How did The Escapist's culture change so much?

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm glad for you, but I was born in '83, and have been gaming since I was 3. My experience throughout life was closer to Silentpony's than yours. I can't say I've internalized any of the specific events, but I do remember the sentiments.

Okay, so...here's a question for you. Given we have different people who grew up in different eras, all (presumably) openly "hard core" gamers, and none of us have comparable anecdotal experience, have you considered this is a case where correlation =/= causation? It is, after all, a pretty extravagant leap to get from "I was/am a gamer and have been bullied" to "Gamers are bullied". The former is an expression of experience, the latter is the type of victimhood narrative we are ostensibly opposed to around here.

Hell I got bullied for BEING DEPRESSED by a guy I roomed with in first year university (who was, perhaps ironically, also depressed). I never concluded that all depressed people were bullied.

Games, as the new kid on the block, tend to get treated dismissively by older media. There's no question about it. That has been changing for some time now, though, and gaming is now a multi-billion dollar industry as culturally pervasive and widespread as the film industry. Do we believe film buffs are bullied or mocked by society?

 

[Signa]

I'm glad for you, but I was born in '83, and have been gaming since I was 3. My experience throughout life was closer to Silentpony's than yours. I can't say I've internalized any of the specific events, but I do remember the sentiments.

Okay, so...here's a question for you. Given we have different people who grew up in different eras, all (presumably) openly "hard core" gamers, and none of us have comparable anecdotal experience, have you considered this is a case where correlation =/= causation? It is, after all, a pretty extravagant leap to get from "I was/am a gamer and have been bullied" to "Gamers are bullied". The former is an expression of experience, the latter is the type of victimhood narrative we are ostensibly opposed to around here.

Well, when I hear "gamers are bullied" I don't immediately think that literally all gamers are bullied, just that it's a common thing. I would still agree with the statement if I thought just a mere 30% of gamers experience bullying. I personally think at least until recently, the number would be closer to 80%. Gamers have typically been more socially awkward, which calls attention to them for being different. It's not so much the games as the person who plays the games. Even so, when you grow up seeing all the adults shouting about games rotting your brains and corrupting the youth, it's not hard to think it's the games themselves that are under attack.

I also balk at the current trend of "anti-bullying" that's been going around. It's like someone got the idea that bullying bullies was a good idea. Bullies are A) acting out because of some misery in their life, or B) calling out someone on their awkward behavior, usually immaturely, because we're talking about kids usually. Compassion is a better response than starting a "bullies suck!" slogan campaign.

Hell I got bullied for BEING DEPRESSED by a guy I roomed with in first year university (who was, perhaps ironically, also depressed). I never concluded that all depressed people were bullied.

I'M depressed too. I still would give my friends shit if they were depressed (mostly in a joking way). Still, it is a mental state that can be conquered or medicated away. I conquer mine all the time. Hmm, maybe I'm a bully?

Still, there isn't a stigma associate with depression. You aren't being bombarded with messages about depressed people being unworthy of love, or that it's just the devil possessing them, and you should stay away from depressed people. It would be a heavy leap to have that one guy make those comments at you, and then jump to that conclusion. I don't think it's unfair to start making concessions against your personal experience when you hear me, Silentpony, and the billion other nerds recount the tales of harassment they've had throughout their lives. It happens, and they think games are a common factor.

Games, as the new kid on the block, tend to get treated dismissively by older media. There's no question about it. That has been changing for some time now, though, and gaming is now a multi-billion dollar industry as culturally pervasive and widespread as the film industry. Do we believe film buffs are bullied or mocked by society?

No, but anyone can stare at a motion picture. Like, literally everyone does it. The only common factor between film buffs is that they have eyes and ears and maybe understand language. It's not like games where socially awkward people gravitate towards them.

 

[StatusNil]

Well, OP, I think what has happened in "gaming" discourse is that a certain cabal of people that had been steadily building a monopoly in the gaming media took the advice of some fringe agitators and decided to Wedge Issue us all into some sort of a culture war, anticipating a quick conquest. And they got the "war" they wanted, which has led to a creation of a major division and the hardening of attitudes on both sides this divide. This is visible on these forums because, unlike the majority of gaming sites and to their great credit, The Escapist didn't adopt viciously exclusionary practices to shut down conversation of these topics. This is a genuine commitment to facilitating intellectual exchange, as opposed to a creation of a complacent hugbox to ward off the cognitive dissonance produced by the contradictions of the hegemonic point of view. Unfortunately, the antagonisms fueled by partisanship obviously seep into these exchanges, like for example in this post:

Calgary Expo shuts down Honey Badger booth - Full of people outraged that a bunch of gamergate trolls were kicked out of Calgary Expo for trying to shit up panels

See that, expressing dismay that "people" would deign to have any concern for the treatment of vaguely humanoid monsters ("trolls"), who disturb civilized proceedings with their unsanitary behavior ("shit up panels")? I'd say the dehumanization going on here is a fitting example of the "coarsening" of the culture that we may bemoan, but hardly remain untouched by ourselves.

 

[Fox12]

snip

This is true, but I've been moderated before, and I certainly deserved it. I just think the sites been very accommodating, and it's a little bit ungrateful to claim that moderators are out to get you. I just don't know what they want from everyone. Of course, after reading that 8chan post about trying to get Escapist members banned, I'll admit I'm somewhat soured on the movement.

That's not entirely fair on my part, though, as some GG members have actually tried to be pretty civil.

It's not so much that we are being targeted, as much as those who are being uncivil towards us being given unjustified leeway, with one obvious example being the allowance of spamming of accusations of our defending child pornography. Let's be frank, if 95% of the other users on this site did the same thing, directly accusing users of defending child pornography, they'd be moderated, they'd be warned, and no ammount of appealing would reverse that.

I'm not sure. I'm only aware of this happening in a single thread, and that thread was about the supposed presence of CP on 8chan, which is associated with GG. If users had been claiming that GG members were a bunch of pedophiles then you would absolutely have a point. That would be unacceptable, unless there was some heavy evidence to support it. It's more accurate to say that GG defended 8chan despite the supposed prescence of CP, which is, I think, true. Especially given that I'm not aware of any definitive proof of said CP ever existing (though I never researched it heavily). I don't think it was out of line for the mods to allow this, given the topic in question.

Of course, that's one of the more extreme examples, but I also don't think it's okay for GG to claim that their opponents are trying to "censor" them through the modding team, only for them to then demand that the mods remove or reprimand their anti-gamergate critics.

 

[MysticSlayer]

I posted a link to an Escapist article on my facebook wall and got a response along the lines of "eww, the escapist is a bunch of gamergate creeps" and it got me thinking. I've been coming to this site since back when it was an online magazine, I've been a paying subscriber for years, but somehow I'd missed the transformation taking place.

Well, if GG is the big problem here, that was sort of sudden. In fact, the first thread I saw created to try to bring attention to what would later be called Quinnspiracy didn't even get any replies, so I thought it would just be a rant from some crazy new user that would pass and never be brought up again. The fact that his two articles were little more than hilariously paranoid rants on feminism (probably moreso than expressing hatred of Zoe Quinn herself) just made it seem less likely to gain traction.

Obviously, that didn't happen, but it took an entirely new thread placed in a completely different subforum for it to get going, and since The Escapist was one of the only places that facilitated discussion and didn't demonize people sympathizing with Quinnspiracy, later GamerGate, it became one of the popular go-to sites for these people. Heck, an unbelievable number of the early posts were simply people thanking The Escapist for offering a place for them to have the discussion.

Obviously, that will bring a lot of people with those sympathies over to the site. Unfortunately, during those early days, there was an insane amount of tension on the forums, plenty of people got banned, and many just decided to lead because the early tactic of the new members was to flood every subforum with as many threads as they could, and the tolerance for such obnoxiousness would have driven any sane person away (heck, I stayed off the site for over a week while I waited for The Escapist to stop letting that happen). Since then, there's also been a lot of other controversies surrounding the site, and most of the people who leave over these have probably been the anti-GG crowd, which just makes GG's voice on here comparatively louder.

Now, to be fair, The Escapist is nowhere near the same level of an echo chamber that some other sites are, both in support of and in opposition to GG, and thankfully, the remaining supporters of GG (well, most of them anyways) haven't take on the same unbelievably obnoxious tactics of some of the early members, and those that would likely to take them on are generally being limited by the moderators now. And while all of this sort of still leaves The Escapist as being one of the more GG-syampthetic gaming sites, I would hardly call this a echo chamber for GG like some other sites can be.

The Escapist was a place where a comic like WHITE GUY DEFENSE FORCE GO! ( http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/comics/critical-miss/10597-WHITE-GUY-DEFENSE-FORCE-GO ) could be run with a minimum of controversy, where there were people like Movie Bob who could give more analysis to a movie than just "EXPLOSION GOOD".

I think this comes down to a matter of perspective. If you were more progressive at that time, The Escapist was quite the safe-haven, since most of the vocal people here would stand behind your ideas (at least from what I remember, but I think I may have only been lurking at the time). Comparatively, more conservative members probably felt alienated and were often pounced on harshly for their views. Now, things are a little more.

So yeah, there may be more tension at times, but, at least from my perspective, we don't have quite the echo chamber that existed then, and I don't think it would be a good idea to go back to a system where one group feels very welcome while another probably feels like they don't belong. And this is coming from someone who would fit well in a progressive echo chamber, so long as I could get over the fact that it was an echo chamber.

Now I look at the list of popular forum posts and they're all about how men are oppressed, how women are stupid, exactly the sort of stuff that I'd loved this site for avoiding. How did the site's culture change so fast? Is it a coarsening of the gaming community at large, or is it just the new people? Was I wrong to think that this site was ever any different than all the others?

OK, this is quite an exaggeration. Are there members here who have often expressed the idea that men are oppressed (and are doing so unironically)? Yes. Are there members who have called all women stupid? Maybe, but you'd really have to look for them. Generally they just hate feminists, and not all women are feminists, nor are all feminists women, so I'd say the "women are stupid" misrepresents these people.

At the very least, though, it isn't like that is what all of the most popular posts are declaring.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, when I hear "gamers are bullied" I don't immediately think that literally all gamers are bullied, just that it's a common thing. I would still agree with the statement if I thought just a mere 30% of gamers experience bullying. I personally think at least until recently, the number would be closer to 80%.

And...what would you base that percentage on? Let's not even beat around the bush where I ask you who you polled like a smug asshole, because we know that's you projecting anecdotal experience and slapping a percentage on it. I could just as easily say "5%!" and it would be just as unsupportable.

Even so, when you grow up seeing all the adults shouting about games rotting your brains and corrupting the youth, it's not hard to think it's the games themselves that are under attack.

It sounds like you grew up around some unfortunate adults. I heard similar things bandied about on the subject of television when I was younger (the "idiot box" was a common expression) but I never got the sense anyone took it seriously, or that people who watched television were in some special social gulag.

Still, there isn't a stigma associate with depression.

This is a complete sidebar and is totally unrelated to our discussion, but there most definitely is a stigma associated with depression. Indeed, the stigmatization of mental illness is an extremely serious problem. My source on that would be the girlfriend, who A) has a mental illness, B) has a mentally ill father, C) has been a client of mental health services since she was 15, and D) has been employed by the mental health system as an outreach worker for the last seven years. My own experience with clinical depression was pretty disheartening too. People are generally annoyed/confused, and don't understand why you don't just snap out of it and stop having a mope.

This comic was one of the better examinations of the stigmatization of depression I've seen:

Spoiler

No, but anyone can stare at a motion picture. Like, literally everyone does it. The only common factor between film buffs is that they have eyes and ears and maybe understand language. It's not like games where socially awkward people gravitate towards them.

Games as a medium were not specifically designed for "socially awkward people". I think you'll probably find that the higher correlation is between social awkwardness and bullying than gaming and bullying.

Curt Schilling games. Do you think Curt Schilling gets bullied a lot? What about Mr. T? Or Mila Kunis? Lots of bullying there? For playing games? Or are people being bullied for being awkward? I sure got bullied a lot for being awkward. Overwhelmingly the #1 thing I got bullied for. In fact, me being depressed probably made me MORE awkward, so it might've been more accurate to say I was bullied for being awkward then, too.

You'll please note I am not suggesting that socially awkward people are fair game, just that there's a lot of false correlation going on lately where people misconstrue where criticism or cruelty is coming from and for what reason.

 

[Rad Party God]

Just avoid 90% of the threads and you'll be fine.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

OP?

Your obvious bias aside (and it IS obvious, given your descriptions of the threads you've mentioned), the contents of this thread ought to give you a good idea as to the reason for this tonal shift.

Look at all this seemingly unwarranted/totally justified (depending on who you talk to) acrimony in relation to specific/broad (depending on who you talk to) topics, oft related to (depending on who you talk to) gender politics and more overt recent controversies/harassment campaigns (depending on who you talk to.) It's enough to make anybody who frequents the site (more of) a jaded prat.

*tsks*

We're all so bitter and combative, imo. Me? I miss the time, in that ancient mammoth-infused era of 2008-2011, when users were just bitter and arrogant.

Those were the days.

I'm not sure. I'm only aware of this happening in a single thread, and that thread was about the supposed presence of CP on 8chan, which is associated with GG. If users had been claiming that GG members were a bunch of pedophiles then you would absolutely have a point. That would be unacceptable, unless there was some heavy evidence to support it. It's more accurate to say that GG defended 8chan despite the supposed prescence of CP, which is, I think, true. Especially given that I'm not aware of any definitive proof of said CP ever existing (though I never researched it heavily). I don't think it was out of line for the mods to allow this, given the topic in question.

Of course, that's one of the more extreme examples, but I also don't think it's okay for GG to claim that their opponents are trying to "censor" them through the modding team, only for them to then demand that the mods remove or reprimand their anti-gamergate critics.

Well, it's been the same person who's mentioned it in multiple threads. I wouldn't call it a recurrent problem, nor would I say that they're "directly accusing GG supporters of defending or enjoying child pornography," but, yeah, the person in question has made an issue of it, and HAS accused people of defending it, just NOT GG. The people they're speaking with in threads though? ...I can definitely see how people would take it that way, given the content of some posts.

This feels really dumb, by the way, to dance around saying who it is. I mean, we all know who is being discussed, and it seems like we're doing them a disservice by deliberately avoiding their name. I know why it's being done, to avoid moderation, but still, were it me in their position, I'd appreciate more direct means of discussion, or just NOT saying this stuff at all.

Also, this is totally derailing, though I'm not sure what sort of rails a thread like this is supposed to stay on.

And, yeah, some folks need to shut up wit the "THE MODS ARE AGAINST US" nonsense. It's patently false. BUT, I will agree that SOME people SEEMED to be getting more leeway than others.

Some of whom are no longer with us. Gods rest their misanthropic souls.

[small]Edit: I need to stop confusing terms. Like the dumb I am.[/small]

 

[Jadak]

Not sure what times you're remembering. Maybe it's worse now, but I've been here since 2008 and this place has always been rather full of the 'ethically righteous' sorts.

Before 'SJW' became the popularized term it is now, the Escapist was a place packed full of those it describes, and I am not the least bit surprised when chunks of this community jump over whatever fad represents the latest 'moral crisis' they can use to prove how good of a person everyone should think they are.

 

[RedDeadFred]

The Elder Goddess, Shthulhu, has sent her minions to infiltrate the site in the form of the rabid SJWs. Slowly, they have created a culture of passive aggressiveness and back-handed comments. The ultimate goal: create a self-perpetuating gender war that results in the completion of #KillAllMen prophesy. After that task is done, Shethulhu will reveal herself to her followers and allow them to ascend by feasting on the corpses of the men.

 

[Signa]

Well, when I hear "gamers are bullied" I don't immediately think that literally all gamers are bullied, just that it's a common thing. I would still agree with the statement if I thought just a mere 30% of gamers experience bullying. I personally think at least until recently, the number would be closer to 80%.

And...what would you base that percentage on? Let's not even beat around the bush where I ask you who you polled like a smug asshole, because we know that's you projecting anecdotal experience and slapping a percentage on it. I could just as easily say "5%!" and it would be just as unsupportable.

And that is what I appreciate about you, you don't turn these conversations into an inquisition because I made a statement about a feeling. It's certainly not 80% now, even if my perception is inflated. It's too mainstream. Too normal.

Even so, when you grow up seeing all the adults shouting about games rotting your brains and corrupting the youth, it's not hard to think it's the games themselves that are under attack.

It sounds like you grew up around some unfortunate adults. I heard similar things bandied about on the subject of television when I was younger (the "idiot box" was a common expression) but I never got the sense anyone took it seriously, or that people who watched television were in some special social gulag.

Yeah, my parents were never supportive of my hobbies. They allowed me to game, but it was always under restrictions. At one point, if the game depicted skulls or skeletons, and/or "evil things" I wasn't supposed to play it. I wanted Ghosts and Goblins so bad when I was a kid, but nope!

Looking back, a lot of the stigmatization did come from my parents. I was homeschooled until I was in 8th grade, so I didn't have a ton of contact with other kids that weren't also homeschooled with similar moms. I don't think any of my guy friends in school or our homeschool co-op felt that gaming was bad, or bully-able, but I can't think of a single girl between 8th and 12th grade that I dealt with that thought my game playing was cool, interesting, or not a total waste of time. It really wasn't bullying, but it did make me feel like an outsider. I did deal with only one real, actual bully in 8th grade, and it was because I was very awkward coming out of homeschooling. I refused to say any swear words, and everyone knew it.

So I'm not sure where I get the perception that gamers get bullied. I guess it's just been a form of emotional berating by playing something like kids toys. Hell, I still try to talk about actual kid's things like Adventure Time or the recent Scooby Doo being amazing shows, and I just get chuckles and quick topic changes or being cut off. I know I'm not being awkward these days, but people just don't want to hear it. I swear they must be uncomfortable with the idea of a kid's show being good.

Still, there isn't a stigma associate with depression.

This is a complete sidebar and is totally unrelated to our discussion, but there most definitely is a stigma associated with depression. Indeed, the stigmatization of mental illness is an extremely serious problem. My source on that would be the girlfriend, who A) has a mental illness, B) has a mentally ill father, C) has been a client of mental health services since she was 15, and D) has been employed by the mental health system as an outreach worker for the last seven years. My own experience with clinical depression was pretty disheartening too. People are generally annoyed/confused, and don't understand why you don't just snap out of it and stop having a mope.

This comic was one of the better examinations of the stigmatization of depression I've seen:

Spoiler

Mental illness covers a million different things like Schizophrenia (holy shit, I spelled that correctly without spellcheck?!). I know there is a stigma on those, but depression? I've heard statistics that a gross portion of America is on anti-depressants (I'm not going to go find the number right now. I don't think it was less than 20%). I think if there was a stigma against depression, we'd hear enough people backlashing against it.

That comic actually pisses me off. It seems to be a mix of pieces of false equivalency, strawmans, and playing the victim. Maybe I'm not really depressed if that's what it's like for everyone else, but if someone asked if I could just get over it, I'd take it for what it was: a friend hoping I could just cheer up or look at the bright side. It's not appropriate to get mad at someone because they wanted you to be happier. Fuck that shit.

No, but anyone can stare at a motion picture. Like, literally everyone does it. The only common factor between film buffs is that they have eyes and ears and maybe understand language. It's not like games where socially awkward people gravitate towards them.

Games as a medium were not specifically designed for "socially awkward people". I think you'll probably find that the higher correlation is between social awkwardness and bullying than gaming and bullying.

I didn't say it was made for them, just that they gravitate towards them.

Curt Schilling games. Do you think Curt Schilling gets bullied a lot? What about Mr. T? Or Mila Kunis? Lots of bullying there? For playing games? Or are people being bullied for being awkward? I sure got bullied a lot for being awkward. Overwhelmingly the #1 thing I got bullied for. In fact, me being depressed probably made me MORE awkward, so it might've been more accurate to say I was bullied for being awkward then, too.

You'll please note I am not suggesting that socially awkward people are fair game, just that there's a lot of false correlation going on lately where people misconstrue where criticism or cruelty is coming from and for what reason.

I had to look up Curt Schilling, but you just named a ton of celebrities that are pretty cool. I know both Mila and Mr T play WoW, and I don't know if they play anything else. WoW nailed the mass appeal down so well that a lot of not-really-gamers are playing it. Blizzard does that a lot. I'm not sure using those people as examples is fair.

I don't see why awkward people can't be fair game, within reason of course. We learn through our peers, so if you're breaking social conventions left and right for no good reason, a "bully" could set you strait.

Spoiler: now a comic to piss you off?

I'm not sure if this is actually sourced from a comedian's routine or not, but it makes a point I'm trying to get at. I'm also not trying to boast conformity, but some people need to just look around and use their fucking brains. It's what I had to do when I got out of homeschooling, and I feel I'm a better person for it.

 

[Callate]

snip

<chew lip, shrug, non-commital noise>

Bffhrnaginnnan...?

I can't deny the culture has changed.

For a while, at least, I have to confess that I felt the change was for the better. I mean, god love Moviebob, he was really getting to a point where he couldn't discuss an idea without throwing down the idea that those who disagreed with his bigger points were at best some kind of childish shit-flingers and at worst sub-human troglodytes, and I won't lie- I get really tired of that kind of rhetoric, directed at anyone. You don't "start a conversation" by painting the opposite side as worthless scum before they even get to step up to the mic. He was (and is, I suppose) very knowledgeable on certain topics, and it could be fascinating to hear him expound on them. But on others, he was a closed-minded zealot, and his kind of attitude helped make the forums into screeching matches.

I was also getting very tired of lead-by-the nose editorializing and "supporting" opinion pieces by linking to other opinion pieces; I'm not sorry that's cut way back, or that those people are gone. I can't find it in my heart. I'm sorry.

But...

You're also right that things seem to have swung the other way. I don't particularly want to deal with ill-informed hysterics screeching "misogyny" and "homophobia" and "transophobia" every other sentence, but I do want people who can talk honestly and patiently about attendant issues without leaping to judgement. I like being around smart, polite people who can disagree without me without immediately calling me an irredeemable withered soul; I like conversing with people who have thought about these things as hard as I have and deserve to change people's minds, including my own.

I don't think it's healthy to live in an echo chamber, whether the echoed sentiments are liberal or conservative, progressive or traditional. It's a microcosm of how the Internet is changing humanity for the worse.

...And I know I've made a few statements in the past few weeks that until recently would have gotten push-back (possibly over-blown and hostile push-back, but still...) but now they don't... because in context, even my more extreme sentiments are suddenly moderate. I may have my issues with modern interpretations of feminism and definitions of "censorship", but I've never dismissed anyone as a "SJW", and I never intend to.

I think... I hope... That whatever the Escapist is now is a transitional phase. And until the new people start publishing more articles, I'd ask that you hold judgement. I don't think the vast majority of the people here are sympathetic to really pathological homophobia or transphobia, for example; if a contributor starts going that route, I think they'll find they're quite unwelcome. But someone merely holding views you disagree with doesn't inherently mean they are without other virtues, or that they have nothing worthwhile to say. Folks like Moviebob showed as much.

I hope you'll stick around to find out.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

And that is what I appreciate about you, you don't turn these conversations into an inquisition because I made a statement about a feeling.

Really? Not my rapier wit?

Let's try this again. I'll say "What do you appreciate about me" and you say "Your rapier wit". On three.

Yeah, my parents were never supportive of my hobbies.

Well, that could certainly leave an impression. We carry more of our parents and their values and outlooks with us than we sometimes realize. My Dad was very PC/Gaming friendly. He didn't really play himself, but he brought our first computer home when I was like, 6. If he didn't directly encourage the hobby, he was happy enough to get me the latest game for a birthday or Christmas or because I did something that came off like a good kid. My Mom could care less about games and is STILL afraid of computers in general, but she's never really given me grief for my hobby.

I can't think of a single girl between 8th and 12th grade that I dealt with that thought my game playing was cool, interesting, or not a total waste of time.

I knew one. Her name was Kara, and her Dad ran the local computer/software store, so she came by it honestly. I actually still remember having a very temporary crush on her, and (for some reason) thought that asking her if I could borrow her copy of King's Quest represented a good romantic overture. She looked annoyed and confused at my question and that was the end of that. GRADE A ROMEO.

Mental illness covers a million different things like Schizophrenia (holy shit, I spelled that correctly without spellcheck?!). I know there is a stigma on those, but depression?

Clinical depression is a mental illness, boyo.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/expert-answers/clinical-depression/faq-20057770

It's also a pretty big deal. It gets hand-waved a lot because "being depressed" is almost synonymous with "being whiny" in our culture. Or as you've said here, "playing the victim". This can lead to a self-loathing spiral that worsens the depression, potentially leading to serious self-harm or suicide.

I've heard statistics that a gross portion of America is on anti-depressants (I'm not going to go find the number right now.

You may be correct. Over-medication and/or mis-medication is one of the major issues in the mental health system. While anti-depressants can be very valuable in helping people recover, they are not a cure-all, and one size does not fit all. A lot of mental health "professionals" will just throw drugs at a problem (often drugs they are well compensated to promote) without first seeing if talk or cognitive therapy would be a better alternative, if the depression is clinical/chronic or episodic/acute, or even if something as simple as dietary/exercise changes might make a difference. It's also worth noting that a lot of anti-depressants are used to treat diffuse conditions such as generalized anxiety disorder. None of this is an indicator that depression isn't a real/serious problem for a lot of people.

Maybe I'm not really depressed if that's what it's like for everyone else, but if someone asked if I could just get over it, I'd take it for what it was: a friend hoping I could just cheer up or look at the bright side.

Okay, how would you feel if you had cancer, and your friend said your constant moaning about your cancer was really getting them down, and couldn't you just get over the cancer already? Just snap out of the cancer?

There are people who live with depression their ENTIRE LIVES. It isn't a result of life upheaval, it's a malfunction in their brain chemistry. They sink into a numb torpor where nothing matters and just getting out of bed in the morning is difficult. Here, maybe hearing about it from a Gamer would help, I stumbled across this on YouTube a while back:

Spoiler

Alternatively, there is the excellent Allie Brosh:

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2011/10/adventures-in-depression.html

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ca/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

I'm not sure using those people as examples is fair.

You know they didn't limit their gaming to a single title, yes? A lot of people game, awkward, cool, weird, affable, etc, etc. People tend to judge you/interact with you based on your personality, not a list of your hobbies.

I don't see why awkward people can't be fair game, within reason of course.

Hey, don't get me wrong. The comic you posted was amusing, and I'm not above telling "awkward" people that THEY are the reason they're having so many social difficulties. I've dealt with awkward people. I've been an awkward person. I know how annoying it is to deal with. It's awkward, right? I worked with a fellow who was a perfectly nice dude but we all kind of defaulted to being dicks to him because, well, he was super awkward, and it just rubbed everyone the wrong way. I feel bad about it, and yet I imagine were the same kind of individual to drift through again we'd probably all be pricks again.

It's not a question of conformity, I think it's just a question of self awareness. There are a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere who go through life thinking they have a lot of unpleasant social interactions for a variety of reasons...their race, their gender, their sexuality, their appearance, etc, etc. And sometimes that may be true. And sometimes the reason is that they're just impossible to be around. Most people figure it out as they get older, but not everyone.

 

[Westaway]

We have become preoccupied with representation and politics, and it's kind of the game critics and the burgeoning equality movement that have brought us here.

For many people, gaming and politics, gaming and gender, gaming and inclusion, gaming and representation have become inseparable.

This. Liberal Arts students have thrown politics into every discussion of video games. Back in 2008 the only politics related to video games was the issue of banning video games/angry Christian soccer moms.

 

[mad825]

The mods immediately ban or warn people who use ad hominems against posters for stating their opinion.

Erm, no, it goes more like "I don't like your tone of voice". There's no objectivity when humans have authority especially when the rules are obscure as they are.

I.e at what point does insulting becomes too insulting.

 

[Guerilla]

The mods immediately ban or warn people who use ad hominems against posters for stating their opinion.

Erm, no, it goes more like "I don't like your tone of voice". There's no objectivity when humans have authority especially when the rules are obscure as they are.

I.e at what point does insulting becomes too insulting.

I couldn't disagree more. Almost every time someone attacks personally someone else he gets a warning here. This place is like it's being controlled by a fucking A.I. and I'm saying it in a good way. Mods just don't inject their personal agenda here like in shitty forums like neogaf and I fucking love that. They have clear rules on what allowed and what's not and if you follow them you're fine no matter how controversial or hated your opinion is. This is how you run a forum, my only problem here has always been that there are a crapload of subforums so the community is fractured in a dozen forums when there should only be 3-4.

 

[Strazdas]

Oh, this thread is fun. The person is looking for safe space. Safe from what? opinions that disagree? As far as i can see The Escapist is pretty safe. i mean even hinting at an insult will get you warned here, let alone an actual threat.

Then you reference the most controversial comic on this website as "something that went without much controversy". Well ok, maybe you just weren't following up on it, you sound like you don't actively participate in the forums.

Then you praise the "no bad tactics only bad targets" Moviebob as some bastion of knowledge. I dont know about you, but i did not enjoy the "This actress is so hot im going to talk about hot hot she is instead of the movie" reviews.

I guess you will have to point me to posts telling women are stupid because i haven't seen any that i remember. I do remember a single "men have issues too" thread so ill give you that.

This site was and still is different. the difference is that this site allows discussion instead of forcing an agenda on its users. Since last October, a lot of discussion was had regarding journalism and diversity. However since some people like to deflect all criticism as "oppression", this was involved as well.

This site is most definitively pro-GG. Archon quite openly is. The mega-thread was allowed to stay open despite numerous flagrant violations of the CoC that got other threads locked since time immemorial. The new forum has a specifically relaxed CoC for the express purpose of allowing said discussion to continue.

I think you have "Allowing discussion to happen" and "supporting one side of discussion" mixed up.

He's an openly gay character, therefore he's a "Social Justice Warrior Character". Quite literally said right there.

Keep on pretending he's not saying it's a "Social Justice Warrior" move despite doing just that. Like I said, hit me up with a quote there if you want to discuss in more detail.

Even if that was said (which it was not) it would still not mean that acknowledging gays is a SJW move. a character can be considered by a person as openly gay and SJW without meaning that existence of gays is a SJW move. This is because inclusion of gay character in a videogame is NOT an acknowledgement of existence of gays. Its simply a gay character. Acknowledgement of gays would be, say, a developer stating that "Yes gays exist". thats acknowledgement. making a gay character is just that - making a gay character.

If users had been claiming that GG members were a bunch of pedophiles then you would absolutely have a point. That would be unacceptable, unless there was some heavy evidence to support it.

A user was claiming that GG members supported Child Pornography. No evidence was provided (even after asking for evidence). I reported that post and i know at least 3 other people did as well. There was no moderation action. In fact, same user went on claiming the same thing in another thread, although not so directly.

It's more accurate to say that GG defended 8chan despite the supposed prescence of CP, which is, I think, true.

FBI and Canadian Police does not agree, but i think you know better.

 

[tilmoph]

[
This. Liberal Arts students have thrown politics into every discussion of video games. Back in 2008 the only politics related to video games was the issue of banning video games/angry Christian soccer moms.

To be fair, some of the current progressive issues have been raised for a while too. I think I've mentioned this before, but one of the things that made me not care about the whole "Tropes vs. women in vidya" thing was that the first vids were a 3 parter on Damsel in Distress, which I've seen getting smacked from every angle since I was a kid back in the early-mid 90s. Hell, that and games causing violence, and skimpy women being demeaning were the first things I remember games getting shit for. I think what's changed is the tone of the criticism; before, the loudest voices tended to criticize based on narrative weakness, that running these same stories and settings was getting boring, the same character designs were getting dull. The current crop make more identity politics based arguments than improving the artform kind of arguments.

Of course, like the soccer moms before, there is a healthy dose of think of the children moral guardianship involved as well. I think that's just part and parcel of any external force trying to alter a medium to suit their ideas (see comics, music for most well known modern examples)