Han and Greedo : Am I missing something?

[The Treasoner]

"Whaa whaa, release the UNTOUCHED, UNEDITED Theatrical cut on DVD!"- Lucas does. Fanboys whine that they are in fact, untouched JUST LIKE THEY WANTED.

This isn't really all that accurate. Many fans of Star Wars did not like the new crap, and when Lucas announced that he would never release the original copies of the film on DVD, many fans were put out by this. We asked for the THX restored (but no extra scenes added) copies of the films we fell in love with and he refused? Why?

Well, that came out later when Lucas finally did release the originals. And they weren't restored original copies, they were rips from Laserdiscs. Why? LUCAS TAPED OVER THE ORIGINAL MASTERS. That's not "whining because we got exactly what we wanted". That is accurately informing Lucas that he's destroyed the things that made him.

Frick, if I'm not mistaken, didn't those DVD's also have the modern restored version on them too? So that the geeks could do rants and raves via comparison between the two cuts on one disc?

Yes, the crappy new version comes with the older good version. Why is that? Because the good version cannot be allowed to outsell the new one. Lucas would have to admit that he has *no idea* what his fans really like. That's not something we whine about. That's something we poke fun at him for.

- J

He taped over the masters? Really? I'm somehow doubting that.

And I'm really tired of the fanboys acting like one or two changed scenes = a new movie.

This is why the bulk of movie sequels SUCK.

From what I can tell, the farmboy blows up the big Unicron-like thing in the first movie in ALL version, the princess and the smuggler still get it on and the smuggler still gets owned by Billy Dee Williams in all versions, and Darth Vader turns pussy at the end.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

He taped over the masters? Really? I'm somehow doubting that.

Bam.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23493

Bam Bam.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/06/07#1149665580

Bam Bam Bam.

- J

 

[The Treasoner]

He taped over the masters? Really? I'm somehow doubting that.

Bam.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23493

Bam Bam.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/06/07#1149665580

Bam Bam Bam.

- J

The angle from which these are written cannot be anymore obvious. They were written by fanboys, that's one mark against them already.

"EVEN IF it's true that Lucas and his staff destroyed all of the original negatives, it's UNLIKELY IN THE EXTREME that they also destroyed all of the interpositives, all of the separation masters, and all of the release prints. IN FACT, WE KNOW THAT THEY DIDN'T."

I don't think anymore needs to be said.

 

[GloatingSwine]

It's his movie... he can do whatever he wants to it. If the movie were made by another director, I'd be with you completely. It's your prerogative to crucify the man for changing something that wouldn't have noticed if you weren't looking for it, but remember that it's his property (both intellectual and physical) and you have no right to tell him what to do with it.

Well, you would notice it. The altered version is a really sloppy FX shot.

 

[The Treasoner]

He taped over the masters? Really? I'm somehow doubting that.

Bam.

http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=23493

Bam Bam.

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/06/07#1149665580

Bam Bam Bam.

- J

The angle from which these are written cannot be anymore obvious. They were written by fanboys, that's one mark against them already.

"EVEN IF it's true that Lucas and his staff destroyed all of the original negatives, it's UNLIKELY IN THE EXTREME that they also destroyed all of the interpositives, all of the separation masters, and all of the release prints. IN FACT, WE KNOW THAT THEY DIDN'T."

I don't think anymore needs to be said.

So you're saying that because it was written by a fan, it must therefore be false. Real mature buddy. He just gave you two example, basically poitned you to the information, and you simply shoved it aside proclaiming that because you cannot see it, it must be a lie. Do a little growing up before engaging in an argument.

I did nothing of the kind. I stated that it was ONE STRIKE against them because I don't take ANY slanted articles as gospel. It could have been written by an Anti-SW person or some other type and I wouldn't take it as gospel.

And I emphasized the parts in quotes that I feel carry MY point that Lucas did not destroy the original completely, if even at all.

 

[The Treasoner]

Okay for one, one of the references he gave you was from Penny Arcade. They've been around for a while and haver shown that they aren't as bias as other sources, if bias at all. They've done a much better job than some sources who shall not be named. They aren't just some random people typing Star Wars hate. Otherwise the gentleman would not have cited them.

And second, you quoted a portion that carried YOUR point, and we're supposed to accept it even though you seem to be able to refute the rest of the evidence given?

And THIRD: George Lucas is a well known giver of "Fuck You"s to his fans. How would this be so refutable?

I didn't quote Penny Arcade, I don't take news from a bloody WEBCOMIC, I quoted from AICN. This is like asking a butcher for watch repair.

I quoted it because it outright says there's NO confirmation ANYTHING has been destroyed like he claims, and in fact, states that many portions of the original are DEFINITELY not in danger of destruction.

Yes, just because Georgie boy doesn't cater to your every whim he's a "Fuck you" man. Lord forbid he have ANY control over HIS creation...

 

[Saskwach]

I can't speak for Star Wars fans. Hell I'm not one myself beyond "Star Wars is cool". But though I'm sure there's a vocal minority that just hates George Lucas, most fans just want/ed Lucas to release the originals. Oh and it would have been nice if the prequels were good. When he refused on both counts fans were understandably angry because there was no GOOD reason to. This isn't asking to have their every whim catered, this is simple and understandable. Stop making straw men.
And don't start on about "it's his movie and he can do with it what he wills". Of course he can. No one disputes that. I see no lawsuits against Lucas from any sane fans.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

I didn't quote Penny Arcade, I don't take news from a bloody WEBCOMIC, I quoted from AICN. This is like asking a butcher for watch repair.

I see others have taken up in my defense while I was working. I even got called a gentleman. I think I'm flattered. That said, it's true that comics are not the place for news, however, when it comes to the accuracy of Star Wars related news, it's hard to find a much better source than Michael Krahulik. I wouldn't have put it out there otherwise.

I quoted it because it outright says there's NO confirmation ANYTHING has been destroyed like he claims, and in fact, states that many portions of the original are DEFINITELY not in danger of destruction.

This point I must give to you, however I would put forward that the original re-release was a rip from Laserdisc, and that when challenged on the issue of the original negatives being wiped due to Lucas' "new vision" being more important to him, they were disturbingly silent on the subject. It is not unlikely that we will see the true, fully restored versions released on Blu-Ray (or some other similar new media) from the extra copies (a process more financially challenging to undertake than going straight from the masters). It still doesn't change the fact that Lucas is burying his fingers in his ears and going, "La la la!" to all the fans that have been asking for the originals since day one.

Yes, just because Georgie boy doesn't cater to your every whim he's a "Fuck you" man. Lord forbid he have ANY control over HIS creation...

I think others have argued against this point of view in this very thread better than I would. That said, I'll remind you that the changes discussed here aren't about the movie being different, but rather about alterations made to many people's favorite characters. The general story does hold true, but people fell in love with Star Wars for the characters just as much as the story.

It's as if Lucas can only handle about three concepts at once, and his techniques for making art involve stealing other people's stuff, cutting off anything that gives him a thinkache, and releasing it.

Originally, Star Wars was just Dune with all the hard bits cut off. Then, Star Wars grew and evolved and became this monster in and of itself, with an expanded universe that (metaphorically) spanned galaxies. What did George do? Stole Star Wars (which at that point belonged more to people like Timothy Zahn than him) and cut off all the hard bits in a retcon that he called episodes 1, 2, and 3. A lot of the die-hards see the edited versions of 4, 5, and 6 as the precursors to this.

Personally, I'm not one to get angry about it. I don't go off about how Lucas likes to fuck his fans or anything. But I can see that Lucas' main interest at this point is money. Money obtained in the easiest way possible. It's fun watching the trainwreck that causes when someone like that holds the reins to one of the most powerful IPs in the world.

- J

 

[The Treasoner]

I didn't quote Penny Arcade, I don't take news from a bloody WEBCOMIC, I quoted from AICN. This is like asking a butcher for watch repair.

I see others have taken up in my defense while I was working. I even got called a gentleman. I think I'm flattered. That said, it's true that comics are not the place for news, however, when it comes to the accuracy of Star Wars related news, it's hard to find a much better source than Michael Krahulik. I wouldn't have put it out there otherwise.

I quoted it because it outright says there's NO confirmation ANYTHING has been destroyed like he claims, and in fact, states that many portions of the original are DEFINITELY not in danger of destruction.

This point I must give to you, however I would put forward that the original re-release was a rip from Laserdisc, and that when challenged on the issue of the original negatives being wiped due to Lucas' "new vision" being more important to him, they were disturbingly silent on the subject. It is not unlikely that we will see the true, fully restored versions released on Blu-Ray (or some other similar new media) from the extra copies (a process more financially challenging to undertake than going straight from the masters). It still doesn't change the fact that Lucas is burying his fingers in his ears and going, "La la la!" to all the fans that have been asking for the originals since day one.

Yes, just because Georgie boy doesn't cater to your every whim he's a "Fuck you" man. Lord forbid he have ANY control over HIS creation...

I think others have argued against this point of view in this very thread better than I would. That said, I'll remind you that the changes discussed here aren't about the movie being different, but rather about alterations made to many people's favorite characters. The general story does hold true, but people fell in love with Star Wars for the characters just as much as the story.

It's as if Lucas can only handle about three concepts at once, and his techniques for making art involve stealing other people's stuff, cutting off anything that gives him a thinkache, and releasing it.

Originally, Star Wars was just Dune with all the hard bits cut off. Then, Star Wars grew and evolved and became this monster in and of itself, with an expanded universe that (metaphorically) spanned galaxies. What did George do? Stole Star Wars (which at that point belonged more to people like Timothy Zahn than him) and cut off all the hard bits in a retcon that he called episodes 1, 2, and 3. A lot of the die-hards see the edited versions of 4, 5, and 6 as the precursors to this.

Personally, I'm not one to get angry about it. I don't go off about how Lucas likes to fuck his fans or anything. But I can see that Lucas' main interest at this point is money. Money obtained in the easiest way possible. It's fun watching the trainwreck that causes when someone like that holds the reins to one of the most powerful IPs in the world.

- J

I'll admit I find debating with you somewhat more palatable than with the average fanboy as you at least admit George didn't kill your damned dog like all the others.

Ya know, people actually WANTED those prequels? Yeah, keep bothering Georgie for more movies, then scream bloody murder when they're not 100% fanservice. Fans a are fickle, loathesome beast indeed.

In fact, I even remember them crying bloody murder when he stated there would be no more movies, let alone any set post ROTJ. Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose.

I'll admit I find pretty much any EU writer's stuff more enjoyable than Lucas', but the man deserves more credit and respect than he gets. If such spoiled brats were MY fans, I'd REALLY show them hell.

 

[The Treasoner]

I'll admit I find pretty much any EU writer's stuff more enjoyable than Lucas', but the man deserves more credit and respect than he gets. If such spoiled brats were MY fans, I'd REALLY show them hell.

At one point Lucas HAD earned his credit. Then he remade his movies eight times 1: for money, and 2: hoping to reinspire the love he didn't have for the originals. He didnt make the movies for his fans, he made them for himself.
It'd be as if John Romero remade Daikatana without the sidekicks, then rereleased it WITH them all over again, only it also ame with the version WITHOUT them. (Granted noone would buy it anyway)
It's not about fans, it's about Lucas' ego. He doesn't care about the people. If he did he wouldn't have put the 'remastered' versions in with the originals. That's the point. He thinks what he did was right, and that everyone else is an idiot.
It's not about fans screaming for something then whinning about it. It's about fans screaming for something that Lucas didn't like and then him ruining it just to fuel his own ego. (The orignal trilogy that is. I stopped carring about 1,2 and 3 after 2)

Seriously, it's the same way with Metallica. They're sound has changed so much that it's obvious they're only playing what makes them money/popular. Would you be as happy with your favortie writer if he changed your favorite book 4 times simply because said writer didn't like it even after it was released?

Again, you bring up money. Yes, Lucas does work for money... But that's because working PURELY for the fan or for the purpose of being good not only can not pay off in the end, but cost you drastically. Look at the game industry- Tim Schafer doesn't make games for money, he makes them for his fans and for the sake of making a good game, yet his games don't sell. Having business sense does not mean you damn the fans.

 

[Rjak]

It's his movie... he can do whatever he wants to it.

If George Lucas has the right to make shitty movies, I have the right to talk about how shitty they are.

 

[Kaisharga]

Truly, a shirt this thread needs [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v121/Kaisharga/Lincolnshotfirst.gif]

 

[The Treasoner]

I'll admit I find pretty much any EU writer's stuff more enjoyable than Lucas', but the man deserves more credit and respect than he gets. If such spoiled brats were MY fans, I'd REALLY show them hell.

At one point Lucas HAD earned his credit. Then he remade his movies eight times 1: for money, and 2: hoping to reinspire the love he didn't have for the originals. He didnt make the movies for his fans, he made them for himself.
It'd be as if John Romero remade Daikatana without the sidekicks, then rereleased it WITH them all over again, only it also ame with the version WITHOUT them. (Granted noone would buy it anyway)
It's not about fans, it's about Lucas' ego. He doesn't care about the people. If he did he wouldn't have put the 'remastered' versions in with the originals. That's the point. He thinks what he did was right, and that everyone else is an idiot.
It's not about fans screaming for something then whinning about it. It's about fans screaming for something that Lucas didn't like and then him ruining it just to fuel his own ego. (The orignal trilogy that is. I stopped carring about 1,2 and 3 after 2)

Seriously, it's the same way with Metallica. They're sound has changed so much that it's obvious they're only playing what makes them money/popular. Would you be as happy with your favortie writer if he changed your favorite book 4 times simply because said writer didn't like it even after it was released?

Again, you bring up money. Yes, Lucas does work for money... But that's because working PURELY for the fan or for the purpose of being good not only can not pay off in the end, but cost you drastically. Look at the game industry- Tim Schafer doesn't make games for money, he makes them for his fans and for the sake of making a good game, yet his games don't sell. Having business sense does not mean you damn the fans.

Yes he needs money, but with all the franchises (not counting Admiral Akbar Crunchies) that Lucas has, he's already making enough money. From toys, cereal, shirts and other paraphenilia, He doesn't need money. The Star Wars remakes aren't about making ends meet for him. He doesn't need anymore money than he already has. He just wants more and that's when it becomes a problem. He's not doing it because it's all he knows, he's doing it because it's all he wants. He's not making/remaking Star Wars for others people to enjoy, he's making/remaking them for him to enjoy.

You're absolutely correct, he doesn't NEED money. But that doesn't mean he needs to lose the bulk of it on pure fanservice.

 

[The Treasoner]

I'll admit I find pretty much any EU writer's stuff more enjoyable than Lucas', but the man deserves more credit and respect than he gets. If such spoiled brats were MY fans, I'd REALLY show them hell.

At one point Lucas HAD earned his credit. Then he remade his movies eight times 1: for money, and 2: hoping to reinspire the love he didn't have for the originals. He didnt make the movies for his fans, he made them for himself.
It'd be as if John Romero remade Daikatana without the sidekicks, then rereleased it WITH them all over again, only it also ame with the version WITHOUT them. (Granted noone would buy it anyway)
It's not about fans, it's about Lucas' ego. He doesn't care about the people. If he did he wouldn't have put the 'remastered' versions in with the originals. That's the point. He thinks what he did was right, and that everyone else is an idiot.
It's not about fans screaming for something then whinning about it. It's about fans screaming for something that Lucas didn't like and then him ruining it just to fuel his own ego. (The orignal trilogy that is. I stopped carring about 1,2 and 3 after 2)

Seriously, it's the same way with Metallica. They're sound has changed so much that it's obvious they're only playing what makes them money/popular. Would you be as happy with your favortie writer if he changed your favorite book 4 times simply because said writer didn't like it even after it was released?

Again, you bring up money. Yes, Lucas does work for money... But that's because working PURELY for the fan or for the purpose of being good not only can not pay off in the end, but cost you drastically. Look at the game industry- Tim Schafer doesn't make games for money, he makes them for his fans and for the sake of making a good game, yet his games don't sell. Having business sense does not mean you damn the fans.

Yes he needs money, but with all the franchises (not counting Admiral Akbar Crunchies) that Lucas has, he's already making enough money. From toys, cereal, shirts and other paraphenilia, He doesn't need money. The Star Wars remakes aren't about making ends meet for him. He doesn't need anymore money than he already has. He just wants more and that's when it becomes a problem. He's not doing it because it's all he knows, he's doing it because it's all he wants. He's not making/remaking Star Wars for others people to enjoy, he's making/remaking them for him to enjoy.

You're absolutely correct, he doesn't NEED money. But that doesn't mean he needs to lose the bulk of it on pure fanservice.

And if he wants to remake his films into a version HE likes, considering HE made them, let him. It just seems like his fans really don't care about him at all, I don't hear anyone whining that Ridley Scott keeps remaking Blade Runner and that each remake gets significantly different from the Theatrical version.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

And if he wants to remake his films into a version HE likes, considering HE made them, let him. It just seems like his fans really don't care about him at all, I don't hear anyone whining that Ridley Scott keeps remaking Blade Runner and that each remake gets significantly different from the Theatrical version.

Actually, that really bothers me, especially since he cut out the monologue, which I really liked, and made Deckard a replicant, which kind of destroyed the whole "Your maker made you better than mine made me" point.

Scott did many good things, but his alterations to Blade Runner bothered me greatly.

- J, still has the original version

 

[Saskwach]

And if people want to ***** about his remakes of films THEY liked, considering THEY watched them, let them.

You see what I did there?
Don't ***** about bitching. It makes no sense.