Have you heard of a "Homosexual Therapist?"

[orangeban]

It's two consenting adults doing something on their own time. None of our business

...

Oh, I'm refering to the therapy.

Spoiler

That goes two ways mi amigos.

Except that of the two (gay sex and "conversion therapy"), one is potentially mentally harmful. Guess which?

Pitty that it 'tis not YOU in this matter. What business do you have?

Ever heard of BDSM? That can be physically harmful ore mentally harmful. And yet, where are you trying to stop that? Oh right. It's something two adults wish to do and accept the consequences.

Let me reiterate this: You cannot have it both ways.

No, no, no, no, no. BDSM is not physically harmful and mentally harmful, if it is something has gone horribly wrong. Yes BDSM is about whips and bondage and all that stuff, but you don't mentally or physically harm people (and we're talking about long-term serious harm here, just to check).

Also, he encourages this view that homosexuallity is a choice, which, no offence to the OP, is a view that must be CRUSHED AND BURNED, as it is key to several arguments about hating homosexuality

 

[spartan231490]

I was driving home earlier and listening to the radio and the host was interviewing a guy who called himself a "Homosexual therapist." as I listened, he explained that when he was younger, he harbored "homosexual thoughts and feelings" and simly assumed he was gay. As the years went on and he got further into his schooling, he began to examine himself and came to realize that many of this thoughts and feelings came from various incidences during his childhood, such as being sexually absurd by an uncle, being closer to his mother instead of his father, etc. When he dealt with these issues, he found his homosexual tendencies disappeared and he's not been happily married for 30 years with 3 kids. As a result, he councils people who have unwanted gay feelings and helps them through any issues he they have that may be behind it.

To be fair, he did make a point to say that he is in no way condemning homosexuality and for people who choose to accept it and live that lifestyle, more power to them. His mission is to help those that do not want to be gay. And curiously, for that, he is reviled by the gay community. According to his own testimony, he has been described by them as the number one enemy of the gay movement (which I could believe).

It makes sense to me. I've never really bought into the argument that people are born homosexual. I don't think people are born anything other than human. That being said, I see homosexuality as a personal thing. What they do in their personal lives doesn't concern me and i don't think they should be condemned for it just like I shouldn't be condemned for my belief in God.


Do you think there is any meat to what he says? What are your feelings on this matter?

EDIT: Please excuse any typos in this, I'm on my iPad. I scanned for errors but I may not have caught them all.

If gay is a choice, then it doesn't have inherent validity and it would give credence to many anti-gay groups(personally, I wouldn't care if you fucked a goat in the privacy of your own home, so long as you stop bugging me about it for fucks sake), that's prolly why they are all up in arms. The whole, gay is a choice thing, seems to offend them for some reason.

 

[Mechanix]

Yeah. I'm going to say he was simply confused and has always been straight.

As for myself, I tried to not be gay, and those were some of the worst years of my life. I hate these people who say they can stop you being gay, as I see it you either are, or your not. If you are, repressing it is one of the worst things you can do.

But that's exactly what he's saying he's trying to help people with. He knows he isn't the only one out there confused about whether they're gay or not, and he's trying to help them. The gay community needs to understand that some people who think they're gay, really aren't gay, and are simply compelled to homosexual thoughts. Yes, it happens.

I'm not saying it doesn't, and I have no problem with those people being "helped" as it were if they are really confused and worried about their thoughts. What I was meaning is that there are those who claim that they can "cure" homosexuality, and the way the op says he talks, this therapist , un-intentionality I'd think, also sounds like that. And it is those people I take issue with.

Ok, that sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, people like this guy are bogged down by religious nuts who believe homosexuality is a choice. I think it's fair we make an effort to distinguish between the two.

 

[Jacco]

Edit: and could we get a name for this dude? If he's both an "gay therapist" and the number one enemy of the gay community then chances are I've read something debunking his crap.

Yes, I will look for it now.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

It's two consenting adults doing something on their own time. None of our business

...

Oh, I'm refering to the therapy.

Spoiler

That goes two ways mi amigos.

Except that of the two (gay sex and "conversion therapy"), one is potentially mentally harmful. Guess which?

Pitty that it 'tis not YOU in this matter. What business do you have?

Ever heard of BDSM? That can be physically harmful ore mentally harmful. And yet, where are you trying to stop that? Oh right. It's something two adults wish to do and accept the consequences.

Let me reiterate this: You cannot have it both ways.

In that case, one sends an incorrect message about what sexuality is, which is harmful to an entire community.

S&M is in no way mentally harmful by the way.

Just to add.
Nor is it physically harmful.
Yes it can be painful, but it doesn't cause any lasting harm or damage if done properly.

 

[Cakes]

Which community? GLBT? You've still not answered my question. How is this anyone else's business other than the two adults involved? I hear that argument ad nausem and I agree with it. But it's a double edged sword.
Because it "sends the wrong message"? That's enough to start prying into peoples lives? Jeebus!

Yes, the LGBT community. It becomes the business of everyone else when it supports homophobic views.

It's two consenting adults doing something on their own time. None of our business

...

Oh, I'm refering to the therapy.

Spoiler

That goes two ways mi amigos.

Except that of the two (gay sex and "conversion therapy"), one is potentially mentally harmful. Guess which?

Pitty that it 'tis not YOU in this matter. What business do you have?

Ever heard of BDSM? That can be physically harmful ore mentally harmful. And yet, where are you trying to stop that? Oh right. It's something two adults wish to do and accept the consequences.

Let me reiterate this: You cannot have it both ways.

In that case, one sends an incorrect message about what sexuality is, which is harmful to an entire community.

S&M is in no way mentally harmful by the way.

Just to add.
Nor is it physically harmful.
Yes it can be painful, but it doesn't cause any lasting harm or damage if done properly.

O.K.

 

[AnkaraTheFallen]

Yeah. I'm going to say he was simply confused and has always been straight.

As for myself, I tried to not be gay, and those were some of the worst years of my life. I hate these people who say they can stop you being gay, as I see it you either are, or your not. If you are, repressing it is one of the worst things you can do.

But that's exactly what he's saying he's trying to help people with. He knows he isn't the only one out there confused about whether they're gay or not, and he's trying to help them. The gay community needs to understand that some people who think they're gay, really aren't gay, and are simply compelled to homosexual thoughts. Yes, it happens.

I'm not saying it doesn't, and I have no problem with those people being "helped" as it were if they are really confused and worried about their thoughts. What I was meaning is that there are those who claim that they can "cure" homosexuality, and the way the op says he talks, this therapist , un-intentionality I'd think, also sounds like that. And it is those people I take issue with.

Ok, that sounds reasonable. Unfortunately, people like this guy are bogged down by religious nuts who believe homosexuality is a choice. I think it's fair we make an effort to distinguish between the two.

Agreed. I'm sure he is a perfectly fine person, who is trying to help those genuinely confused, but he is overshadowed by those trying to make everyone conform to how they think everyone should be.

 

[Torrasque]

Ok, fascinating.
If I were to follow this guy's logic, I should spend my life helping others quantify their existence, and making them feel fully human.
But I'm not going to, because that is a very silly line of reasoning.

If anything, this guy should not help others, because he had a fucked up childhood.

being closer to his mother instead of his father, etc.

I love both my parents, but am definitely closer to my mom than my dad. That doesn't mean anything, its just that I get along better with my mom.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

If people want to be "cured", fine. If they wanna be gay, fine.
I think most people will find they don't have much choice, but if some people can affect their sexuality by therapy, who are we to judge them for such a decision?
Who gives a shit?

 

[SnowyGamester]

I sort of agree with OP...no reason for all the hate on this guy, he is just helping people who don't like being gay, which is fair enough since I'm sure there are plenty of gays that don't like how they are (I only know one gay guy and he struggled with it for a while). People aren't necessarily born gay, it is likely the result of external influences as they grow up, so it probably isn't impossible to influence them into being straight. Whether or not this guy's therapy can accomplish this isn't possible to tell due to lack of information, but as long as he isn't shoving jesus into people or convincing them to be straight when they were perfectly happy as they were then I don't see how it could hurt.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

If people want to be "cured", fine. If they wanna be gay, fine.

Who gives a shit?

You deserve this sir.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

And from his point of view, he is helping people. If someone genuinely does not want to be gay, then why should they be forced to be? We don't tell transgender people that they cannot under any circumstances be the opposite sex, do we?

Not the same thing. He's deluding people into thinking that they can change their sexual orientation and that's just cruel. He's an incompetant therapist, there are far more adept professionals who would actually help them through their issues and with time and patience will help the patients to accept themselves for who they are. Sex change operations are a viable option, you can't change your sexuality even if you want to. Also: 'The current consensus among scholars is that sexual orientation is not a choice.[5][6][7] No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, but research suggests that it is by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[8] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.[9]' That's from the Wikipedia article on Sexual orientation, it provides links to other websites that expand on this and I'm sure any psychological association will also affirm this. The important thing to emphasise hear is that the psychological and scientific community are in agreement that sexual orientation is not a choice.

 

[Glerken]

I think the gay community, or those sympathetic to the cause hate him for the implications of his therapy: homosexuality is curable. Also, I have heard of tons of "straight trainers" and "gay counseling"; there are numerous organizations (mostly religious) that offer camps and rehabilitation center for those stricken with the gay.

That being said, I see homosexuality as a personal thing. What they do in their personal lives doesn't concern me and i don't think they should be condemned for it just like I shouldn't be condemned for my belief in God.

I don't agree with people when they say that they shouldn't be condemned for their belief in god, at it is just that, their belief. I think that belief in god designates lower intelligence. Because a belief in god predicates everything on that entity; yes, laws of physics can still co-exist with god as it supposedly created them or whatever. But belief in god shows a level of certainty--audacity--that I'm just not willing to forgive. So, yeah, while I won't condemn you for your belief in god, I will, no matter what you do, hold you with some degree with contempt. Not that you should care, though.

Is your absolute belief that God doesn't exist much more different than mine in the affirmative? The implications are the same- it doesn't make you smarter or dumber, it makes you, you. Which is the same argument that gays use to justify their lifestyle to those who condemn them.

You're assuming that everyone who isn't of your religion has an absolute belief that your God doesn't exist. Absolute belief by definition is delusion.
An Atheist is without a belief in God, that doesn't mean they have absolute belief that there is no God.

But that's rather off topic as I agree with you that no one should be condemned for any of their beliefs or lifestyle choices.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Yes, the LGBT community. It becomes the business of everyone else when it supports homophobic views

WHY? It's a person's private life! You cannot have it both ways. Either private behavior can be other people's business, or it cannot be. Why does this bother you? Because it's a view you don't agree with?

Just to add.
Nor is it physically harmful.
Yes it can be painful, but it doesn't cause any lasting harm or damage if done properly.

My point was that if done improperly, it can cause damage. But we still allow people to do it. Same with this. It's argued it can mentally hurt the people involved, but they've no proof that it will

If people want to be "cured", fine. If they wanna be gay, fine.
I think most people will find they don't have much choice, but if some people can affect their sexuality by therapy, who are we to judge them for such a decision?
Who gives a shit?

See, this guy gets it!

You sir have won this thread, congrats, you win: A BRAND NEW CAR!!! ^^

I thank you, dear reader. I shall put it to good use.

 

[2ndblackjedi]

From what I've read, he doesn't seem to be setting out with the purpose of 'curing' homosexuality, but trying to give people an option if they want it. And isn't saying "You have to be gay and that's that" as bad as saying "You have to be straight and that's that"? Doesn't a person have as much right to say they don't want to be gay as to say that they do?

 

[ShatterPalm]

Out of a mild curiosity, this wouldn't happen to be the same guy that's married to that Lunatic Michelle Bachman, would it?

 

[orangeban]

You know it just struck me that the chances that he is the "number one enemy of the gay community" (which is a bullshit claim to start with, the "gay community" isn't some kind of city that has a bounty board or police force with a most wanted list) are pretty frickin' slim. I mean, with politicians, the WBC and famous people railing against gay people. So I seriously doubt he is the number one enemy.

 

[Giest4life]

Yes, it is. But for different reasons than you think.

Anything that I think is inherently superior to what you think. Why? Because of virtus dormitiva (the dormitive principle). The very fact that I'm thinking one thing and not the other makes what I think/thinking superior to the other. Subjectivity, that is the key to the entire thing.

I'm afraid I don't understand what you are getting at. Could you clarify?

Eh, that's a hard task, and I mean that. Also, if I come out pretentious or dickish, rest assured that I'm not trying to be, it's just I don't know any other way to frame it.

Epistemology is the study of knowledge i.e. what exactly counts as knowledge. There are two major schools of thought [sub](there are four, actually, there is the Kantian school and Nietzschean Perspectivism but I'm afraid I might traumatize you if I try to explain that) [/sub]: there is Cartesian (comes from Rene Descartes of "I think therefore I am" fame) and there is the Humean (comes from David Hume, Scottish philosopher/historian).

1. The Cartesian School believes in a priori knowledge i.e. knowledge derived from pure reason. Knowledge that is available to every single human given the ability to reason. This where most mathematicians and men of science believe in--this or Kant. This basically affirms objectivity; reality is a consistent state and only the perception of reality will differ but the ultimate Truth will not change, and with enough reasoning, we may be able to see the Truth. For most reasonable people, religious or atheist, this is what they believe. They believe in an ultimate Truth, a universe governed by a) God or b)Natural laws. This is where you fall in. You believe that there is a consistent reality and the "I" is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things because the Truth will not change (Laws of Physics, Logic, Geometry and etc.).

2. The Humean School. People from this spectrum are called empiricists i.e. those who believe in physical sensation being the only source of knowledge. This is also called being subjective [sub]Descartes is also, technically, subjective but for different reasons...irrelevant reasons.[/sub] The subject "I" is the single most important thing as "I" the only thing we can know. I am from the school of Nietzsche as it is more aligned with the Humean school. So, anything that "I" am thinking is infinitely more valuable than what you You are thinking because no matter what I do, "I" can never truly feel what You are thinking. And thus "I" am more important than you.


EDIT: Also, I just framed 2500 years of philosophical thought for you in less than 5 minutes. Please, please, read up on these things I mentioned yourself. There is an unholy amount of nuance in the things I mentioned.

EDIT#2: Humean and Nietzschean thought obliterate all claims of objectivity. Science, Math, Philosophy, Logic, and even the insanely common ideas like Cause and Effect are held to be entirely subjective [sub]Math, Logic, and Geometry are not considered "subjective" in the traditional understanding of the word; they are subjective because they are not real [/sub]. My apologies if this makes even less sense to you than before.

 

[orangeban]

Yes, the LGBT community. It becomes the business of everyone else when it supports homophobic views

WHY? It's a person's private life! You cannot have it both ways. Either private behavior can be other people's business, or it cannot be. Why does this bother you? Because it's a view you don't agree with?

The reason it bothers people is because him claiming that homosexuality can be changed is wrong. It is deluding, homosexuality is not a choice. Can't be bothered to link it because I'm lazy but most major psychological institutes agree. By encouraging the view that it can be changed, it lends credability to homophobic arguments based on that idea.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

And from his point of view, he is helping people. If someone genuinely does not want to be gay, then why should they be forced to be? We don't tell transgender people that they cannot under any circumstances be the opposite sex, do we?

Not the same thing. He's deluding people into thinking that they can change their sexual orientation and that's just cruel. He's an incompetant therapist, there are far more adept professionals who would actually help them through their issues and with time and patience will help the patients to accept themselves for who they are. Sex change operations are a viable option, you can't change your sexuality even if you want to. Also: 'The current consensus among scholars is that sexual orientation is not a choice.[5][6][7] No simple, single cause for sexual orientation has been conclusively demonstrated, but research suggests that it is by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences,[8] with biological factors involving a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment.[9]' That's from the Wikipedia article on Sexual orientation, it provides links to other websites that expand on this and I'm sure any psychological association will also affirm this. The important thing to emphasise hear is that the psychological and scientific community are in agreement that sexual orientation is not a choice.

No, it says its effected by BOTH environmental and genetic factors, therefor, yes, it can be a choice. Take a psychology class, thats one of the first things you learn. Nothing about a person or their personality is strictly unchangeable. It's like tanning. They were BORN white, they don't want to be that shade, ergo they change it. And before you begin, yes, they are the same, they can both damage you mentally if done wrong and physically if done REALLY wrong, like anything in life.