Hey Dragon, You Can Have Her: Halo - Combat Evolved

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NewClassic_v1legacy

Bringer of Words
Jul 30, 2008
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I disagree with a lot of what you've said, and I'll take some time to disassemble it. The problem is that Halo is one of those games. Given how long this discussion has made the rounds, it's pretty likely that "angry fanboy" opinions will crop up regardless of how you vote, or how logical your breakdown. So, keep in mind, you've stirred a hive with this one.

I agree that there's a lot of weapon imbalance in the original Halo, but not to the stunning degree in which you've stated. The pistol is a very solid weapon at a medium range, which is where a lot of FPS multiplayer match-ups end up. When it comes down to the business up-close and long-range, there's a different story to be told. When it came down to vehicles, the "useless" energy weapons became powerhouses, trumping their bullet-bound brother by leaps and bounds. Anyone who's squared off with a Banshee on foot knows that while the shotgun is really good against certain vehicles, it's not good to be that close to the blood-splattered plate on the front of fast-moving vehicles.

Beyond that, you're making a bit of an unfair comparison. Game reviewing is a careful balancing act of "I've played this before" and "Oh, this is new enough to be awesome." You strike me as a PC gamer, someone of enough pedigree to have enjoyed Doom for what it did for gaming back in the day, and how it's changed now that we have true 3D engines. Although this may be a long-running beef I have with gamers in general. Halo may be a less-good game because we have multiplayer powerhouses like Modern Warfare (or MewTwo), but that doesn't make it a bad game. It's imperfect, has flaws, but it's still fun regardless of that.

There's a tricksy line to walk, but it's no more important to credit Halo for what it did well. It was a solid console-FPS, something that was almost universally accepted as impossible. It can't stand up to the straight-up Titans of the industry, but that's like saying Sirloin steak sucks because it's less tasty than Filet Minon. (There's an opinion, but stick with the analogy.) It doesn't make it bad, by any standard, just less excellent.

On it's own merits, as you've admitted for first time players, it's still a good game. It's not the best, it's often not even great, but the fact that there's enough popularity for it says something for it. It's not marketed to a casual market, so it doesn't have a non-gamer army to defend it, it's not pre-packaged with systems so people had to go out and get it originally. It's worth mentioning alone that the game sold. Doesn't mean it's "BEST GAEM EVAR LOL EDU!", but it does mean it handles itself well enough.

If you played it through, and even once caught yourself enjoying it, I'd argue that you're slanting yourself to counter the over-adundance of fan-bile that comes from titles like these. What's wrong with casually enjoying a game a bit?

I wouldn't give this one to the dragon just yet, but I also wouldn't fight for my life to save it either. It's a middle-ground game. It did what it did well, and didn't innovate a whole lot. As much as I'd like to blast it for not being as big as people make it out to be, I can't because it didn't ask for all the jerks slapping each other about it. It just did what it does, did it well enough to be fun, and that's enough for me.
 
Nov 7, 2009
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I've only ever played Halo 3, which people had been raving about when I got it. I plugged in, played it, and, wel, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was a good game and I thought the vehicle sections and the Scarab destroying was brilliant. But it wasn't amazing.
I think it and Modern Warfare 2 are incredibly overrated.
 

Treefingers

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Aug 1, 2008
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SavingPrincess said:
Treefingers said:
I disagree with you on pretty much all counts.
I suspected as much from the general public, would be nice for you to share how.

I was hoping that we'd be able to look at the game for what it was rather than through rose-colored glasses, but maybe I hope too much.
Please, don't assume that i'm "looking through rose-coloured glasses".

Well if you'd like me to go into an explanation, it's pretty much restating your opinions and saying that i disagree with them. To be fair, they are just my opinions. But only in response to your own; most of which i think are petty exaggerations.

Movement.

Yeah ok, i can see what you're getting at, but my running speed never bothered me tbh. You never run slower than what the gameplay demands of you. The only time it's bothered me is after switching from COD and not having a run button. But i get over that pretty fast.

You also conveniently leave out vehicle sections, which i admit, can be gimmicky and annoying in some games. But Halo:CE is one of the few games that manages to pull it off quite well imo.

Shooting.

The pistol was unbalanced, i'll give you that. That's no secret. And yeah, the auto aim is a problem that many console shooters are going to have. But the rest of your comments are a bit petty. Just cos it doesn't follow a start with crappy weapon, eventually progress and get better weapon system doesn't make it bad or unbalanced. There was a good range of weapons, most which can be useful if used correctly. For example, you take a stab at the needler, but the needler was useful against elites as you didn't have to bring down their shields before taking them out. Particularly useful on higher difficulties.

Weapons.

Worst section you have written.

SavingPrincess said:
the weapons in Halo are totally unbalanced making most of them fall to the point of "useless."
I disagree. Not if you use them properly. See my previous point.

SavingPrincess said:
More important however, was the developer's decision to go for a more "realistic" (read: simple) feel by limiting the player to two weapons at once.
Probably not for realism as much as it is to fit into the constraints of a console shooter and to mould into the type of gameplay they were after. If they wanted realism, they probably wouldn't have SET THE GAME IN THE FUTURE OR IN SPACE.

SavingPrincess said:
While not only dumbing down the gameplay, this severely breaks the "super-powered space-marine" aesthetic.
Again, i disagree. It adds an extra tactical element to the gameplay, which i personally thoroughly enjoyed. It meant you had to think ahead more.

SavingPrincess said:
However, the one reason that holding ten weapons in Halo would have been impossible is that the game literally only had eight weapons.
A petty and unnecessary complaint. You'd like more weapons... ok cool, so what? You'd probably just complain that you don't like those weapons either. Admittedly, eight is a relatively small number, but it's enough. Each of them are different in their own way, no double ups or redundancies. Too many weapons is more likely to render some useless. This would be particularly annoying when running around trying to find the two weapons you'd like only to stumble upon only to find a wealth of shit you don't need. Again, it fits with their style of gameplay, which i liked.

SavingPrincess said:
Also, why do those batteries only last for approximately ten seconds of concentrated fire, and overheat after five?
Balancing.

Level Design.

In my opinion, this is Halo:CE's biggest failure. Although i found myself rather immersed in the world they created... the repeated copy-pasted environments were awful. The 'Library' level ranks rather highly on my list of worst levels in any game ever.

(I agree that the music is something that Halo does well though.)

Multiplayer.

I kind of agree with you on this one. It's definitely overrated, and fails somewhat in comparison to other FPS multiplayer modes.

That said, i had a lot of fun playing CTF on Blood Gulch. I think that Halo's success when it comes to the use of vehicles needs to be noted too when it comes to multiplayer. Storming your opponents base in a full Warthog and a Ghost at your side was a load of fun. Imo, large team games on an open vehicle based level such as this is a brilliant success for Halo:CE, even compared to other FPS games. On the smaller maps however, it falls short.

You only briefly mention the co-op mode too, which is unfair. The Halo series has done co-op better than many other titles.

There.

Again, i'm not saying it's amazing. I'm not a fanboy. It definitely gets too much praise, but imo it also cops an undeserved amount of hate in backlash.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
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NewClassic said:
It's a middle-ground game. It did what it did well, and didn't innovate a whole lot. As much as I'd like to blast it for not being as big as people make it out to be, I can't because it didn't ask for all the jerks slapping each other about it. It just did what it does, did it well enough to be fun, and that's enough for me.
I said very early on in the review that it was "average" and the confusion was over why people had bought into it in such a big way. I've owned every console since the NES (save for the SEGA Saturn), so I am a console gamer at heart, but yes, also play games on PC. It's interesting that by saying you disagree with most of what I said, in effect, what you did was paraphrase it...

It's not a "bad" game, it's an "average" game that did a lot for/to the industry.

Thank you however for actually reading the review before you commented. Cheers.
 

Treefingers

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Aug 1, 2008
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SavingPrincess said:
Swagymanabz said:
no just no... so many things wrong... so many opinions being presented as facts... just NO!
-btw halo was the first REAL fps on consoles and stuff like the 2 weapons had to make you think
also if you could carru 10 weapons then u would be moving even slower since that is a complaint of yours which i have never had
First off, what opinions are presented as facts?
Pretty much your entire review.
 

SavingPrincess

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Treefingers said:
-supersnip-
I never had to -use- the weapons properly... so while you 'could' use them in a more 'smart' way I suppose, it wasn't necessary to beat the game on the hardest difficulty, so that in effect, renders most weapons "useless," as in they are not needed to be used. Maybe I should have said "unnecessary" instead?

There's nothing tactical about choosing between your two weapons when you really only need one.

A concrete design of poor game design is when a developer has to choose between balancing and immersion. The entire "covenant" side of weaponry did not make sense, even in a fake world. Which also highlighted the unbalancing of the entire lineup of weapons in general.

Setting an aspect of gameplay within the console "constraints" is a direct jab at the console players out there... why does a game need to be "constrained" to be played on a console? Does that not completely disintegrate the legitimacy of console shooters in their entirety?

Thanks for reading and replying by the way!
 

FactualSquirrel

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Dec 10, 2009
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I'm sorry dude, but I almost completely disagree with you, but that's just my opinion versus yours, and neither of us can change the other's.

However, I will explain one thing to you: it was so popular because it was Goddamn fun to play with a friend when you had nothing else to do. Nothing more.
 

Brotherofwill

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Jan 25, 2009
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Well I haven't played Halo: CE, so I can't really comment. One thing left to do is point out the benchmarks in your categories for me personally. It doesn't really make too much sense that you compare console shooters openly with PC shooters, but your analysis was still well written and amusing. As for movement: Faster isn't always better. While it's always fun to go fast, if a slow pace is well implemented it can help increase immersion. If said immersion was never achieved to begin with (like in your case of trying H:CE for example) then it probably just annoys you.

So here are the categories and my winners (note: Achievements are seen relative to when they came out and what level technology was at).


Movement:

1. Doom. Fast, accurate amazing.
2. Quake. Fast, a little confusing, but jumping is awesome.
3. Timesplitters 2: DIfferent characters have different speeds. Never feels like a chore.


Shooting:

1. Doom. Yes, you can't look up or down, but the way the levels are design and the quickness of your trigger button make up for that. It's a blast shooting shit.

2. Timesplitters 2. Amazing accuracy. Took everything from GoldenEye (limited, but usefull autoaim, good weapons for appropriate levels) and improved on it for dual-analogue stick control.

3. GoldenEye. While on today's standards the game is essentially broken, it was so good back then. Using an AK to shoot hordes of siberian guards has never felt so good, the auto aim was excellent for that time.


Weapons:

1. Timesplitters 2: Honestly go play that game. Weapons are appropriate for each time period and still compete when mixed with other periods. It's beautiful.
2. Serious Sam: Yes.
3. Doom: Chainsawing has never felt so good.

(Honourable mention to Painkiller)


Level Design :
1. GoldenEye: The toilet level was so accessible and beautifully designed it wins by default.
2. Timesplitters 2: Many time periods, endless levels. Smooth progression through story and endlessly fun in multiplayer.
3. Half Life: Still a benchmark of blending sprawling open worlds with tense corridors.


Multiplayer
(I had to split this up to console/PC cause there are just so many):

Console:

1. Timesplitters 2: Still the benchmark. Fun in abundance.
2. GoldenEye: Toilet level.
3. Turok 2: Braingun and the absolutely excellent "Catch a monkey" mode made this so much fun back in the day.

PC:
1. Team Fortress 2: Frantic fun.
2. L4D: Tense and thrilling. For all I have to critique the game, it still held up very well.
3. Quake: Jump, jump, 'Boom-Shaka-Laka!'
 

Pandalisk

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Jan 25, 2009
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I have a huge love for Halo: Combat Evolved
It was the First game i had ever played and i enjoyed it like crazy, ahh the memories.
 

Brotherofwill

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Jan 25, 2009
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SteelStallion said:
At the same time, I think Half Life was fantastic, Shadow Of the Colossus was way ahead of it's time, Grim Fandago was one of the greatest video games ever, and that a certain game called "Giants: Citizen Kabuto" deserved a lot of attention and a sequel because it was fantastic.
That passage was so exciting to read that a little bit of wee came out.
 

Gladion

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Jan 19, 2009
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I'm not going to comment on the game, even though other people have already pointed out how flawed your arguments are, I do not intend to defend Halo in any way.
I will comment on your review though. I can live with the fact you say it's 100% opinion-based (which makes it less a review and more a commentary, but nvm), but everything you write is mercilessly stretched out. You don't like the fact the game has only eight weapons, I get it. You can tell us that in one sentence, two if you want to throw in a joke, you don't have to dedicate an entire paragraph to that. You also don't just do that once or twice, you do it your entire review, stuff like that makes it a boring read.

It's also unappropriate to compare Halo's multiplayer (respectively the number of maps) to UT's and Q3's, because the latter two are pure multiplayer games. Might as well say Quake 3's single player "campaign" is worse than Half-Life's. Sure you're right, but what did you expect?

Okay, I will defend one thing though: You say the level designers were lazy at times and you're doing them injustice by that. You should keep in mind the Xbox desperately needed a system seller, and Halo was destined to be that one. Granted, I don't work at Bungie and I don't exactly know what really happened in those few months before release - but it's more likely the designers were just rushed by Microsoft than they would voluntarily not doing their best to make their baby as good as possible.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
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SteelStallion said:
What I'm trying to say here is: I don't fall into your implied (and completely false) stereotype.

Also, I'd bet more than a buck that if Halo never gained popularity and went mainstream, you'd like the game a lot more than you do now.
That wasn't to say that everyone who loved the game fell under that category, it said that if you fell under that category, you loved the game. Go re-read please.

Secondly... I played the game at launch, and thought, "this game is okay, but not as good as ___." So I doubt your supposition is accurate. I judged the game on its merits. That's how I looked at it... and after many hours playing games like Goldeneye 007, Quake III: Arena, Turok (in all it's foggy glory) and Unreal Tournament, I just wasn't impressed... why is that not okay?
 

Muffinthraka

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Aug 6, 2009
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Stop having a go at people for not reading the review if I defended every single point you made I would crash the internet.
Regarding;
SavingPrincess said:
Muffinthraka said:
I also compared it with Goldeneye 007... but okay. I wasn't complaining to the lack of a "run" button, I was talking about how it felt like you should always be moving faster than you were. I feel that my text-wallish reviews tend to make people not really read the entire review it seems.
Goldeneye was a different game to Halo. Halo was trying to recreate the fast-paced shooters like doom, Quake etc on a console, but due to the rection time of computer mice compared to thumbsticks the movement was slowed down. Although I don't honestly think the movement does feel slowed except in the case of jumping.
As for shooting and weapons, I feel the weapons are well balanced, most pc shooters (1995 to 2000) had a weapon for each number (1-9); a melee attack, a pistol, a shotgun, a machine gun, a rocket launcher, grenades, 2 energy or special weapons, and some kind of bfg. Halo had all of these but the bfg and also had a needler and sniper rifle.
In shooting halo forced you to consider the weapons to take; assault rifles and shotguns were vital for taking out flood but had short range. Pistols had infinite range but low stopping power, rocket launchers were powerful but had low ammo capacity and plasma weapons were effective against covenent. Needlers were good against elites but useless against flood and cloaked elites. It left behind the old thinking of as you went through the game you get slowly more powerful weapons.
Level design was excellent, with the two betrayals being my favourite and library being my least favourite. You made general complaints about the level designs so I don't really know how to defend them but I feel they made good use of theming and spectacular views and gave you the impression you were really in an alien place.
So, multiplayer, once again you compare a console to online play on pcs (which is going to be completely different. Halo was a great multiplayer game, the xboxwas my sisters console and we had 4 people playing at a time (including my parents). You comment that there was a lack of modes but there were a number of levels and specialist options and although there was no 1 shot kill there was rockets.

I'm not some kind of Halo fanboy (and I'm definetly not a microsoft fanboy) it was the first console shooter I ever played so maybe I'm biased but I think it was an excelletn game with a great story, Halo 2 wasn't (I've not paled Halo 3).
 

Treefingers

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SavingPrincess said:
Treefingers said:
-supersnip-
There's nothing tactical about choosing between your two weapons when you really only need one.
I guess that depends on how you play though. Some weapons worked better as a combination of the two, Shotty/Sniper (Short range/Long range) or Plasma Pistol/Pistol (Take Down shields/accurate headshot) or Assault Rifle/Rocket Launcher (Infantry/Vehicles) for example.

A concrete design of poor game design is when a developer has to choose between balancing and immersion. The entire "covenant" side of weaponry did not make sense, even in a fake world.
A fair point, for sure, when you think about it. Quite simply, i just have to disagree because i personally didn't find it jarring or immersion breaking at all.

Setting an aspect of gameplay within the console "constraints" is a direct jab at the console players out there... why does a game need to be "constrained" to be played on a console? Does that not completely disintegrate the legitimacy of console shooters in their entirety?
You could look at it like that, yes. But i disagree. Consoles have constraints, that's a given. It's unavoidable, but then, everything has constraints. I see it more as tailoring to consoles so that gamers can still have a quality gaming experience.

Thanks for reading and replying by the way!
You're welcome :)

SavingPrincess said:
Treefingers said:
Pretty much your entire review.
I'm pretty sure by the title and the fact that it's a review, my opinions are generally presented as opinions.
Fair call.
 

SavingPrincess

Bringin' Text-y Back
Feb 17, 2010
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Muffinthraka said:
I'm not some kind of Halo fanboy (and I'm definetly not a microsoft fanboy) it was the first console shooter I ever played so maybe I'm biased but I think it was an excelletn game with a great story, Halo 2 wasn't (I've not paled Halo 3).
You fall under the category that I explained in the first part of the review, so I totally understand why you feel the way you do. From that perspective I cannot argue with anything you've said, as if I were in your situation I would likely feel the same way... however Halo was not my first console shooter, or shooter in general. I appreciate that you feel the way you do, and do not fault you for it, but understand there might be a lack of perspective coming into play.
 

Snotnarok

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Nov 17, 2008
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The main reason Halo got so popular is because it was a competent console shooter that became a competent online console shooter, and there weren't many competing against it in the console world...Tribes? Yeah that sums up Halos competition on Console online FPS.

Furburt said:
Brotherofwill said:
First person snip
I totally agree with everything you've said. Those games you mentioned as your favourites are mine as well.

I think we can all agree that Timesplitters 2 is one of the best console FPS's ever made.
I should slap you Timesplitters doesn't deserve to be mentioned around any other game, because it's in a multiverse of it's own!
 
Apr 28, 2008
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Eh, I agree with you on most of the points. But remember, this was a launch title. And launch titles are rarely ever amazing.

And to try and explain why the multiplayer was so lackluster and din't include online play: Its because Microsoft told Bungie its xbox live service wouldn't be ready at launch, so there was no online system to support an online mode. At that point Bungie was even debating whether or not to even include a multiplayer mode.

If you want the short version, this was Bungie's first console game, and it was a launch title. They went from being a Mac/PC dev to a console dev fairly quickly, and couldn't do everything they wanted to do.

Looking back, yes it was far from perfect, but it was really all that console gamers really had.

Furburt said:
Brotherofwill said:
First person snip
I totally agree with everything you've said. Those games you mentioned as your favourites are mine as well.

I think we can all agree that Timesplitters 2 is one of the best console FPS's ever made.
Yes. Timesplitters 2 wins everything by default.