How do you feel about illegal game downloads?

[Altorin]

also I did legal, the law is not black and white, in fact statutes are written in General English, which makes them all open to interpretation, for instance the courts interpreter statutes all the time. So no, it is not Black and White, there is a Grey area.

Yeah, I'd expect that from a law student (which I noted). I believe you're referring to constitutional interpretation? In civics we learned that ideally civil law is not open to interpretation and that a+b=c. Society depends on constant.

new laws aren't written in law books, at least not for many years after the fact. They're written in the case logs. There isn't very much precedent for these to be considered criminal. I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be, but until more people are convicted of doing it, then whether they are criminal is definitely questionable.

 

[stompy]

That is one of those wonderfully fucking stupid things people say all the time. I dont care one whit that its 65USD. I am in NZ. So here its 100-120.

Right... so if you took your $120 NZ funds over here and got them exchanged for $65 US, you could buy the game for $65. So.... how's that stupid?

Actually, games in Australia and New Zealand are marked up. If I buy, say, Prince of Persia for $US60.00, then it's not the same as buying it in an Australian store. I will have to pay $AU110.00 for an inferior product (the US EB Games is offering the Limited Edition for $US60, while the Australian EB Games is offering the standard edition for $AU110), instead of the limited edition for $AU92.00 ($AU1=$US.64).

And the NZ dollar is weaker than the Aussie one, meaning they pay even more. So, that particular argument is invalid.

 

[RanD00M]

I have a rule for pirating games: if it is more than 5 years old, it's fair game. Unethical? Probably. Illegal? Most certainly. Evil? +10 DSP.

But I don't lose any sleep over it.

I have the same rule as you but i have one other rule.If the games is not obtainable in my general area then it's ok.

 

[Altorin]

well, all this is a moot point, as not being able to afford software is a fairly spurious reason.

 

[GraegoriHauss]

I never torrent anything brand-new. Reason for this is not what you think: I simply don't have the means to burn discs for my Xbox 360 and my computer's operating system is often where the gaming bottleneck squeezes tightest (Windows 2000, whereas all games today are made for XP/Vista). This is a good idea because the companies are probably watching their newest products the closest for pirating because new games are always the most profitable. After a few months to a year, the price in a game drops, and the company's already started milking new cash cows anyway, so it's usually safer thus to torrent.

I also make a point to not torrent too much. Once in awhile seems to keep my profile low, and once in awhile is all I really do anyway; I just don't have a lot of taste for the material that happens to be pirated. I figure if one IS torrenting too much (I.e. 10+ torrents a week), he/she is going to get cracked down upon anyway.

Fact of the matter is, I do it and it doesn't affect how well I sleep at night, so I don't really care. I torrent what I want and then I'm out. As long as I'm not sharing (seeding), I'm not aiding the trend, and I can rest easy with that in mind.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Okay obviously you are slow so I am going to phrase this simply. Also I suggest you try reading both Onmi and stompy's posts.
From every american I have spoken to our weekly earnings are approximatly the same. So if we are earning the same money yet I am paying double... Can you grasp that concept ? Do you understand yet ? If not dont bother replying again and just go spend your american money on a nice big bottle of sleeping pills and vodka.

Don't get condescending to me, jerk. If you want to get nasty, fine. If you want to talk about who's being slow, which one of us got in a twist about what was supposed to be just a ribbing? I even agreed with one of your other posts, so don't be whiny ***** while you're calling me an asshole. How the hell am I supposed to know how much you make a week? Did you say any of that in you post (of which you're somehow accusing me of not seeing info that WASN'T THERE) I can go by what I know of conversion rates, which tell me the numbers work out the same. For fucks sake.... people don't make as much money in TEXAS than they do here in Los Angeles, but that doesn't mean the PRICE OF THE GAME is any different, just what the VALUE OF THE DOLLAR is. Schmuck.

 

[Altorin]

There is only one real game that I've pirated in the past year or so, and that's Baldur's Gate 2.

I also bought it twice new, and bought the expansion

Entitled? probably not. But I'll be fucked if I'm going to go and buy it a third time just so some third party can get a little money.

 

[santaandy]

Okay obviously you are slow so I am going to phrase this simply. Also I suggest you try reading both Onmi and stompy's posts.
From every american I have spoken to our weekly earnings are approximatly the same. So if we are earning the same money yet I am paying double... Can you grasp that concept ? Do you understand yet ? If not dont bother replying again and just go spend your american money on a nice big bottle of sleeping pills and vodka.

Don't get condescending to me, jerk. If you want to get nasty, fine. If you want to talk about who's being slow, which one of us got in a twist about what was supposed to be just a ribbing? I even agreed with one of your other posts, so don't be whiny ***** while you're calling me an asshole. How the hell am I supposed to know how much you make a week? Did you say any of that in you post (of which you're somehow accusing me of not seeing info that WASN'T THERE) I can go by what I know of conversion rates, which tell me the numbers work out the same. For fucks sake.... people don't make as much money in TEXAS than they do here in Los Angeles, but that doesn't mean the PRICE OF THE GAME is any different, just what the VALUE OF THE DOLLAR is. Schmuck.

Despite the personal attack, I think his point was that at least they don't charge people in Los Angeles more in Texas just because they make more money. But for the record, many high-end shopping outlets in America *do* raise the price, sometimes above SRP. I know that the Virgin Megastore in Times Square charges almost 60% more than my local Best Buy. And I went to buy some Star Trek DVD boxsets (yeah, I know, I'm a nerd) off of the official website one time and at the time SRP was $129 at Best Buy but the *official website* wanted $189! So, ironically enough, that shit does happen here in the USA too.

I believe that despite the currency (once you convert it) or location, the price of any single electronic entertainment item should be the same worldwide. If you don't make that much, that sucks, but it's not a complete ripoff that way. I can't blame people for being pissed off on either side of this argument.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Finally, stop arguing from your moral high horse. Have you ever downloaded licensed music illegally? Ever stolen something in real life? Ever lied? Then get off it. Yet again, I repeat that you define morality as an ABSOLUTE (prove it, don't just say it) before you continue this line of argument any further.

No(I collect vinyl only which is sorta hard to pirate, and have about 500 CDs of good stuff you can't get on vinyl. I own each and every track on my iPod). I don't copy DVDs, and no, I don't lie if I can help it(not that I wouldn't lie if a life was at stake). And you're confusing morals with ethics. And I'll ask you two questions and I'm done tonight:

1) Is stealing wrong?
2) Do you consider games to be something you can steal?

I'm betting the answer to both those is yes, correct?

So how can you continue to tell me that piracy is not stealing, and therefore is not wrong? I don't even care IF you tell me that "yeah, I rip off software, too bad". Fine. I'm just tired of seeing you try to explain that what you're doing is not a moral issue, and is not stealing.

 

[Jimmyjames]

I believe that despite the currency (once you convert it) or location, the price of any single electronic entertainment item should be the same worldwide. If you don't make that much, that sucks, but it's not a complete ripoff that way. I can't blame people for being pissed off on either side of this argument.

I'll agree with that.

Hell, on my last trip to London I paid TEN DOLLARS (well, seven pounds) for a freaking Burger King sandwich. Exchange rate.

 

[Axolotl]

I hate Piracy and anybody who illegally downloads a game. I won't argue it's morality because people will justify anything.
However 3 little facts. Epic left the PC market because of Piracy. ID are leaving the PC market because of Piracy. Crytek will soon leave the market because of piracy.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Finally, stop arguing from your moral high horse. Have you ever downloaded licensed music illegally? Ever stolen something in real life? Ever lied? Then get off it. Yet again, I repeat that you define morality as an ABSOLUTE (prove it, don't just say it) before you continue this line of argument any further.

No(I collect vinyl only which is sorta hard to pirate, and have about 500 CDs of good stuff you can't get on vinyl. I own each and every track on my iPod). I don't copy DVDs, and no, I don't lie if I can help it(not that I wouldn't lie if a life was at stake). And you're confusing morals with ethics. And I'll ask you two questions and I'm done tonight:

1) Is stealing wrong?
2) Do you consider games to be something you can steal?

I'm betting the answer to both those is yes, correct?

So how can you continue to tell me that piracy is not stealing, and therefore is not wrong? I don't even care IF you tell me that "yeah, I rip off software, too bad". Fine. I'm just tired of seeing you try to explain that what you're doing is not a moral issue, and is not stealing.

Morals and ethics are the same thing. Prove they're not. And YOU'RE the one who even brought up things like "moral imperative." And if you have 500 CDs, did you really pay money for every single one? How much per? Just curious.

1. Irrelevant. The issue here is piracy, which does not equate to stealing until you PROVE it does. The burden of proof is on the person trying to prove themselves right. I'm not trying to prove myself right, I'm proving you wrong. I only need to show evidence that you don't have enough evidence to make the claims you do. Which I have. Oh, yeah... PROVE THAT MORALITY/ETHICS ARE ABSOLUTES! Without this proof, your argument is just stranded in a lake of fail.

2. In what way? In a physical sense? Yeah, they are things I CAN steal. It is POSSIBLE I could steal them. In an I.T. sense? Yeah, it is POSSIBLE I COULD steal them. In theory.

Bet you wish you'd phrased that last question better, huh?

My opinion of whether on not pirating is wrong is irrelevant. My opinion of whether STEALING is wrong is irrelevant (note how I group these separately, and will continue to do so until you give me some proof they're the same thing). The issue here is YOU saying NOBODY has the right to pirate, EVER, because YOU claim it's wrong. Well, prove it. The ball's in your court. Stop trying to make this about emotion, and actually provide some evidence/supports for the hatred you're bandying about.

Yeah, it's easy to hate an activity that's unpopular, but what about photocopying? What about MP3 downloads? What about borrowing a book from your friend, or reading a book online? Aren't you depriving a company of valuable money? How can you justify this horrible THEFT?!?

 

[santaandy]

Morals and ethics are the same thing. Prove they're not.

A moral is a code of conduct judging right and wrong; Ethics is the philosophy of proper behavior.

Okay, I'm just being an ass, but you did ask.

 

[mooncalf]

Downloading cracked games is bad, making legit customers feel harassed and disempowered is bad, copying games is digital counterfeiting (not theft) and BAD (selling copies is WORSE). Fining little girls and grandmothers (or any private individual) tens of thousands of dollars to set an example is bad.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Morals and ethics are the same thing. Prove they're not.

A moral is a code of conduct judging right and wrong; Ethics is the philosophy of proper behavior.

Okay, I'm just being an ass, but you did ask.

Thanks. I actually was wondering. It's pretty much potato, potahto for how it applies to this argument, however. Either one can take the place of the other. It doesn't matter which word gets used in this context.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I hate Piracy and anybody who illegally downloads a game. I won't argue it's morality because people will justify anything.
However 3 little facts. Epic left the PC market because of Piracy. ID are leaving the PC market because of Piracy. Crytek will soon leave the market because of piracy.

What do you mean! Epic made UT3 didn't they?

Anyway to stop this whole "we pay more than you for games argueament"

1. Yahtzee described the paying more in aussie as the "we have the nicest beaches tax"
2.When US and AUS was nearly equal we were still paying the same amount for games as we do now, so yes us aussies were paying a lot more.
3. USE STEAM in aussie store UT3 is still $100 AUS, on steam about $30 AUS when I bought it.

Alright, we all done arguing now? Let's get back on topic.

 

[MistAlchemist]

its good for persons whos wallets are empty.
But whatever you say, piracy is illegal.
you dont hate the one who implements the rights.
blame the one who came up with the idea of "RIGHTS"
haha peace~!