feel a need to bot in an MMO, because it's "too slow," or whatever other bullshit excuse you're going to use, seriously, just go to another genre. This one isn't for you. It really is just that simple.

Honor buddy will quest farm PvP etc on WoW it has a built in AI system rather then a simple auto script

Until you've had to pay 30$ per round of Black Ops, you will never know just how bad botting in an MMO can be.