Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

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conmag9

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Rainboq said:
conmag9 said:
While it's a nice sentiment, I'm almost universally wary of measures this extreme. It can be abused. Don't like someone? Report them for sexist behavior. Unless they keep audio records of every match (which, forgive me if I'm wrong, sounds incredibly infeasible), it's your word against theirs. So either it's a ban on someone else's word or it doesn't do anything at all (with some middle ground, of course. But even something like multiple complaints needn't wouldn't be enough to stop anyone whose persistent and has a few friends).
They are required to keep logs of every game, it's a legal thing. I'd imagine they'd receive a report, investigate, and if they agree with the report, punish.
Ah, thank you (although I am surprised, given the sheer amount of audio that would entail). My concern is lessened. Nonetheless, that would still be open to abuse (say, by a vindictive or hypersensative moderator). I suppose it would come down to whether it was a single instance or multiple confirmed reports. Preferably with warning and the ability to appeal. A single instance isn't really a good idea. Multiple ones could be done though.
 

A Satanic Panda

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erttheking said:
I think you're ignoring exactly how hostile XBL can be. As has been pointed out before, more than a few women on this thread flat out admitted that they didn't even want to go on because of how bad it is. This isn't an isolated incident of just one person telling one woman to get back into the kitchen, this is so widespread that it's actually become a stereotype for XBL, and who knows how many women are not playing online or not using mikes because of it. I don't except the excuse that some people are just "thin skinned" online networks need to have standards. The Escapist has standards, in this very thread, someone told Vault101 to stop being an ass and he got a warning for it. Are you saying that that shouldn't have happened? I'm not, because he violated the Escapist's code of conduct and he got punished for it. Code of conducts like that keep website's from descending into a cesspool. Just muting people doesn't cut it, because it's become so widespread you're going to have to stop to hit the mute button every five minutes, and it's indicative of a bigger problem. Stuff like this is against the Xbox Live code of conduct, this is not a new rule they are trying to enforce. Are their methods harsh? Yes. Do I believe that they are necessary and will get results? Yes.
You've clearly never actually been on Xbox live if you believe what this thread is telling you. I've heard how people talk to girls on Xbox. I've never heard anyone get singled out for being female ingame. But in fact they do get friend request all the time. Is that offensive?

in this very thread, someone told Vault101 to stop being an ass and he got a warning for it. Are you saying that that shouldn't have happened?
If this were XBL you're say he should be banned forever. "Zero-tolerance" goes a long way.
 

Erttheking

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A Satanic Panda said:
erttheking said:
I think you're ignoring exactly how hostile XBL can be. As has been pointed out before, more than a few women on this thread flat out admitted that they didn't even want to go on because of how bad it is. This isn't an isolated incident of just one person telling one woman to get back into the kitchen, this is so widespread that it's actually become a stereotype for XBL, and who knows how many women are not playing online or not using mikes because of it. I don't except the excuse that some people are just "thin skinned" online networks need to have standards. The Escapist has standards, in this very thread, someone told Vault101 to stop being an ass and he got a warning for it. Are you saying that that shouldn't have happened? I'm not, because he violated the Escapist's code of conduct and he got punished for it. Code of conducts like that keep website's from descending into a cesspool. Just muting people doesn't cut it, because it's become so widespread you're going to have to stop to hit the mute button every five minutes, and it's indicative of a bigger problem. Stuff like this is against the Xbox Live code of conduct, this is not a new rule they are trying to enforce. Are their methods harsh? Yes. Do I believe that they are necessary and will get results? Yes.
You've clearly never actually been on Xbox live if you believe what this thread is telling you. I've heard how people talk to girls on Xbox. I've never heard anyone get singled out for being female ingame. But in fact they do get friend request all the time. Is that offensive?

in this very thread, someone told Vault101 to stop being an ass and he got a warning for it. Are you saying that that shouldn't have happened?
If this were XBL you're say he should be banned forever. "Zero-tolerance" goes a long way.
I have been on XBL, quite a bit actually, and if I were to go on personal experience, I would also have to believe that no women play it at all and that the little kid rumor is greatly exaggerated, but then again a few youtube videos proves me wrong. The problem is real, we can't just ignore it because it isn't shoved under our nose.

Yes it does go a long way, but the thing is that the Escapist is a relatively civil place and XBL isn't. The problem is more deeply rooted in XBL and needs more serious countermeasures. Besides, the Escapist does use perma bans.
 

Smeatza

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GunsmithKitten said:
Smeatza said:
Don't worry guys, racism is still ok.

In all seriousness this is an obvious publicity play, "ooh look at us, were so modern and accepting, protecting the females playing our games."

Harassment towards anyone is unacceptable, and re-enforcing the stereotype that harassment towards a woman is worse than harassment towards a man, or someone of a different race is wrong.
Never minding that racial epithets and harassment earn the same punishment, eh?
Exactly, I'll bet if you read the terms of service it states that ALL harassment will be met with a ban.
So why make a press release stating that harassment towards women will serve you up a ban?
Because it fits in with the media narrative and will provide the maximum amount of free publicity.

I frown upon such exploitation of a sensitive topic.
 

A Satanic Panda

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erttheking said:
I have been on XBL, quite a bit actually, and if I were to go on personal experience, I would also have to believe that no women play it at all and that the little kid rumor is greatly exaggerated, but then again a few youtube videos proves me wrong. The problem is real, we can't just ignore it because it isn't shoved under our nose.

Yes it does go a long way, but the thing is that the Escapist is a relatively civil place and XBL isn't. The problem is more deeply rooted in ZBL and needs more serious countermeasures. Besides, the Escapist does use perma bans.
I talked to a female friend that goes on Xbox about this topic. She agrees that harassment should be punished somehow, but she said she has never been harassed for being a girl over XBL ever. Xbox does not need such heavy handed measures because it's not that bad to begin with.
 

Bashfluff

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WaitWHAT said:
12 pages. 12 pages of bile and hatred to a suggestion that we should come down on those who abuse others online. Wow. If any more proof were needed of an abuse problem in the gaming community, this would be it.
It's not hatred and bile. One does not suddenly become an abuser because they disagree with how to view the problem of abuse. I fall back on a previous example of a building filled with hostages and terrorists. You could just blow up the building and the terrorists are dead, right? But so are the hostages. The ends do NOT justify the means.

I argue that this is a strong case for sociopathic behavior on the part of people who are for this. It doesn't matter if innocents will be banned. It doesn't matter if simple trash talk will be met will a perma-ban. It doesn't matter if they're being harassed or made uncomfortable, it's all the same to more than a few posters in this thread.

Not caring how you solve a problem or what the consequences are...that's more worrying to me.
 

Erttheking

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A Satanic Panda said:
erttheking said:
I have been on XBL, quite a bit actually, and if I were to go on personal experience, I would also have to believe that no women play it at all and that the little kid rumor is greatly exaggerated, but then again a few youtube videos proves me wrong. The problem is real, we can't just ignore it because it isn't shoved under our nose.

Yes it does go a long way, but the thing is that the Escapist is a relatively civil place and XBL isn't. The problem is more deeply rooted in ZBL and needs more serious countermeasures. Besides, the Escapist does use perma bans.
I talked to a female friend that goes on Xbox about this topic. She agrees that harassment should be punished somehow, but she said she has never been harassed for being a girl over XBL ever. Xbox does not need such heavy handed measures because it's not that bad to begin with.
I kind of doubt that the people who have commented on this thread are lying. I have them as witnesses to how bad it can be out there, I trust this community for information like that.
 

A Satanic Panda

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erttheking said:
A Satanic Panda said:
erttheking said:
I have been on XBL, quite a bit actually, and if I were to go on personal experience, I would also have to believe that no women play it at all and that the little kid rumor is greatly exaggerated, but then again a few youtube videos proves me wrong. The problem is real, we can't just ignore it because it isn't shoved under our nose.

Yes it does go a long way, but the thing is that the Escapist is a relatively civil place and XBL isn't. The problem is more deeply rooted in ZBL and needs more serious countermeasures. Besides, the Escapist does use perma bans.
I talked to a female friend that goes on Xbox about this topic. She agrees that harassment should be punished somehow, but she said she has never been harassed for being a girl over XBL ever. Xbox does not need such heavy handed measures because it's not that bad to begin with.
I kind of doubt that the people who have commented on this thread are lying. I have them as witnesses to how bad it can be out there, I trust this community for information like that.
Conflicting information then. I trust my friend more than the thread.

But either way, if you ban everyone on Xbox that gets angry or that likes to talk shit to his friends, there would be no one left on XBL. In a competitive environment, this is far to strict on it.
 

Pinkamena

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Holy hell, this thread went further than I thought! I guess we just cant get enough of these topics, can we.
 

Erttheking

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A Satanic Panda said:
erttheking said:
A Satanic Panda said:
erttheking said:
I have been on XBL, quite a bit actually, and if I were to go on personal experience, I would also have to believe that no women play it at all and that the little kid rumor is greatly exaggerated, but then again a few youtube videos proves me wrong. The problem is real, we can't just ignore it because it isn't shoved under our nose.

Yes it does go a long way, but the thing is that the Escapist is a relatively civil place and XBL isn't. The problem is more deeply rooted in ZBL and needs more serious countermeasures. Besides, the Escapist does use perma bans.
I talked to a female friend that goes on Xbox about this topic. She agrees that harassment should be punished somehow, but she said she has never been harassed for being a girl over XBL ever. Xbox does not need such heavy handed measures because it's not that bad to begin with.
I kind of doubt that the people who have commented on this thread are lying. I have them as witnesses to how bad it can be out there, I trust this community for information like that.
Conflicting information then. I trust my friend more than the thread.

But either way, if you ban everyone on Xbox that gets angry or that likes to talk shit to his friends, there would be no one left on XBL. In a competitive environment, this is far to strict on it.
We're focusing on sexism and distrimatory comments, not trash talking.
 

Devil_Worshipper

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Really can't say where any of this silliness will lead, but this is just another reason not to buy the game. For better or worse, people should be able to say whatever they like. Especially in an artificial environment.
 
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ResonanceGames said:
Mikejames said:
In Search of Username said:
I don't like sexism either, but I hate the idea of banning people for being dicks. It seems unproductive to me, you're not changing anyone's attitude that way, you're just moving them elsewhere.
I.e. somewhere where they won't be a nuisance?

I appreciate the thought of there actually being consequence for excessive hate mongering.
No, clearly there will be no thought put into how any of this is handled, millions of innocent players will be banned, and anything and everything will be mistaken for bannable sexism, including long discussions about gender roles in child rearing.

Because if these things things aren't the case, then it would mean that all the whining against this is stupid and baseless, which doesn't fit the dialogue that the massively oppressed victims of this heinous policy want to have.
No, I just think being a sexist moron shouldn't prevent you from playing the game you have paid for. It's essentially an attempt to control people's expression of their opinions, and however stupid those opinions are, that's something I'm against.

The consequences for 'excessive hate mongering' should be everyone in the game with you thinking you're a stupid dick and either telling you so or just muting you. This policy is unnecessary.
 

ShirowShirow

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Devil_Worshipper said:
Really can't say where any of this silliness will lead, but this is just another reason not to buy the game. For better or worse, people should be able to say whatever they like. Especially in an artificial environment.
I don't understand how the fact that a place is digital that makes derogatory comments any less "Real". Hell, if anything it's worse since it's happening to you in the supposed comfort of your own home.

And no. Hateful people should not be allowed to say hateful things. Words hurt.
 

Devil_Worshipper

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ShirowShirow said:
Devil_Worshipper said:
Really can't say where any of this silliness will lead, but this is just another reason not to buy the game. For better or worse, people should be able to say whatever they like. Especially in an artificial environment.
I don't understand how the fact that a place is digital that makes derogatory comments any less "Real". Hell, if anything it's worse since it's happening to you in the supposed comfort of your own home.

And no. Hateful people should not be allowed to say hateful things. Words hurt.
Life is pain as they say. Adapt or die.
 

ShirowShirow

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Devil_Worshipper said:
ShirowShirow said:
Devil_Worshipper said:
Really can't say where any of this silliness will lead, but this is just another reason not to buy the game. For better or worse, people should be able to say whatever they like. Especially in an artificial environment.
I don't understand how the fact that a place is digital that makes derogatory comments any less "Real". Hell, if anything it's worse since it's happening to you in the supposed comfort of your own home.

And no. Hateful people should not be allowed to say hateful things. Words hurt.
Life is pain as they say. Adapt or die.
I'd rather make the sexist, racist and homophobic assholes adapt thank you very much. And you too for that matter.

Captcha: just dance. I hate that game.
 

SeanSeanston

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Haven't read all this topic but I'd just like to post some of my thoughts for those who might still care about this thread and whatnot... anyways...

1. I think it's pretty ****ing obvious to anyone that there is and has been for pretty much ever a major problem with online gaming and what happens when someone is found out to to be a woman. It's certainly one area where I would have to agree wholeheartedly that there is undeniable sexism and immense harassment almost universally and as shy and paranoid a person as I usually am, I imagine I would feel far far less comfortable playing games online if I were a woman and would almost certainly hide it for fear of the consequences. It must be a rather uncomfortable thing to do and make you a rather paranoid human being as a result by necessity.
Something should be done or something has to change, and I'm not either saying that it's ever or always a good idea to try and make things change by pure force where you maybe still have the problem just masked and swept under the carpet but surely in at least the kind of blatantly harassing cases, banhammers and whatnot are appropriate.

2. Let's not go mad either. There are fine lines here, and I only think such banhammers should be wielded when these things are clearly rather blatant, as mind you of course they often are. I don't think we should have some kind of blanket ban on arguments or negative comments towards people online. It's hard to know where to draw the line though and I think you have to allow some level of banter. Specifically targeting females online in a rather malicious way and clearly trying to make them feel out of place and singled-out should be a reasonably clear thing to discern however, I should think, but realistically I don't think erring on the side of caution is going to cause much harm either and giving people the benefit of the doubt rather than coming down on them like a sack of banhammers. We all know how blatant this kind of thing usually is when it does get going. I don't think there's much fear of this usual kind of online game genuine sexism occurring and staying under the radar by people (presumably rather young) doing it but restraining themselves.
Another thing then: while men can imagine what it might be like to be a female gamer, as you do say, they don't actually know what it's like. It would however, be worth remember, IMHO, that female gamers do not either know what it is like to be a male gamer and the discomforting ultra-caution that might be caused by something like this being implemented over-zealously. You're a female; you'll never need worry about being (mis)interpreted as sexist or that in such a situation you won't be able to explain yourself and be given the benefit of the doubt. A zero-tolerance one-strike policy could be madness if done improperly. Like people have said: is calling someone a ***** going to be sexism? Even when it is clearly not intended that way, or where anyone would reasonable give it the benefit of the doubt? Then what about calling someone a dick? There's no way, even if female equivalents were automatically deemed sexist, that would ever be deemed sexist.
These things need to be done thoughtfully and without as much knee-jerking as we can help. Online gaming, as anyone can see, is generally often a rather intimidating and hostile place for women in so many ways, but there's no need for one to get tunnel-vision either and lose sight of the big picture and make it less comfortable for other people either if it can at all be helped.

Bottom line: NO NEED FOR US TO TURN AGAINST EACH OTHER NOW, CHAPS o_q. We have enough common enemies outside of gaming as it is...

EDIT: Also, good thing nobody cares about Halo 4 anyway, mirite? ^_^