Has WoW met its potential match?

[viranimus]

Now, about cutscenes and cinematics, here is where your clunking.

The majority of WoW players don't like that. The big, massive groups. The throng of the players? They hit accept without reading the quest and used Quest helper to micro manage there way through the game. The majority of the WoW fan base doesn't WANT dialogue matrix's. The majority don't WANT cutscenes. I have seen guilds that say straight out "IF you don't skip the Arthas death cutscene you are disqualified from all loot."

Stuff like that? The WoW players don't want. Have no desire for.

ToR is a single player game at heart, that's what I am getting from most of the stuff i heard.


Cut scenes and Dialogue just slows down a WoW players exp to time ratio, and they wouldn't like it.

Edit:... I'm sorry if any of that sounds aggressive... it really isn't meant to be....

First and foremost, Not agressive. I think were just bantering on a subject. Not every disagreement online is a flame war.

I would like to clarify my statement. The notion of cutscenes and dialog matrix. I might have been taken better had I emphasized the word IF in that. This gets into a lot of Ifs really. If ToR gains alot of popularity, with as much as they have pumped the emphasis on story up, that very well could be a large contributing factor. If ToR starts to cut in on WoWs action, and If that was one of the major elements driving people to ToR then it seems logical given that if it drew players away from WoW in exodus, they might try to emulate it in order to woo them back. If they were to do that, would they really want to rebuild the world yet again to accomodate that? If they do its out of a reactionary position, which would invariably leave them behind the curve, trying to catch up. Im not saying that it has to be story or dialogue that would cut into WoWs player base, but if there is anything that draws people away, doesnt it seem likely that there would at least be a desire to capitalize on a convention that lured people away from them?

I would say this on the notion of WoW players. While I do respect a large portion of wows player population is as you described, I think there is also a large portion of the player population who DO want story and dialogue, and play wow simply because it is the closest thing to the notion of what they would want out of MMO gaming. I mean, consider your example, that a guild had to make a rule denying people loot for watching a cut scene. If they didnt want the narrative, there wouldnt have been a need to make a rule for it. Not everyone who plays WoW is into the raiding mentality.

There is a large part of the MMO market, who do not play WoW. Theres a large part of the market who have played MMOs in the past, but have given up disillusioned because of the MMO ideology that raiding is what MMOs are for, to which WoW sent into overdrive.

I say this after watching the extra credits video regarding the future of MMOs, and what well may be in the works is a division of the market and MMO classification. ToR with its story elements might well be the first emergence of a game worthy to be considered a role playing game as it mirrors offline role playing games with its focus on narrative and character building, Where as WoW really has never fit into the mold of a role playing game coming from an RTS background, and might be better classified as an MMOAFG (MMO Adventure Fantasy game)((EDIT: Yes I started with MMOFAG but I saw that and realized that seemed derogatory and insulting which is not what Im going for)

None the less... it really doesnt matter. Im all up for speculation, but until we actually see what occurs, thats all this really is. It is fun to wonder. Will Wow die? no, Is wow going to dwindle in popularity? Yes Is that going to be soon? Not really. Is it a prerequisite that it has to be another blizzard property that "kills" wow, absolutely not. The only one who can kill WoW, is blizzard and really the only way they can do it, is stop supporting it.

 

[Nouw]

Sure, Starwars is big. But it won't kill WoW.

 

[Kennian]

Umm... Blizz has NEVER made a rpg.... 2 rts's and a few action games, that's it... Wow not withstanding anyway

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

Farmville already killed WoW.

Seriously.

Yeah, that's a good point. It appeals to the casual gamer, just like Nintendo.

 

[Cyrax987]

Star Wars certainly does have the fanbase to potentially beat out WoW, but I'd say Guild Wars 2 is the bigger contender.

As much I like Guild Wars and I'm looking forward to Guild Wars 2, I can't really seeing it being the bigger contender since its still relatively unknown to a lot of people. But I might be wrong.

Post WoW the only one I can think of is Guild Wars. That's all I ever hear about. I can name plenty of pre WoW RPGs, but since WoW it's World of Warcraft and Guild Wars. Sure there's DDO, but I figure I hear about that since I play D&D.

True considering I was playing Guild Wars before I got into WoW so I guess it makes sense then.

 

[MMETEORAGA1994]

I'm convinced after the failed promises by 'Age of Conan' and 'Warhammer Online' to violently murder World of Warcraft with a shovel and send its remains down river in a sack, there will never be a World of Warcraft 'killer'.

The Old Republic would have the best chance at beating it, but the install base of WoW is so large and devoted that even though some will toil in ToR for awhile (and some might even quit WoW outright) the majority will stay indifferent. Especially since ToR is targeting itself towards more traditional RPG lovers like myself. I think both will co-exist comfortably for some time.

 

[Eumersian]

I always thought that WoW met its match with Guild Wars, because most people I know would much rather play a less expansive game for free than a bigger game for $X per month.

 

[Mr. Anonymous]

The only thing that will kill WoW, is WoW itself

 

[Lerxst]

Honestly, I don't think anything less than World of StarCraft has the power to stop the beast that WoW has become.

People said that about Ultima Online...

OT: SW:TOR has several things up its sleeve.

1) Fan base, fan base and more fan base! We're talking the fans of Star Wars, the fans of LucasArts and the fans of Bioware. That's a hell of a lot of fans for WoW to ignore.

2) Experience. Bioware has done this before with the other KOTOR games and people loved it. This will pretty much ensure the game play will be solid, even in single player areas. Blizzard had Warcraft which was essentially a 2d universe they had to create in 3d form from scratch.

3) LucasArts games have drawn a huge crowd and the Star Wars series developed by Bioware has the same thing going for it that Warcraft did when WoW was released - recognition.

4) Bioware isn't a fly-by-night developer that's going to run out of money like some of the other MMO developers have. They have deep pockets... very deep. They can learn from Blizzard's mistakes and then work to improve them, not just trail behind and copy them.

The final clue comes from Blizzad themselves. Blizzard finally released Starcraft 2. Innocent enough, sure. Think in terms of stock investments though. You invest all your money in one stock, you risk to lose it all; you invest in multiple stocks to keep your losses minimal. Blizzard now has a "backup" source of income that will help give them a boost just a few months before TOR will come out. Sound strategy, especially if they're expecting to lose many of their WoW subscribers.

 

[mkg]

Now, we all know how big World of Warcraft has become, and no other game has reached the population to create the worlds first online superpower besides it. But the new Star Wars: The Old Republic, seems to me like the kind of game that could be a competitor. It might work due to the huge Star Wars fan base, but would it have enough snuff to get a massive amount of players, or would it fail in the competition just like so many other games have?

Knights of the Old Republic in MMO form will fail. Argue if ya want, but a year from now it will be in the same place that Warhammer, LOTR, Age of Conan, Aion, Star Trek online and every other "WoW killer" is. Not because it's a star wars game, but because I feel they will not do a good job translating the single player experience into a multiplayer one. That, and only Star Wars Galaxies was ever able to make being a jedi feel special. When there's 30 different types running aroung, being a bounty hunter able to take one out one on one will feel stupid.

 

[mkg]

Honestly, I don't think anything less than World of StarCraft has the power to stop the beast that WoW has become.

People said that about Ultima Online...

OT: SW:TOR has several things up its sleeve.

1) Fan base, fan base and more fan base! We're talking the fans of Star Wars, the fans of LucasArts and the fans of Bioware. That's a hell of a lot of fans for WoW to ignore.

2) Experience. Bioware has done this before with the other KOTOR games and people loved it. This will pretty much ensure the game play will be solid, even in single player areas. Blizzard had Warcraft which was essentially a 2d universe they had to create in 3d form from scratch.

3) LucasArts games have drawn a huge crowd and the Star Wars series developed by Bioware has the same thing going for it that Warcraft did when WoW was released - recognition.

4) Bioware isn't a fly-by-night developer that's going to run out of money like some of the other MMO developers have. They have deep pockets... very deep. They can learn from Blizzard's mistakes and then work to improve them, not just trail behind and copy them.

The final clue comes from Blizzad themselves. Blizzard finally released Starcraft 2. Innocent enough, sure. Think in terms of stock investments though. You invest all your money in one stock, you risk to lose it all; you invest in multiple stocks to keep your losses minimal. Blizzard now has a "backup" source of income that will help give them a boost just a few months before TOR will come out. Sound strategy, especially if they're expecting to lose many of their WoW subscribers.

Yes, but you're looking at making an MMO from a single player RPG, translating the experience has never been done by Bioware before. The biggest hurdle in this is the fact that you can be a Jedi. In the SW universe, Jedis are superhuman. You should be able to jumo crazy high, force choke people, block fucking bullets, throw spaceshipes with your mind. How do you translate that without making literally EVERY class in the game a jedi. How will it make sense when you are ganked by a bounty hunter one on one? The experience of being in the SW universe will feel watered down. And the fan base? The fact they're using The Old Republic which should take place a good time before any of the movies, I don't even know if there are books of that or if they're just making stuff up. Won't feel very Star Wars to me. I think only the original SW Galaxies was close to getting it right. Hopefully they prove me wrong, but my spidey sense is tingling on this one.

 

[Danpascooch]

SW:TOR is the warning.

Guild Wars 2 is incoming hammer.

I hope this is true. If it were up to me, then Guild Wars 2 would destroy all subscription MMO's

I tried Guild Wars, yes it wasn't subscription, but that didn't matter to me, because it sucked.

I hated that game, I'm happy to pay $15 a month for something worth my money, than a one time charge for something I hate.

yes but GW was moree of a Co-op RPG while GW2 is a full fledge MMORPG, with an ever changing world (literaly) http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/dynamic-events/ your characters backstroy which isnt based on classes, http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/personal-stories/ your character personality changes http://www.arena.net/blog/personality-in-guild-wars-2 and effects how people look at you. No holy trinity, read more up at http://www.arena.net/blog/category/guild-wars-2

and http://www.arena.net/blog/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto (this one blew my mind...)

Considering how much I disliked the first game, I'm not going to believe these claims until I see them. I'm willing to believe the ToR claims because Bioware is cashing in trust it's been building with me for about a decade, but Guild Wars is gonna have to earn my trust back.

I admit, it would be great if these claims were true, I just simply can't believe them until they're actually in a released game.

 

[Adventurer2626]

If they have the money and the staying power they might. But Blizzard is a money-making machine. It's learned the secret to mass-producing win. I don't think we can realistically expect anyone to outcompete it. More likely we'll just be waiting it out. But if they do I will be among the first to sat "F*** YEA B*****!" I mean I have no problem with people playing WoW, I just don't want Blizzard stopping all forms of MMO innovation.

 

[viranimus]

Ok.. I honestly have to ask.

Did anyone actually look at games like Age of Conan, Guild wars, Aion, Star trek, LoTRO, DDO, Warhammer and honestly think they were going to be wow killers?

Even though I dont play MMOs much anymore, I have always tried to keep an eye on what is coming out.

Conan = out of date reference that surprisingly made its way into gaming.

Guild wars - New IP syndrome, Having to create a fanbase from the ground up. Might survive, but isnt going to hurt WoW.

Aion - Sure if you want to play something Asian in flavor, but wouldnt you rather have chinese food?

Star trek - Did anyone ever see this as anything but an completely unremarkable and average game trying to milk the trek franchise name?

LoTRO - You can only play as the good races?!?! WTF? How can you make a world of good vs evil and have it exist PvE?

DDO - Seriously unless you have Gygax tattooed on your genitals youve likely satiated any desire for Dungeons and dragons-esque experience either with existing MMOs or offline via something like Neverwinter nights.

Warhammer - niche game making its way to a saturated market, and trying to do so banking on predominantly one MMO convention in pvp.

I know that I never thought ANY of these were going to be wow killers, and honestly, I really didnt hear alot of people, except wow players who were desperate to jump ship, who thought they were.

Honestly, with the strength of the franchise in Star wars, The notions of KoTOR as being its genesis, And with the solidity of bioware pushing it, plus their deep pockets and commitment toward advertising, honestly this is the first real MMO that ive seen that could be the next killer app in MMOs. (I think Killer App might be a better term to use here than wow killer as it more accurately reflects the nature of it)

 

[Dana22]

SWTOR will be a pseudo-mmorpg, so no.

 

[Kagim]

First and foremost, Not agressive. I think were just bantering on a subject. Not every disagreement online is a flame war.

I know, i jsut get yelled a alot, am a nervouse fellow -_-...

I would like to clarify my statement. The notion of cutscenes and dialog matrix. I might have been taken better had I emphasized the word IF in that. This gets into a lot of Ifs really. If ToR gains alot of popularity, with as much as they have pumped the emphasis on story up, that very well could be a large contributing factor. If ToR starts to cut in on WoWs action, and If that was one of the major elements driving people to ToR then it seems logical given that if it drew players away from WoW in exodus, they might try to emulate it in order to woo them back. If they were to do that, would they really want to rebuild the world yet again to accomodate that? If they do its out of a reactionary position, which would invariably leave them behind the curve, trying to catch up. Im not saying that it has to be story or dialogue that would cut into WoWs player base, but if there is anything that draws people away, doesnt it seem likely that there would at least be a desire to capitalize on a convention that lured people away from them?

Ultimately? No. I don't think they would change the core of there game. While blizzard is changing things to make the game more life friendly, such as making it so you don't have to devote your life to it to progress. Direct emulation of another games ideas might very will be a literally nail.

I would say this on the notion of WoW players. While I do respect a large portion of wows player population is as you described, I think there is also a large portion of the player population who DO want story and dialogue, and play wow simply because it is the closest thing to the notion of what they would want out of MMO gaming. I mean, consider your example, that a guild had to make a rule denying people loot for watching a cut scene. If they didnt want the narrative, there wouldnt have been a need to make a rule for it. Not everyone who plays WoW is into the raiding mentality.

No not everyone, and don't get me wrong people will leave. However i am mostly disputing the people saying "6 million people are going to quit the game for ToR!!!"

That's silly. I am not saying your saying it, but that is more or less a direct quote.

There is a large part of the MMO market, who do not play WoW. Theres a large part of the market who have played MMOs in the past, but have given up disillusioned because of the MMO ideology that raiding is what MMOs are for, to which WoW sent into overdrive.

Then theres a small pocket of us who played galaxies and only went to WoW because after galaxies was gone it was the only game even close to what we lost... And not by much... *cough cough* Honestly I am not into raiding a whole lot, to much commitment is necessary from a video game. I miss chilling out on Tatooine with my friends Mimicy Gold and Rass Ravioli discussing our business plans in between stomping womp rats because Rass needed a few more Carbine experience so he could use his new gun.

I say this after watching the extra credits video regarding the future of MMOs, and what well may be in the works is a division of the market and MMO classification. ToR with its story elements might well be the first emergence of a game worthy to be considered a role playing game as it mirrors offline role playing games with its focus on narrative and character building, Where as WoW really has never fit into the mold of a role playing game coming from an RTS background, and might be better classified as an MMOAFG (MMO Adventure Fantasy game)((EDIT: Yes I started with MMOFAG but I saw that and realized that seemed derogatory and insulting which is not what Im going for)

Galaxies was a role playing game in its purest form. There was little NPC interaction, if any. People had to talk to people and everyone role played out of necessity. Yes I am gushing over Galaxies, but that's honestly cause I am kinda bumming on it right now and I mostly agree with you.

None the less... it really doesnt matter. Im all up for speculation, but until we actually see what occurs, thats all this really is. It is fun to wonder. Will Wow die? no, Is wow going to dwindle in popularity? Yes Is that going to be soon? Not really. Is it a prerequisite that it has to be another blizzard property that "kills" wow, absolutely not. The only one who can kill WoW, is blizzard and really the only way they can do it, is stop supporting it.

Pretty much, It just bugs me the weird delight people get from the idea of 'killing wow'. Its a game dammit. A video game, and there acting like the idea is getting them all hot and bothered...

Sorry for the images, but its irritating.

Honestly, I won't lie I am mildly biased against ToR. Not because i play WoW, but because I want my Galaxies skill menus and crafting interface back. When ToR was first announced they made it sound like they were going to bring back a similar system, then I was crushed when i learned its going to be another choose a class and grind it system. So i resumed watching from a far keeping an eye on FFXIV hoping this time they deliver a trade system that's actually good.

 

[Ghostkai]

As good as TOR looks, and as big of a fanbase that it has. (Like WAR, LOTRO etc. don't?) I don't think it will "kill" WoW. Steal a sizable number of players? Possibly, but will it retain them? That was a major issue with WAR.

Yes, TOR looks like a cracking game, and it's Bioware, so I have every bit of faith in them. However, have you all seen the awesomeness that is Cataclysm? Seriously, it looks incredible. So much so that I am reconsidering getting TOR and just sticking with WoW for Cata.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Didn't we say WoW might have met its match when Lord of the Rings online went live? I doubt this will hurt WoW too much.

And didn't we say SW:Galaxies would kill WoW?

And didn't we say Warhammer Online would kill WoW?

And didn't we say Aion would kill WoW?

And didn't we say (insert big title MMO here) would kill WoW?

The only way WoW will die is when Blizzard decides it has run its course and they want to do something different. The day the updates stop is the day WoW enters its twilight and something else will move in to take its place or the fan base will be divided amongst other MMOs, or the fanbase just gravitates to whatever new product Blizzard puts out.

 

[Pegghead]

Logically probably not, world of warcraft isn't just a game it's a worldwide social phenomenon.

I'll put it to you this way, my uncle, another uncle and my cousin used to all play, at family gatherings it ws all they'd talk about. In fact I remember in a visit to the old homestead in Croatia (i.e my great uncles house) they once excused themselves from the table at lunch to check out something on Thottbot. People have killed over the game, people have made real life bonds over the game, the fact that I used to play has given me some kind of otherwordly reputation, wow has sold cola, t-shirts, plushies, comics, conventions, figurines, laptop skins and even been subjected to parody in South Park, The Simpsons and even our resident Yahtzee's Mogworld.

In summary nothing short of a miracle is ever going to upturn that establishment, and a well designed mmorpg themed around a cult classic game based off a cult classic film series is as close as the gaming world is ever going to get to that miracle.