Has Pokemon always sucked?

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Sewer Rat

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I went back and actually watched the show, and yeah, it was pretty damned goofy. But, this may be the nostalgia goggles talking, I felt it was an enjoyable kind of goofy. I really haven't watched any of the new seasons (I quit at Advanced) but even then it was just getting pretty damned silly and tired, so I'm guessing it can't be much better now.

Not to mention the sheer level of backtracking the story has done is pretty amusing.
"YES! I have some of the most powerful pokemon ever! New Continent? LEAVE THEM ALL BEHIND!"
not to mention the fact that Ash's original hat was supposed to be the "Special uber prize winning glory hat" but then his mom gives him a new one and he just throws it on and never mentions the old one again. This is especially jarring considering he spent an entire episode going on about how awesome it was and chasing after a rabid pokemon (a mankey I believe....) to get it back.
 

Doc Theta Sigma

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The anime has definitely gotten worse. Sorry but after four or five seasons I refuse to believe Ash will get his arse handed to him by the first Gym Leader of a new region. EVERY GOD DAMN TIME. Frontier Brains? No problem. Gym Leader that most rookie trainers can handle? Well god damn I forgot how to battle.
 

The Diabolical Biz

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Bobic said:
How could a show featuring this line be considered bad?

Damn it! I was gonna post this too. Best line ever.

I was about to rush in here to defend the games, but yeah the anime is kinda eh.
 

Dr. Crawver

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LilithSlave said:
Pokemon has always been AWESOME in my opinion. Along with Mario, Zelda, Kirby, and everything else by Nintendo.

I do think that they focus too much on adding new Pokemon instead of new game mechanics. Still, they're continuously pretty solid jRPGs. Certainly more solid than the direction Final Fantasy has gone, Pokemon is giving you more options(slowly but surely), while Final Fantasy is giving you less.

Edit: Oh, you're talking about the anime. Eh, the humor is still much the same. Though it's pretty stupid that Satoshi/Ash is still considered the same age as when he started. They can keep him young looking or whatever, but when you're 10 years old for over 10 years, it's ridiculous. It's not like the creators have to shrink his eyes, make him super tall, and give him a beard. Just stop calling him 10 years old. And let him actually mature a little bit mentally.
jumped the gun there I see.

OT: I never watched beyond the first series back when I was a kid, and while I enjoyed it then, I seriously doubt I would now
 

Leemaster777

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While nostalgia certainly has a role in it, I'd say that the original series DOES hold up, to a small extent at least. It does start spiraling downward after the first season, however.

I've seen several of the Pokemon movies, and really, the first one is the only one that is actually worth a damn. Mostly because it has a legitimately threatening villain in Mewtwo, and it's the only time I'm aware of where the ethics of cloning, capturing, and battling Pokemon is called into question.

Really, I think that one of the major problems with the anime is that it IS basically one extended story about Ash. Two other long-running kids anime, Yugioh and Digimon, actually got this right. Each series has separate characters and situations, and only have the mildest connection to each other, if any at all.

Funnily enough, Pokemon seems BUILD for this kind of structure, as each new series of games starts in a new area, with new protagonists. But for some reason, they decided to go with long-running continuity on one character, and I feel the series has stagnated for it.

"But", some of you may say, "What about Pikachu, the series mascot?" Well, they could have handled Pikachu in a similar manner as Yugioh and Digimon. Each series of Yugioh features a Kuriboh of some kind, and each season of Digimon has a kid with goggles. Make it a tradition for one of the main characters to get a Pikachu, or equivelant Pokemon (like Pichu, Plusle/Minun, etc.). Problem solved.

Just my take on it.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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Macgyvercas said:
Everything up to Johto was great. Johto was where it started going downhill, and everything aftet that sucked.
Now that I think about it, that's actually pretty accurate, God the newer episodes suck.

OT: No, I thought they were awesome despite all the bad writing and the differences in logic between the games and the anime, like Ash using Thundershock on an Onyx(!!!) and winning.

It's pretty damn campy, but I wouldn't want it any other way.
 

Dizeazedkiller

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Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
As a side note the games are bad to. I enjoy them up until i get all my 6 main pokemon to lvl 20 and then i cbf grinding them any higher. I'm not saying they should make it faster to level, im just saying they should make it more entertaining, maybe make it an actual 3d gme where you can control your pokemon in fights instead of just taking turns.
That probably won't change, they are already very popular with the current formula, maybe turn based games just aren't your thing
I play Warmachine, a turn-based tabletop game, and i thoroughly enjoy it. I guess i just went of track and mentioned something that had no link to my original statement. Basically what im trying to say is that the pokemon games are fine turn based but the execution isn't very good or entertaining, its just being recycled, but i guess the young'uns that are actually meant to be watching the show or playing the game wouldn't have played or watched earlier games or seasons, so i guess the makers think they can just go on recycling the whole thing without adding much on...
 

Mau95

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He seemed to be growing up a bit, but the series has been going downhill since Piplup became an important character.
 

Furioso

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Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
As a side note the games are bad to. I enjoy them up until i get all my 6 main pokemon to lvl 20 and then i cbf grinding them any higher. I'm not saying they should make it faster to level, im just saying they should make it more entertaining, maybe make it an actual 3d gme where you can control your pokemon in fights instead of just taking turns.
That probably won't change, they are already very popular with the current formula, maybe turn based games just aren't your thing
I play Warmachine, a turn-based tabletop game, and i thoroughly enjoy it. I guess i just went of track and mentioned something that had no link to my original statement. Basically what im trying to say is that the pokemon games are fine turn based but the execution isn't very good or entertaining, its just being recycled, but i guess the young'uns that are actually meant to be watching the show or playing the game wouldn't have played or watched earlier games or seasons, so i guess the makers think they can just go on recycling the whole thing without adding much on...
I don't really buy that considering so many people still love the pokemon games regardless of their like/dislike of the show, love how it's combat works, and whats with the "without adding much on," In every release they have added a completely new area and entire gigantic cast of new pokemon, they went back and redid a few with leaf green/fire red and heart gold/soul silver but they added tons of content to those, the newest games actually have a played out story with villains that doesn't end midway through the gym leaders
 

Dizeazedkiller

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Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
As a side note the games are bad to. I enjoy them up until i get all my 6 main pokemon to lvl 20 and then i cbf grinding them any higher. I'm not saying they should make it faster to level, im just saying they should make it more entertaining, maybe make it an actual 3d gme where you can control your pokemon in fights instead of just taking turns.
That probably won't change, they are already very popular with the current formula, maybe turn based games just aren't your thing
I play Warmachine, a turn-based tabletop game, and i thoroughly enjoy it. I guess i just went of track and mentioned something that had no link to my original statement. Basically what im trying to say is that the pokemon games are fine turn based but the execution isn't very good or entertaining, its just being recycled, but i guess the young'uns that are actually meant to be watching the show or playing the game wouldn't have played or watched earlier games or seasons, so i guess the makers think they can just go on recycling the whole thing without adding much on...
I don't really buy that considering so many people still love the pokemon games regardless of their like/dislike of the show, love how it's combat works, and whats with the "without adding much on," In every release they have added a completely new area and entire gigantic cast of new pokemon, they went back and redid a few with leaf green/fire red and heart gold/soul silver but they added tons of content to those, the newest games actually have a played out story with villains that doesn't end midway through the gym leaders
Well i never picked up the latest game because the pokemon all look.... stupid. And well i expected it to just be another recycling with different looking gym leaders and baddies... Other people will enjoy it but i can't. After sapphire and the reboots of red and green it just went downhill for me. And the only reason i enjoyed sapphire was because of treeko and the bird pokemon you can get near the 1st gym town (swallow or something).
 

CODE-D

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For what it was it was actually good then around hoenn they stopped giving a shit and became formula.
At least in the first few seasons they had some interesting stories and used the pokemon in unique ways....also pokemon back then were assholes or had feelings you had to battle first because they dont like you.

Pikachu was an ass
Caterpie had aspirations
Pidgeotto wanted to eat caterpie=dick
Bulbasaur was a dick
Squirtle a dick
Charizard was an abused asshole


But now pokemon(even new ones) are just happy creatures and join your team. What The Fuck Happened!!!?
 

Pyramid Head

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Considering that fuck all has changed in the decades of Pokemon's existence, i'm going to say yes. If you think it sucks now, you would have thought it sucked years ago.
 

-KC-

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CODE-D said:
For what it was it was actually good then around hoenn they stopped giving a shit and became formula.
At least in the first few seasons they had some interesting stories and used the pokemon in unique ways....also pokemon back then were assholes or had feelings you had to battle first because they dont like you.

Pikachu was an ass
Caterpie had aspirations
Pidgeotto wanted to eat caterpie=dick
Bulbasaur was a dick
Squirtle a dick
Charizard was an abused asshole


But now pokemon(even new ones) are just happy creatures and join your team. What The Fuck Happened!!!?

So ... you like dicks and assholes ? :D


jk aside


Pkmn's anime sucked since it started for me, its same thing over and over again and FOR GOD'S SAKE FUCKING REMOVE TEAM ROCKET ALREADY, I CANT TAKE THEM ANYMORE !


:((((((((((((((((((((
 

Furioso

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Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
As a side note the games are bad to. I enjoy them up until i get all my 6 main pokemon to lvl 20 and then i cbf grinding them any higher. I'm not saying they should make it faster to level, im just saying they should make it more entertaining, maybe make it an actual 3d gme where you can control your pokemon in fights instead of just taking turns.
That probably won't change, they are already very popular with the current formula, maybe turn based games just aren't your thing
I play Warmachine, a turn-based tabletop game, and i thoroughly enjoy it. I guess i just went of track and mentioned something that had no link to my original statement. Basically what im trying to say is that the pokemon games are fine turn based but the execution isn't very good or entertaining, its just being recycled, but i guess the young'uns that are actually meant to be watching the show or playing the game wouldn't have played or watched earlier games or seasons, so i guess the makers think they can just go on recycling the whole thing without adding much on...
I don't really buy that considering so many people still love the pokemon games regardless of their like/dislike of the show, love how it's combat works, and whats with the "without adding much on," In every release they have added a completely new area and entire gigantic cast of new pokemon, they went back and redid a few with leaf green/fire red and heart gold/soul silver but they added tons of content to those, the newest games actually have a played out story with villains that doesn't end midway through the gym leaders
Well i never picked up the latest game because the pokemon all look.... stupid. And well i expected it to just be another recycling with different looking gym leaders and baddies... Other people will enjoy it but i can't. After sapphire and the reboots of red and green it just went downhill for me. And the only reason i enjoyed sapphire was because of treeko and the bird pokemon you can get near the 1st gym town (swallow or something).
I just get defensive when people declare a games style as boring as a matter of fact, as opposed to opinion, your points for not liking the games are very valid, and I actually agree with your thinking that the pokemon black/white pokemon look stupid... a lot of them do look stupid, they really really do:
Trash pokemon...really Nintendo? Really?!
 

chakra7777

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**Episode 1 was on today, they flat out call him 10yrs old in Pkmn B/W, i've been corrected**
*and the intros these days DO suck... i think*
Being right there when Pokemon hit North America (I was 5), I can't deny my nostalgia bias. I also stopped paying attention to the anime from the ending of Johto to sometime in the Diamond/Pearl series. Regardless, I think Pokemon has evolved from that time when we didn't notice a show's merits, we only saw: "Ahhhhh coulourful monsters...OoOOoOoo i want a Larvitar... i wanna BE a Scyther!!!" (just me?)

Sure Ash looks the same after 5 province-spanning adventures, and Team Rocket's blast-off count is awfully close to the # of episodes (too many). The show has its stale bits for sure, but has also taken noticeable strides forward. Well, it took 4 seasons for Team Rocket to evolve from "lovable goofs" to "actually criminal" and I saw it mentioned so I won't elaborate, but it's certainly refreshing. I find Ash's voice has become more tolerable since the original ULTRA high-pitched one of the 1st couple series. In D/P and B/W, he still sounds raspy, but more adult and I don't find it grating, not like when re-watching old ones. I see comments that he is still 10 after all these years, i didn't pick that up from the show. So they havn't drawn him looking much different, the voice and actual events in the show (assuming an on-foot pkmn adventure taking i dunno... 6 months...with 6 months off so him Mom doesn't die of loneliness) it wouldn't make him any older than 15-16 now, making his appearance reasonable. Lastly, if Ash kept his team after each Journey, the show would lose any sort of pacing. It'd have gotten older a lot quicker if Ash had just beefed up his original team, challenging all these new gyms designed for aspiring trainers with his lvl 100 Charizard and Pikachu combo (THAT would be a double battle!!). The show lives on because of the reboots, and all his pokemon we've seen get to go live on a farm with his mom and Prof. Oak after their time in the spotlight. (Sooooo much better than's the game perception of them all stored in a tiny PC box, stuck in Pokeball limbo *shudders* -_-)

No more paragraphs like that ._." (Still reading?)

The plot will always retain the same formula, but i believe they've done a commendable job given the same template to work from every season. No longer is it guaranteed that the protagonist always wins, or that there's even a purely happy ending. From time to time Ash will lose to a novice trainer or important gym fight and i rarely expect it (you usually expect some awesome comeback). It's more interesting than if he won all the time, it leaves time to reflect and grow. Dawn loses her final contest (after all that) to a friend and Ash loses in the Semifinals to some dick with a full legendary team (realistic... can anybody else relate?) Both endings were far more effective that victories, i felt. I was most pumped to see Ash fell 2 legendaries and lose in that whole series. His major victories being personal ones (like beating Paul and FRIENDSHIP.. yay). Personally i'm eager to see how he fairs in B/W league.

The point i'm trying to form is that show doesn't suck if you give it a chance. Focusing on all the plot holes of a children's TV show is gonna leave you with quite a list, no doubt, but you could do the same to so many others. But you focused on mine, and got my attention, good show. T'was fun to express my thoughts on something i care about. I'm not much of a forum guy, but thanks for reading.
 

chakra7777

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Have you been keeping up with his latest pokemon captures? They still maintain personalities and quirks. Just going from B/W's Pokemon.

Tepig- okay, didn't see the episode... it's just adorable
Oshawatt- eager to prove itself, clumsy
Snivey- a bit of a loner, didn't want to be caught
Pidove- uhm... 1st Unova pkmn! Whoo!!
Sewaddle- Wasn't he a bit of an asshole too?

That's as much as memory can serve me.

I just wish they'd stop rubbing it in our faces that ASH can catch all 3 starters in every continent and WE CAN'T.
 

chakra7777

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Have you been keeping up with his latest pokemon captures? They still maintain personalities and quirks. Just going from B/W's Pokemon.

Tepig- okay, didn't see the episode... it's just adorable
Oshawatt- eager to prove itself, clumsy
Snivey- a bit of a loner, didn't want to be caught
Pidove- uhm... 1st Unova pkmn! Whoo!!
Sewaddle- Wasn't he a bit of an asshole too?

That's as much as memory can serve me.

I just wish they'd stop rubbing it in our faces that ASH can catch all 3 starters in every continent and WE CAN'T.
 

Dizeazedkiller

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Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
Furioso said:
Dizeazedkiller said:
As a side note the games are bad to. I enjoy them up until i get all my 6 main pokemon to lvl 20 and then i cbf grinding them any higher. I'm not saying they should make it faster to level, im just saying they should make it more entertaining, maybe make it an actual 3d gme where you can control your pokemon in fights instead of just taking turns.
That probably won't change, they are already very popular with the current formula, maybe turn based games just aren't your thing
I play Warmachine, a turn-based tabletop game, and i thoroughly enjoy it. I guess i just went of track and mentioned something that had no link to my original statement. Basically what im trying to say is that the pokemon games are fine turn based but the execution isn't very good or entertaining, its just being recycled, but i guess the young'uns that are actually meant to be watching the show or playing the game wouldn't have played or watched earlier games or seasons, so i guess the makers think they can just go on recycling the whole thing without adding much on...
I don't really buy that considering so many people still love the pokemon games regardless of their like/dislike of the show, love how it's combat works, and whats with the "without adding much on," In every release they have added a completely new area and entire gigantic cast of new pokemon, they went back and redid a few with leaf green/fire red and heart gold/soul silver but they added tons of content to those, the newest games actually have a played out story with villains that doesn't end midway through the gym leaders
Well i never picked up the latest game because the pokemon all look.... stupid. And well i expected it to just be another recycling with different looking gym leaders and baddies... Other people will enjoy it but i can't. After sapphire and the reboots of red and green it just went downhill for me. And the only reason i enjoyed sapphire was because of treeko and the bird pokemon you can get near the 1st gym town (swallow or something).
I just get defensive when people declare a games style as boring as a matter of fact, as opposed to opinion, your points for not liking the games are very valid, and I actually agree with your thinking that the pokemon black/white pokemon look stupid... a lot of them do look stupid, they really really do:
Trash pokemon...really Nintendo? Really?!
I played pokemon black. I take it back, its a great game. Why? Emolga. Fucking EMOLGA.