Hardcore mode - A video game scourge? Or immersive tool?

[Wayward Man]

When reading about this hardcore mode in the new Fallout out game, I couldn't help but wonder if this would work well in other games as well, the main benefit is that it can be switched on and off depending on what you prefer, so in a way it's good for both sides as it wouldn't be forced on those who don't want it.
To introduce a new element to the equation that has already surfaced in a few games, I was playing, and don't hurt me for this, Pokemon earlier and thought the ability to buy a house, the need to eat, and the need to sleep would be quite interesting, you could just end up at a hospital having passed out if you became too hungry to avoid having to introduce any kind of death mechanic to the lovely innocent world of Pokemon and force enslaved beings to fight continually without worrying about starving to death.
When I say buying houses many people think of fable 3, but the important thing to remember is that I'm talking about a flat somewhere where you could keep food in the fridge, sleep in a warm bed, and cook better food, not buy everything and become insanely rich.
So the question is if hardcore mode and the ability to buy a house is an effective immersive tool or unwanted scourge? Maybe an irritating chore?
I personally think it really helps you immerse yourself in the game, as fun as being the man with the iron stomach and heart of stone is, it does get tiring, but so does realism, so having it there to switch on and off is a good thing in my opinion.
Though I?m curious if you all like it anyway?

 

[Wayward Man]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

How about Irritaiting Chore?
Seriously though, hardcore mode isn't as difficlut as you'd think it would be.

 

[Levi93]

although its immersion breaking in fallout (IMO)i think with some reworking it could be a very good game mechanic.

 

[XzarTheMad]

Meh.

Hardcore mode in New Vegas is alright. It's not all that big of a deal, more of just a hassle now and then. Basically just means you get to carry less loot, have to stick to fewer weapons, have to carry some stuff around you might not need in non-hardcore mode. Apart from that.. same game.

I think a game like GTA could benefit from it, giving it a more "realistic" style. However, in most games the emphasis is on the action, and having to take a break from it is sort of missing the point somewhat. Generally, unless this behaviour rewards you in some way, it's not worth it. Now, if New Vegas Hardcore mode gave us special HC-mode-only perks, or altered the combat to make it more realistic (Really, Fiend? Two 9mm rounds to the face and all you do it grunt and touch your nose? You got that much brain to spare?) it might be more interesting. As it is, it's a way to roleplay, but that's something people have been doing for ages without these gamemodes. Hell, most of my time in Oblivion was spent roleplaying.

 

[Wayward Man]

How about Irritaiting Chore?

Maybe an irritating chore?

I know what you mean sometimes

 

[Something Amyss]

For me, it ruins the immersion. When Yahtzee said that Cola shouldn't make you more thirsty, or +H2O, or whatever, I agree. I don't like it when real world issues mix with HP and skill levels. When I GAME, I want to GAME!

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

Funny you should say that, my father always told me pop simply made you more thirsty, so that never bothered me

It's not true, though. Well, not directly, anyway. You'll get thirstier faster than with water, but it doesn't have a negative impact

 

[JWRosser]

Guild Wars had a Hardcore mode. Essentially, it just made enemies a hell of a lot stronger.

I think it's a good idea, personally. During my first playthrough of New Vegas I opted not to do Hardcore Mode so I could leisurely enjoy the game. On my second character though, I have it on...and it's still very fun, you just approach the game in a different way. It's kind of like Sims in the Wasteland.

 

[Wayward Man]

Or altered the combat to make it more realistic (Really, Fiend? Two 9mm rounds to the face and all you do it grunt and touch your nose? You got that much brain to spare?)

Your talking like being on par with the enemy, both having the same ability, simply a matter of player skill, that's got to be one of my all time game play fantasies.
Like switching on a mode in one of your favourate games, and they all become as powerful as you do, not harder, not easier, simply fairer.

 

[Turbo_Destructor]

Well I like the Fallout New Vegas setup - you can choose to turn it on and off at anytime. That way, it's completely up to you - if you like it, keep playing hardcore, if you don't, then, well, don;t.

In the end I would say it comes down to the individual games interpretation of hardcore mode. It could be tedious if not done properly, otherwise it might be realy challenging and immersive. I'm not willing to make any blanket judgements

 

[paddyshay]

I'm pretty sure San Andreas already had all these features in it's main game (broke the game a while ago so I might be wrong), and it wasn't that big a deal to me then either. I guess it was pretty nifty to get fatter or skinnier based on how you eat and junk but...

 

[MassiveGeek]

Well, I haven't played on hardcore mode yet, I want to finish the game at least once before I do it.

But sure, it's kind of a nifty idea I suppose. Could add a sense of realism, but honestly, people who game usually want simplicity in the game mechanics and the depth in the story/surroundings, from what I'm guessing.

We don't want Fallout to turn into the Sims, just with guns, right?

 

[Vrach]

And no way drinking from an irradiated toilet heals you more than a fresh Nuka-cola, bollocks!

It doesn't actually, toilet water only gives a miserly 2 health or something, just like any other source of water constantly standing around (lakes, bathrooms). It just quenches your thirst unlike Cola that has caffeine in it, which dehydrates the body (really, IRL, if you're drinking Coca Cola cause you're thirsty, you're doing it wrong).

And yeah, in RPGs, I really love the option to do this. If it was something forced on me, it'd probably be a pain in the ass, but as it is, it's great.

Mind you, it doesn't necessarily "make sense" everywhere. I mean, technically you can throw it into any RPG, but the reason it feels so right and awesome in Fallout is because you're surrounded by a nuked desert which is made to feel like it's a challenge to survive in it.

For example, Oblivion was once considering throwing some hardcore elements in before the game was released... they were thinking about making you have to keep your horse fed or it'd die for one. But I'm not sure how much something like this would fit in there, being surrounded by a lush land where you can pick an edible piece of fruit/grass and sustain yourself without any real effort.

But maybe it could work, dunno. Bottom line, it's not really hard to implement at all and can add a lot of immersion for some people so putting it in an option ultimately never hurts.

 

[Valiance]

I think if a player wants it, a mod should exist for it, or an included game mode, like FO:NV. That said, when the major differences are Sims-style "hunger" or "bathroom" meters, it gets to the point of "Well, why not just play The Sims?" or some similar statement. I think there should be more to a game than just "The way the game is right now except with some other annoying things tacked on." It should be more like "We've revamped the game so the AI is better, the environments are more difficult to navigate," and so on.

 

[dark-amon]

How about Irritaiting Chore?
Seriously though, hardcore mode isn't as difficlut as you'd think it would be.

Not as hard as some may think, but not as immersive as one may hope. It's more of an inconvenience rather than a challenge.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Meh.

Hardcore mode in New Vegas is alright. It's not all that big of a deal, more of just a hassle now and then. Basically just means you get to carry less loot, have to stick to fewer weapons, have to carry some stuff around you might not need in non-hardcore mode. Apart from that.. same game.

Actually, even with Hardcore mode I still carry more weapons than I have quick-slots for, several apparel sets (no heavy armour though, that saves a ton of weight) and a bloody fuckton of ammunition for all those weapons. Combine that with the fact that water, food and Doctor's Bags are piss-easy to find and you end up with a Hardcore Mode that's pretty much a joke. I don't even need to sleep, just pop an Atomic Cocktail every once in a while, add a Purified Water and voila, you're good to go.

I like the fact that they tried though, and honestly it had quite a bit of immersion possibility. But as it is now it barely has any impact on the game. The AI is still retarded and the meters fill up pretty damn slowly anyway, plus you'll only get really crappy debuffs when you reach the second stage. Minor Dehydration/Starvation/Sleep Deprivation aren't that much of a hassle.

It's probably true. Alcohol dehydrates you even more I wonder if that's in the game.

If they want to make a realistic mode, they'd better give you an adrenalin boost when you get startled by a Deathclaw, without getting addicted because it's a natural drug.

Anyway, no hardcore for me!

Yup, alcohol dehydrates you quite a bit more than soda. And you can totally get addicted to natural drugs.