Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[BeerTent]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

[...]

[...]Freedom of speech and Rights to Property are very basic very important rights that shouldn't be stepped upon, especially for something as murky as this.

Freedom of speech only applies to the government, companies are allowed to censor you as much as they want within their service, it doesn't infringe on any rights.

As for the modded consoles, yes its not illegal to mod them but it is illegal to use the microsoft xbox live service with a modded console, that's why it gets banned. If they come to your house to take it from you then its illegal, if they ban you from their service for breaking the agreed upon terms of conditions that you fully well know, then that's your own damn fault and no one should have any sympathy for you.

I'm going to side against Dex on this one. While I agree that freedom of speech is important, and that nobody should censor your views, but I was told one time that while you may have freedom of speech, and your willing to fight for it, then you should also have the freedom, and willing to fight, to suffer the consequences of your speech. Furthermore, if these kids actually believe "***** should stay in the goddamn kitchen" among the other two examples I ain't fucking listing here, then something needs to be done. A good start is having to explain to Mommy why his Gold account was permanently banned.

Aside, this isn't the occasional case of hate speech we're talking here, this is constant vomitous harassment by over 80% of the community. There's a reason why sensible people wouldn't touch communities like these with a 300ft pole.

 

[Loonyyy]

Sounds good, hopefully other games follow suit. About time is all I can say.

 

[A Satanic Panda]

Debunked.

The problem with this is that by allowing them to continue, you're not helping anyone. You're just allowing that asshat to continue being an asshat to another individual and that not only affects the individual being called a **** or a slut, it also affects the image of the community as a whole. Its for that reason why a twelve year old shouting racist slurs has become the posterchild for most CoD players. So...ya....excuse the 343 studio team for wanting to keep the game friendly to all and, god forbid, free of assholes.

Everyone can mute and block people. You can't complain that you got harassed when there is a very straight forward way of stopping it. So what that they can go and be an asshat someone else. They can block him too.

As I said before, this leaves a negative mark on the community as a whole. So what if anyone can block him, by ignoring him, you just let him go on and bully other people and your game becomes known as another FPS full of whiny sexist/racist twelve year old. Allowing it to continue is both morally and logically wrong and I think 343 studios realizes that.

They fail to realize that they are in fact 12 year olds. Everyone is a bit... loony at that age. It's like punishing a puppy for peeing on the floor. They're still young. Do you remember being 12? We were all idiots back then

But the older crowd has no excuse other than being raised in a bad environment. And your right, that does reflect badly on us. But personally, I don't really care what people think of Xbox Live.

Well if they are 12 year olds running around Xbox live throwing racist, homophobic and sexist comments around, I'd be willing to bet that their parents aren't exactly keeping a very close eye on them and it's probably for the best that they get slapped with the perms-ban And you should punish a puppy what was young, so he'll learn.

And here's the thing, you don't care what people think of xbox live. We do. And personally I'm getting tired of it being "that place where pre-teens are constantly implying that you like penis" and I want that to change.

And no, I don't buy the whole "just mute them" argument, because I've done that to over a dozen people and there's always another one around the corner, really the only solution would be to block the communications of half the people on xbox live because this behavior has become so widely accepted. Someone needs to draw a line in the sand about what is acceptable, because some people are getting so turned off by this that they're not playing games at all or when they do, they don't use mikes to avoid the talking to jackasses. And as someone who has had to spend years living with a bratty, annoying and abusive sister, it really enrages me when people constantly tell me "oh just go into another room" when she's around. It's stupid and unfair. Why? Because I shouldn't have to go out of my way when I'm trying to relax to avoid taking crap from a complete jerk because no one wants to do anything to stop them. Same situation here. These people are breaking the XBL code of conduct, the thing that they agreed to follow when they made their account, exactly why shouldn't they be punished for that?

No I agree, they should be punished. But a permaban/zero-tolerance protocol is total overkill. There has to be a more just way in dealing with this.

 

[Andrewtheeviscerator]

Real people have racist and sexist attitudes they don't express in polite company. If you make X-box live polite company, they'll leave, your financial base will tank, and you'll have to go ruin something else.

uggghhhhh internet white knights.....I mean honestly, sexist teenagers don;t need you to "protect" them

It's true. People generally don't want their entertainment environment to be like their work environment. It's not comfortable. People will leave because of restrictive environments.

So other people should have to suffer just because you want to be able to yell out sexist slurs to any female that happens to be playing in the same game as you. The only environment that that behavior should be tolerated is in a personal area, if you have some sort of weird compulsion attack women just for being women than just yell it out without a mic on or something, but that kind of shit should not be tolerated anywhere publicly.

 

[Something Amyss]

I like this. Hopefully, it's more of a report basis, followed by investigation.

Plus, I kept reading her name as "Wolfkill" at first, and thought to myself, now that's a hardass name. Truly. I wish I had a name as hardcore as that.

Isn't her name Wolfkill? It looks more like the original post botched it a couple times, but it autocorrected me to Wolfkill when I googled her.

Now I want a name like Wolfkill, though.

Zachary Honeybadgerkill.

 

[Rainboq]

While it's a nice sentiment, I'm almost universally wary of measures this extreme. It can be abused. Don't like someone? Report them for sexist behavior. Unless they keep audio records of every match (which, forgive me if I'm wrong, sounds incredibly infeasible), it's your word against theirs. So either it's a ban on someone else's word or it doesn't do anything at all (with some middle ground, of course. But even something like multiple complaints needn't wouldn't be enough to stop anyone whose persistent and has a few friends).

They are required to keep logs of every game, it's a legal thing. I'd imagine they'd receive a report, investigate, and if they agree with the report, punish.

 

[sammysoso]

About time someone tried to clean up the trash on Xbox Live. Halo is probably the most effective way to do that, nice to see them stepping up.

Sayonara asswipes.

 

[Ryotknife]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

[...]

[...]Freedom of speech and Rights to Property are very basic very important rights that shouldn't be stepped upon, especially for something as murky as this.

Freedom of speech only applies to the government, companies are allowed to censor you as much as they want within their service, it doesn't infringe on any rights.

As for the modded consoles, yes its not illegal to mod them but it is illegal to use the microsoft xbox live service with a modded console, that's why it gets banned. If they come to your house to take it from you then its illegal, if they ban you from their service for breaking the agreed upon terms of conditions that you fully well know, then that's your own damn fault and no one should have any sympathy for you.

I'm going to side against Dex on this one. While I agree that freedom of speech is important, and that nobody should censor your views, but I was told one time that while you may have freedom of speech, and your willing to fight for it, then you should also have the freedom, and willing to fight, to suffer the consequences of your speech. Furthermore, if these kids actually believe "***** should stay in the goddamn kitchen" among the other two examples I ain't fucking listing here, then something needs to be done. A good start is having to explain to Mommy why his Gold account was permanently banned.

Aside, this isn't the occasional case of hate speech we're talking here, this is constant vomitous harassment by over 80% of the community. There's a reason why sensible people wouldn't touch communities like these with a 300ft pole.

it depends entirely on how far they go with it. "get back in the kitchen" is fine to ban.

if things like "rocket whore" or "camping *****" gets banned though, then they are going way too far. But in reality this is all just conjecture until the bans start going out.

If this is done in a reasonable fashion, this could benefit the community as a whole. Done irresponibily, it will do more harm than good. With society's and gaming industry track record as of late when it comes to solving problems in a rationale and reasonable matter...well lets just say it leaves something to be desired.

Still, I am interested in how this turns out.

 

[Bashfluff]

Real people have racist and sexist attitudes they don't express in polite company. If you make X-box live polite company, they'll leave, your financial base will tank, and you'll have to go ruin something else.

uggghhhhh internet white knights.....I mean honestly, sexist teenagers don;t need you to "protect" them

It's true. People generally don't want their entertainment environment to be like their work environment. It's not comfortable. People will leave because of restrictive environments.

So other people should have to suffer just because you want to be able to yell out sexist slurs to any female that happens to be playing in the same game as you. The only environment that that behavior should be tolerated is in a personal area, if you have some sort of weird compulsion attack women just for being women than just yell it out without a mic on or something, but that kind of shit should not be tolerated anywhere publicly.

I'm not fond of sexist slurs, but I know when I'm playing with my friends I call them fucking whores or dickheads. No, I wouldn't act like in public, just like I wouldn't behave like that at work. But I don't think that an online video game should have the same environment as that. It's like walking into a room of people playing an FPS and trashtalking each other and saying the same thing, or doing so in a bar. It's acceptable because the expected environment.

 

[Erttheking]

Debunked.

The problem with this is that by allowing them to continue, you're not helping anyone. You're just allowing that asshat to continue being an asshat to another individual and that not only affects the individual being called a **** or a slut, it also affects the image of the community as a whole. Its for that reason why a twelve year old shouting racist slurs has become the posterchild for most CoD players. So...ya....excuse the 343 studio team for wanting to keep the game friendly to all and, god forbid, free of assholes.

Everyone can mute and block people. You can't complain that you got harassed when there is a very straight forward way of stopping it. So what that they can go and be an asshat someone else. They can block him too.

As I said before, this leaves a negative mark on the community as a whole. So what if anyone can block him, by ignoring him, you just let him go on and bully other people and your game becomes known as another FPS full of whiny sexist/racist twelve year old. Allowing it to continue is both morally and logically wrong and I think 343 studios realizes that.

They fail to realize that they are in fact 12 year olds. Everyone is a bit... loony at that age. It's like punishing a puppy for peeing on the floor. They're still young. Do you remember being 12? We were all idiots back then

But the older crowd has no excuse other than being raised in a bad environment. And your right, that does reflect badly on us. But personally, I don't really care what people think of Xbox Live.

Well if they are 12 year olds running around Xbox live throwing racist, homophobic and sexist comments around, I'd be willing to bet that their parents aren't exactly keeping a very close eye on them and it's probably for the best that they get slapped with the perms-ban And you should punish a puppy what was young, so he'll learn.

And here's the thing, you don't care what people think of xbox live. We do. And personally I'm getting tired of it being "that place where pre-teens are constantly implying that you like penis" and I want that to change.

And no, I don't buy the whole "just mute them" argument, because I've done that to over a dozen people and there's always another one around the corner, really the only solution would be to block the communications of half the people on xbox live because this behavior has become so widely accepted. Someone needs to draw a line in the sand about what is acceptable, because some people are getting so turned off by this that they're not playing games at all or when they do, they don't use mikes to avoid the talking to jackasses. And as someone who has had to spend years living with a bratty, annoying and abusive sister, it really enrages me when people constantly tell me "oh just go into another room" when she's around. It's stupid and unfair. Why? Because I shouldn't have to go out of my way when I'm trying to relax to avoid taking crap from a complete jerk because no one wants to do anything to stop them. Same situation here. These people are breaking the XBL code of conduct, the thing that they agreed to follow when they made their account, exactly why shouldn't they be punished for that?

No I agree, they should be punished. But a permaban/zero-tolerance protocol is total overkill. There has to be a more just way in dealing with this.

There Is an argument to be had there, but I rather like the perma ban idea. This is a deep rooted problem, we're gonna need some heavy firepower to get rid of it.

 

[AuronFtw]

"When Microsoft created 343 Industries to take over Halo," Ross said, "I was given first choice to run the studio because I had proven myself. My gender played no part in it."

Er... doing what, exactly? I've never heard of that person before, so evidently she didn't prove herself very well. Was there any massive game-improving changes she inspired or was directly responsible for? Are there even any good games with her name on them?

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

I see two effects, either it has no actual effect and no one gets band, or the majority of Halo's playerbase get's the banhammer. Mostly because cussing people out has become so ingrained in the playerbase that if they do actually follow through with this it'll kill off a good chunk of their customers, which will only lead to bad things for 5 and 6.

You would be amazed at how quickly people will snap into line the instant there are rules (and punishments). Obviously there will be the deviants; the people who just don't give a shit and/or who think that if they "fight the man" that they might win (they won't). Over-all though, I don't see this leading to a mass banning; definitely not in the numbers that would require a term like "majority".

What this will hopefully lead to is people seeing how much of an impact a simple crime and punishment system can have on a community, and lead to more companies taking more stern actions against sexism/racism/etc. The gaming community is in dire need of some cleaning up, and I'm glad to see that someone is finally stepping up to do it.

 

[IceStar100]

Man my Generation is a bunch of wimps. For the love of the maker there is a mute button. I swear I'm starting to believe very few people have ever worked a real job. I've been a correctional officer and a security guard guess what I've been called horrible things. Stuff like this makes me want to save up for a PC. I swear I just can't believe people are this wimpy that a bunch of words upset them. Now I know Halo needs to die and do it soon. Because the way it's moving Halo 6 will be a game about Master Chief writing a strongly worded letter to the other side to please stop because guns might offend someone.

 

[Vault101]

Man my Generation is a bunch of wimps.

hahaha I know right?

"ohhhh why does "the man" want to take away my right to be a sexist twat...its not faaaaaaiiirrr WAAAAAHHHH"

 

[A Satanic Panda]

snip

No I agree, they should be punished. But a permaban/zero-tolerance protocol is total overkill. There has to be a more just way in dealing with this.

There Is an argument to be had there, but I rather like the perma ban idea. This is a deep rooted problem, we're gonna need some heavy firepower to get rid of it.

What happens when I get frustrated and call someone a whore and get banned? What happens when you get banned because a poor sport can't take losing and reports you for harassment? Have you heard about Microsoft's appeal system? It's practically non existent. And just the principle of it all. Are we so thin skinned that we need authority to punish people that say mean things to us, even when we are provided with options to mute and block them?

 

[TheAsterite]

snip

No I agree, they should be punished. But a permaban/zero-tolerance protocol is total overkill. There has to be a more just way in dealing with this.

There Is an argument to be had there, but I rather like the perma ban idea. This is a deep rooted problem, we're gonna need some heavy firepower to get rid of it.

What happens when I get frustrated and call someone a whore and get banned? What happens when you get banned because a poor sport can't take losing and reports you for harassment? Have you heard about Microsoft's appeal system? It's practically non existent. And just the principle of it all. Are we so thin skinned that we need authority to punish people that say mean things to us, even when we are provided with options to mute and block them?

Shouldn't have been saying those things in the first place, you deserved to get perma-banned.

 

[Awexsome]

Did you seriously just equate one person being sexist and an hurtful asshole to others to another person's race?! I would think people are sane enough to tell that being black isn't a reason to be kicked out but being a harassing sexist is.

I didn't equate anything. I made a comparison in order to explain my position. Look up the definition between the two if you need.

The problem is the comparison is completely invalid. Like utterly and completely different that it doesn't apply. Being black can't be compared with being a sexist asshole. One deserves punishment and the other deserves nothing on its own.

I refuse to accept that doing nothing is better than doing something to try and clean up the online community. Permamuting still does nothing to deter the asshole in the first place and gives them no reason to shape up when running into another girl. To a lot of those sexists and sometimes to the victim themselves the mute means the asshole's won and they can continue on to harassing the next person.

I didn't necessarily say nothing should be done, but I feel this is just too much of a BS way of going about it, not to mention the obvious as hell fact that this is just a PR move because it's a hot-button topic (despite it hardly being true).

A PR move can be made to do good. It surely benefits them in other ways besides cleaning up the community but good deeds are good deeds.

There will undoubtedly be some attempts at abuse of the system and likely some wrongful bans but that's a price we need to pay to clean this shit up. Fear of missing a step is no excuse to not go forward.

The logic behind this, in different scenario is:

20 criminals have 10 hostages in a bank. Just bomb the bank and shoot everyone just in case, so we can be sure we stopped the criminals.

Seriously? This is acceptable to you? Those hostages didn't do anything wrong. they just happened to be in the wrong place, wrong time, wrong people. But who cares, as long as the job gets done right?

Fuck that.

It's totally not acceptable, it's also entirely unrealistic. I have a feeling that you would believe that unjust bans happen far more often than they actually do. Going back to the PR issue you know what would be bad? Unjust permanent bans.

You are far too pessimistic of how often bans are unjustly earned. For every 100 bans earned there is probably one person who complains and of those that complain likely one of every thousand of those was innocent in the first place.

The slip ups are rare. Not one of every 3. Not one of every 30,000 probably.

 

[Erttheking]

snip

No I agree, they should be punished. But a permaban/zero-tolerance protocol is total overkill. There has to be a more just way in dealing with this.

There Is an argument to be had there, but I rather like the perma ban idea. This is a deep rooted problem, we're gonna need some heavy firepower to get rid of it.

What happens when I get frustrated and call someone a whore and get banned? What happens when you get banned because a poor sport can't take losing and reports you for harassment? Have you heard about Microsoft's appeal system? It's practically non existent. And just the principle of it all. Are we so thin skinned that we need authority to punish people that say mean things to us, even when we are provided with options to mute and block them?

First of all, if you can simple get banned from someone reporting you wrongfully, there wouldn't be anyone left on XBL, the banning system isn't that sensitive. In fact, you can actually get banned for abusing the report system. Also there's a difference between trash talking and harassing someone because of their gender/race/sexual preference. Somehow I don't think that a single comment will be seen as that.

I've already said why I don't take mute and block as enough, for every asshole I block there are ten more around the corner, and I am freaking tired of trying to get into a game of Halo only to have to deal with jackasses at every turn. It turns playing video games into a very unpleasant chore. Also the mute and block options are inadequate because they mean that you're already being harassed, and frankly I'd prefer it if the online didn't call to use them in the first place. Also, why the Hell should I scramble around flipping a bunch of different switches so that one guy can't continue to harass me because people don't feel like stopping him? What you want to do is make life less convenient for the victims, what I want to do is make it less convenient for the abuser.

And it's less people saying mean things and more people being constantly abusive around every corner to the point where you have to hide away in order to get away from it. No...no this situation can't just be ignored, it needs to be fixed.