Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[LadyZephyr]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

If you come over to my house, call me a **** and then I kick you out am I censoring your free speech? No, I'm kicking you out because you're being a douchebag. Same thing here. They aren't censoring free speech, they are saying that if you want to use their servers then you're going to follow their rules. Thats like saying that banning someone for modding the Xbox with a J-FAG to play the game for them is abusing your right to property.

Anyhow, I'm glad about this. A permanent ban might be a little harsh but to be honest that doesn't bother me considering I don't say sexist shit because I'm not a douchebag, therefore it only serves to better my experience. Maybe now we'll get to see a lot more girls on Halo, God knows we could use a little diversity.

It ain't your house though (and if you throw someone out of your house he's still free to call you a "****" somewhere else), nor is it Microsofts "house", I approve of serverside bans where everyone can control their little "community" to abide by whatever rules they set up for it and people who don't like it can go to another server, but banning someone from an entire service because you don't like what they have to say or someone feels "offended" by it, even though they might just be talking to their friends/blowing off Steam or are having a bad time is blowing things out of proportion. It would be similar to cutting someones phone line because you didn't like what they said in a phone conference or felt "offended" by it or services like Skype banning people for the same reasons.

If you don't like what people have to say you are free not to engange with them, to mute them all, to mute everyone or go somewhere else without imposing your rules on millions of people that just want to have some fun.

You seem to be under the impression that the company that owns or rents the servers is okay with you "blowing off steam" by driving off a section of their potential customers.

You are entitled to say whatever you want.

You are not entitled to a free megaphone when you do it.

 

[ShirowShirow]

It ain't your house though (and if you throw someone out of your house he's still free to call you a "****" somewhere else), nor is it Microsofts "house", I approve of serverside bans where everyone can control their little "community" to abide by whatever rules they set up for it and people who don't like it can go to another server, but banning someone from an entire service because you don't like what they have to say or someone feels "offended" by it, even though they might just be talking to their friends/blowing off Steam or are having a bad time is blowing things out of proportion. It would be similar to cutting someones phone line because you didn't like what they said in a phone conference or felt "offended" by it or services like Skype banning people for the same reasons.

If you don't like what people have to say you are free not to engange with them, to mute them all, to mute everyone or go somewhere else without imposing your rules on millions of people that just want to have some fun.

Again, victim blaming.

Also, having a lot less people calling eachother faggots will DRASTICALLY increase my own fun.

Also, calling other people faggots isn't a part of what the games are supposed to be.

Also, rules are sorta what games are built off of. Without it you just have a bunch of people doing nothing.

Also, "Blowing off steam" is probably the worst excuse I can think of for someone engaging in bigotry.

 

[Stu35]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again. Don't want a company giving you rules on their product, don't buy that product.

If the company wants your business, they'll be forced to change.

e.g. I'm not much of a fan of "Your rights end where my feelings begin", it leads to an atmosphere devoid of fun where people can't really relax and constantly have to tip-toe around inane rules.

I agree. However, I've been on XBox live, and in games where a female was present. Honestly, Xbox live seems to be where the people that Youtube commentators look down on hang out.

Next they'll try removing the tackling and swears from Football or Hockey. Kinda reminds me of the recent South Park episode "Sarcastaball"

Once again, I agree on the principle, and I'm generally the first person in with a racist, sexist, or homophobic joke to any conversation (It's okay though, I've got a black, gay woman friend, so it's all cool(see what I did there?)). I'm also generally the first person to point out that somebody else getting offended is not a good enough reason to ban something.

However...

Some of the kids on XBox live are just cunts of the absolute highest order. I mean, between sending the SEALS after Osama Bin Laden and sending them to hunt down and shut the little bastards the fuck up, I'd actually have been inclined towards the latter.

 

[Erttheking]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

If you come over to my house, call me a **** and then I kick you out am I censoring your free speech? No, I'm kicking you out because you're being a douchebag. Same thing here. They aren't censoring free speech, they are saying that if you want to use their servers then you're going to follow their rules. Thats like saying that banning someone for modding the Xbox with a J-FAG to play the game for them is abusing your right to property.

Anyhow, I'm glad about this. A permanent ban might be a little harsh but to be honest that doesn't bother me considering I don't say sexist shit because I'm not a douchebag, therefore it only serves to better my experience. Maybe now we'll get to see a lot more girls on Halo, God knows we could use a little diversity.

It ain't your house though (and if you throw someone out of your house he's still free to call you a "****" somewhere else), nor is it Microsofts "house", I approve of serverside bans where everyone can control their little "community" to abide by whatever rules they set up for it and people who don't like it can go to another server, but banning someone from an entire service because you don't like what they have to say or someone feels "offended" by it, even though they might just be talking to their friends/blowing off Steam or are having a bad time is blowing things out of proportion. It would be similar to cutting someones phone line because you didn't like what they said in a phone conference or felt "offended" by it or services like Skype banning people for the same reasons.

If you don't like what people have to say you are free not to engange with them, to mute them all, to mute everyone or go somewhere else without imposing your rules on millions of people that just want to have some fun.

I don't really buy the "just mute them" argument. Some people want to go on xbox live without having to hide from interacting with other people online socially. That really should be an indicator of a bigger problem that people have to do that. Besides, what if people want to be able to socialize on other people online without being discriminated against? It's not fair to say "oh just talk to the people you already know" some people want to talk to people on XBL to, say, organize team efforts.

Also, things like this are against the code of conduct, the thing that people promised to follow when they created their xbox live account. If they break the code of conduct, by doing something such as harassing people, microsoft can punish or ban people. These people are breaking the rules, I don't see why them getting punished for it is a bad thing.

 

[Easton Dark]

Stop saying 'just mute them'.

Don't have anyone be malicious enough to be muted in the first place.

If one person mutes them that doesn't stop that ass from going to another game and ruining someone else's time.

 

[soh45400]

This kind of thread again?
This could have been made much better and much much less rage inducing by saying they will ban ALL abusive comments. But women's problems get special preference, as always and the related thread turns into a flame war as always.

I highly disapprove of this kind of sexist behavior, and the response is fine too(in my opinion). But the comments with the response paints my whole gender as evil, again. I didn't do anything, why do I have to feel like the bad guy?

Forget solving them, we can't even talk about problems only men face. The words Male Rights Activist has become an insult on Escapist.

I have never seen female dominated mediums making concessions for men, I have never seen them criticizing women. Men do both and we are still evil?
Can someone just post some good things about men so I don't feel my gender is being targeted as evil?
I have resorted to not talking to women at all(except for work-related stuff) to make sure they know I am not harassing them, that I am not one of those kind of people.

 

[ToffeeMC]

Awesome.
Maybe I'll even play the damn thing if I can go on Xbox live for five minutes without someone having to make a big deal out of my voice (and purple armour).

It's about time someone did something about Xbox live.

Are you saying that only women have purple armour?! omg sexist /ban


No, I kid. But I do agree that permaban is a bit too harsh. A permanent chat ban could be better, everyone's happy that way.

 

[Catrixa]

...You know, I have a feeling this whole thing came about from:
Women canceling their Xbox Live accounts/not playing multiplayer -> devs/Microsoft asking why -> women saying "I don't want to be harassed" -> devs/Microsoft wanting money and active users out of said women.

So, if you're worried about being banned for mentioning the word "kitchen" in a match (maybe you want to talk about remodeling it and are afraid of those horrible Feminazis), why not just do the same? If this is really a big deal, you won't be alone. If nearly all of the Halo 4 users are banned from multiplayer and complaining about it, I'm pretty sure they'll do something. At the end of the day, being PC is nice, but money makes decisions. If you're worried about censorship, don't play, but tell them why!

...I have a feeling, though, that the doom is pretty far from the day...

 

[awesomeClaw]

Permabans are pretty much universally a terrible idea, though. It's the harshest punishment possible for game publishers to give to their players, and contrary to what seems intuitive, mild punishments are really the only functional way to change behaviour. Since sexism/racism/anything you say on a video game aren't going to be serious crimes that require us to lock away the offenders to protect the public safety, it seems reasonable to conclude that we want to change behaviour rather than punish. As psychological research consistently shows, harsh punishments create a harsh reaction from whoever receives them. Instead of influencing a behavioural change, it will simply make the recipients view the punishers as cruel and unfair. This will make any message that is being sent ignored, because why would someone care what a cruel and unfair person has to say? Even if they stop the behaviour, they will only stop it in presence of a potential punishment, and as soon as they leave that situation, the behaviour will begin again.

However, if you use mild punishments, it creates a moral conflict in the recipient. They dislike the mild punishment and want to avoid it, but even if they don't initially react well, the initial anger will fade away. Then, the question becomes, "Why am I doing this?" The punishment itself is mild enough that the person can't really justify it as a reason in and of itself to change behaviour, so they end up deciding that they didn't really like the behaviour all that much anyway, and convince themselves to stop acting in that way. (The explanation is somewhat more complex, but I don't want to write a full paper here, so it's enough to say that it works).

Therefore, if you want to reduce sexism or racism or anything else, you should only use mild punishments like a 24-hour ban for anything that doesn't massively impinge the ability of anyone to play the game (like hacking; that needs to be eliminated right away for credibility purposes). Maybe take away some earned weapons or stats, but nothing that will be permanently damaging to the player. You can't kick all the sexist and racist players off all the games with bans, but you can start influencing a behavioural change, and permabans are exactly the wrong way to do it.

Finally, someone with a bit of sense. Listen to this guy everybody!

Though I would suggest the following course of action: If it is found that a person has broken the rules regarding harassment and other, they are subject to a 72-hour messaging/chatting ban. When 72 hours have passed, they are given back the right to chat, message etc. But they´re on probation. If they misbehave again within an alloted time, they are given a two-week ban. Again, a one-month. It goes all the way up to three months. This way, a person always feels there´s a way back, no matter how far they´ve gone.

 

[Erttheking]

I'd rather companies do not prevent or censor free speech or in other ways superimpose their "company rules" on their customers.

Well I've said it before and I'll say it again. Don't want a company giving you rules on their product, don't buy that product.

If the company wants your business, they'll be forced to change.

I'm not in fact, it is one of the reasons why I won't be getting a console and I'm a PC gamer and will remain one as specified above.

It's also one of the reasons why I won't buy games like this: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/08/31/arenanot-guild-wars-2-permabans-direct-sales-halted/

I'm not sure where people are even getting that I'm foul-mouthed from, I was rather calm and logical even when I was younger and I barely talk to many people outside of friends nowadays.
It is against the basic principle of people expecting a company to "baby" them against what they don't want to hear that I am fundamentally against.

So what are you trying to say? That people should be allowed to do whatever they want without any fear of consequences? I don't see why the jerks should be getting off scott free here. There have to be rules in organized networks like Xbox live and there have to be consequences when people make things more inconvenient for everyone else, and break the rules that they said that they would follow.

 

[Stu35]

I'm not sure where people are even getting that I'm foul-mouthed from,

I never said you were.

It is against the basic principle of people expecting a company to "baby" them against what they don't want to hear that I am fundamentally against.

And I said I agreed with you. However as I said - such a thing is a companies wont, and if people are still buying that product then people like us just have to accept that and ignore that product until it goes away.

It's like XFactor or Big Brother - it's fucking retarded, and the fact it's so popular makes me not want to live on this planet any more, but all I can ultimately do is not hand money over to the people that make it, and hope enough people do the same that it goes away.

Also, I really, really, really hate those annoying fucking kids on XBox live, and I think it'd be kind of funny to see mass perma-bannings.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

And by the way, there's a massive difference between saying something that one person finds offensive, and then actively attacking them with offensive remarks

Not with a "zero-tolerance" policy there isn't. That's the problem.

 

[Tsaba]

population control XBox live? "Can I have it?""Yes, Please."

 

[annoyinglizardvoice]

Sounds like an improvement. i might actually bother with playing online now

 

[Lionsfan]

I've read through the whole thread, and I can't believe I'm the first to say it, but to me this seems like a whole bunch of bravado.

Sure they say they're going to crack down, and permaban people, but is it really that feasible to accomplish? Halo Reach has anywhere from around 25,000 people to 250,000 people playing it. How the hell are they gonna moderate all those people?

Just on the Escapist we have problems with Mods covering every post, and that's on a text forum where we can see everything that everyone has said/or is saying.

But with the game they're suddenly going to be able to moderate real-time talking? How? A report system isn't going to accurately convey what was/wasn't said, and it would come down to he said/she said (what if someone reports someone else for saying "fuck" a lot"? Will that be on the report?)

It's a noble idea (even if I don't entirely agree with it), but there's no way that it's going to be effective

 

[Erttheking]

And by the way, there's a massive difference between saying something that one person finds offensive, and then actively attacking them with offensive remarks

Not with a "zero-tolerance" policy there isn't. That's the problem.

There's a zero tolerance policy against being sexist and discriminatory, not trash talking. That was his problem, and there's a difference between that.

 

[ResonanceGames]

It is against the basic principle of people expecting a company to "baby" them against what they don't want to hear that I am fundamentally against.

I know, it's like that time I went to gym and called the women stupid cunts who should get back in the kitchen. They had the nerve to kick me out of THEIR gym and not even refund my money!

I mean, what is wrong with people that they can't understand that I can go anywhere I want and say anything I want and they just either have to deal with it or hit the mute button? It's a basic human right, I tells ya.

 

[LadyZephyr]

Let's go down the list for those just joining us. And I'll try to be inclusive, because this isn't just about women gamers sadly.

1. BUT BUT BUT FREE SPEECH.

Nope. Free speech exists in the public sector, not the private. You have the right to say whatever you want (so long as it does not endanger the lives of others), but you do not have the right to broadcast abuse and harassment using someone else's platform. The servers are privately owned and they have a code of conduct. You are not entitled to continue using those servers after breaking the code of conduct.

2. But sexist/homophobic/racist talk only offends thin-skinned people! Be less sensitive!

Nice victim blaming there.

We are not talking about isolated incidents. Let me say that again in bold tags. WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT ISOLATED INCIDENTS. We are talking about XBL, which is so virulently, ardently abusive and proud of it that it's a fucking no-fly zone for anyone who isn't white straight and male (SWM). We are talking about systemic, ingrained harassment. We are talking about people who are dogged out of games for having the audacity to not be SWM. This isn't about one badly timed "stay in the kitchen" joke.

3. I'm gay and I'm not offended by people calling me fag!

Oh my god, did I miss the last Queer Club meeting where we elected you our spokesperson? Darn, sorry about that.

But seriously, if you're not bothered by this shit, that's great and I genuinely envy your ability to not internalize it. That doesn't mean that everyone is that lucky, and that doesn't make the people who are offended less important.

4. I'm gonna get banned by feminazis!

With every ban system, there are abusers. You can report someone for cheating using mods and get them banned when they're innocent. That happens on occasion. If that happens to you, I'm sorry, and that really sucks, but on the cost-benefit analysis, you kinda lose.

And since you have about another 500 multiplayer-focused FPS games that don't care about protecting their userbases from abuse, I'm sure you'll find safe harbor.

5. But trash talk is a part of gamer culture!

This is probably the worst.

If your culture is dependent on driving out anyone who isn't SWM, if it cannot exist without being able to drive anyone with a feminine username out of the game, if it will crumble without being able to hurl invectives, if it feeds on an environment that tells you it's okay to harass people to "let off steam"

then that culture deserves to go down. Any culture that fosters exclusiveness and hate isn't entitled to shit.

Gaming culture has gotten a free pass for a long time. In recent years, people have been deciding that's not okay. Just because you are suddenly under scrutiny now doesn't mean you shouldn't've been the whole time.

This is one step forward. If you don't like it, don't get the game. Me, personally, this will likely be the first Halo game I ever purchase, and if this system is in place, I'll buy it at full price. Things like this need to be encouraged.

Dem's the breaks.