How do you reason with religious people?

[ultrachicken]

His stupidity has nothing to do with being religious, and this is a thinly veiled, dirty jab at the religious.

 

[DarkPegasus333]

I tend to avoid them. In my experience, reasonable religious people are hard to find (mind you, I live in the South >_>). I've gone through the whole point, counter-point, counter-counter-point thing but in the end all we can do is agree to disagree. Besides, "God works in mysterious ways" and Romans 9:14-15 clearly states:

What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses,

?I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.?

To them, God does what the hell he wants and we shouldn't question it.

 

[DarthFennec]

All of my religious friends hate the WBC more than anything ever, so I think your friend is just a moron. Religious people in general don't act like that I would expect.

 

[Break]

never said you should, and where does it say to kill homosexuals anyway? In fact I don't think homosexuals were even mention of not brief till non-existent.

Since I'm that much of a helpful person, let me find it for you! I've been reading it, lately, so this stuff's all fresh in my mind. It's... Leviticus, 18:22. "You are not to lie with a man as with a woman; it is an abomination." Also repeated a little later, in 20:13 - "If a man lies with a man as with a woman, they have both committed a detestable thing. They must be put to death; their blood is on their own hands", is what it says here. Also, the story of Sodom and Gomorrah starting around Genesis 18:16, and the... Oddly similar story of the Levite in Gibeah, beginning around Judges 19:18 and ultimately leading to most of the tribe of Benjamin getting wiped out, both mention involve large groups of men demanding owners of houses to give up their pretty male visitors to the mob for... Specified reasons.

So yeah. The Old Testament's pretty clear about the homosexuality thing. Depending on the version you're reading, some translations say "sexual relations" outright, rather than the more polite "lie with" or "sleep with". Couldn't comment on the New Testament, I haven't gotten that far, yet. Bible is long. In any case, look up the verses, you probably have a Bible somewhere about the house, or there's always websites where you can just type the numbers in and it'll find them for you. Like this one, [http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+18%3A22&version=NIV] for example. Useful! There's even a button you can press to show the whole chapter, so you can get the real context of what you're reading.

Oh, just so we're clear, I'm an atheist all the way. Reading the Bible's just cemented the fact that I'm never converting to Christianity.

 

[V8 Ninja]

Thankfully I live in the middle of nowhere, meaning that there really isn't any major religious groups/cults that I have to deal with. Yes, there is a Cristian church in my neighborhood, but it's out-of-the-way and the Christians are well-behaved (as in they don't go on protests or that other stuff).

 

[Setsuri21]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

Just to weigh in, I'm not in the least religious any more, I was Catholic schooled, which really helped me see everything wrong with indoctrinating children. Still, to reconcile a God's lack of action in a world full of evil it began to make sense that if there were such a God, and he wanted all of his creations to have free will and develop and grow, he simply mustn't interfere with the good or the evil we perpetrate, until such time as we are judged. Which kinda makes God more of an impartial scientist type, watching over his experiment and taking notes.

I always pictured God as taking different roles throughout time. Humanity is like a human being: when we were first created, we were treated as children. God was supposedly closer to humanity at that time, and he guided us by the hand. As time went on, and humanity got older, he slowly distanced Himslef from us, allowing us to "take care of ourselves". At this point in time, I'd say we're like reckless young adults. We've left the roost, we're on our own, we have to make our own decisions, and have to live with the consequences. Makes me think of the Judgement like an intervention to keep us from blowing all of ourselves up.

 

[sean360h]

you cant the more reason you throw at most of them the louder they get trust me i tryed

 

[Marik2]

I live with a Devout Christian, and I study Archaeology which they don't believe in...

You Can't Reason with them.. We just have a laugh and banter about it.. Just try not to get into a serious argument and you'll be fine

I hate to derail (no, I don't), but...what do these people think you're digging out of the ground then?

Things put there by God...not sure why God'd put them there though.

You must be talking about fundamentalists christians cuz Ive never met a Christian who didnt believe in archeology...

 

[Sprntr_Zomby]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

Just to weigh in, I'm not in the least religious any more, I was Catholic schooled, which really helped me see everything wrong with indoctrinating children. Still, to reconcile a God's lack of action in a world full of evil it began to make sense that if there were such a God, and he wanted all of his creations to have free will and develop and grow, he simply mustn't interfere with the good or the evil we perpetrate, until such time as we are judged. Which kinda makes God more of an impartial scientist type, watching over his experiment and taking notes.

Don't forget to take into account the saying 'One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter'; if there is a god how can he decide upon what is good and what is evil. These concepts are dependant upon the viewpoint one takes upon them. "To someone who is of a lawful-good alignment, even acting true neutral can feel like chaotic-evil".

 

[Sarah Kerrigan]

I'm going to come out now and say I am a proud Wican, and I am treated like shit because of it.

Usually with every other religion, I don't care as long as they don't talk shit about mine, I won't be a ***** towards theirs.

Plain and simple.

 

[Sprntr_Zomby]

The real way to reason with religious people is to do no such thing. Why must we argue over things and not tolerate those things that divide us? Those things that make us unique, that make us human? If they believe something you do not, why can you not let it slide and be the better man by saying 'I have my own beliefs, and while they do not coincide with your own, I don't want to fight over them'. If you must continue upon this diagreement, ask them if you can show them your proof and they can show you their's; you might both learn something that way.

Before anyone says anything I am agnostic. I also have Autism and used to hate religion; if I can overcome my disease and calmly converse with someone about things like this any one can.(and yes this has worked for me)

 

[KaiRai]

I know a Catholic girl (Hot, right?) who wants to be an R.E teacher, goes to church every now and then but not every week etc, just believes in God. I told her I was an atheist and we still talk all the time and she's quite a close friend. Like anything, it depends on the person, although some have been known to try and take moral high ground and preach. That can be a tad frustrating.

 

[Alden Hou]

i dont think that your friend is actually representative of all religious people, he might be using insults and irrational behavior, but thats not the christian in him speaking, thats the douchebag in him speaking.

 

[Mr.Numbers]

I'm going to come out now and say I am a proud Wican, and I am treated like shit because of it.

Usually with every other religion, I don't care as long as they don't talk shit about mine, I won't be a ***** towards theirs.

Plain and simple.

THAT IS SO GOD DAMND COOL!

Couldn't resist ^_^

Well, I am an aethiest, but I have a simple rule for everyone:

(MILDLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL, LOOK AWAY IF YOU ARE GONNA BE OFFENDED)
Treat your religion how you treat your penis, don't whip it out in public and don't shove it down people's throats.

I know that's a tad vulgar, but trust me it's something you are guaranteed to remember

 

[Sarah Kerrigan]

I'm going to come out now and say I am a proud Wican, and I am treated like shit because of it.

Usually with every other religion, I don't care as long as they don't talk shit about mine, I won't be a ***** towards theirs.

Plain and simple.

THAT IS SO GOD DAMND COOL!

Couldn't resist ^_^

Well, I am an aethiest, but I have a simple rule for everyone:

(MILDLY OFFENSIVE MATERIAL, LOOK AWAY IF YOU ARE GONNA BE OFFENDED)
Treat your religion how you treat your penis, don't whip it out in public and don't shove it down people's throats.

I know that's a tad vulgar, but trust me it's something you are guaranteed to remember

*claps* thank you good sir. This is what I was trying to say, but my way was a little bit nicer than yours xDD

And yes, most people find it cool to talk to a real Wican lol.

 

[Blank Kold]

I frown upon pushing of ones beliefs onto others, but a house quote would explain my attitude on this.

?Rational arguments don?t usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people.?

 

[deadxero]

So let me get this right...you want to reason with someone who insists on believing in something that cannot be proven. Not only do they believe in it, but many dedicate their lives to it.

It's really simple. You cannot reason with someone who refuses think in a reasonable/rational manner. Don't argue relegion with people, you'll both be happier in the end.

 

[Samus Aaron]

The argument SHOULD be:

The bible says "Don't judge people. Leave it to God."
The WBC judges people and doesn't leave it to God.
Therefore, the WBC is wrong.

That makes sense until you realize that the WBC is not the only group that judges people. Almost every single person in the world judges people (with the exception of very few, if at all) including you and me. Does that mean that we are all "wrong"?

If I said "yes", how would you respond?

I would say that we are all entitled to our ideas of what is "wrong" and "right." By the logic of the bible, your saying "yes" would be correct. But I would also question the legitimacy and accuracy of a bible that damns almost all human beings for a natural, god-given human instinct (that is, prejudice).

I doesn't damn people for prejudice. Where'd you get that?

No, I never said that you said that. I'm saying that the bible damns people for prejudice. Or maybe it punishes people in a lesser way; I don't know exactly how it works.

 

[RaffB]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Put simply, your friend sounds like an idiot.

Never argue with idiots, they just bring you down to there level and then beat you with experience.

 

[spartan231490]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

You really can't. Hardcore religious fanatics, like this guy seems to be, base their beliefs on faith, more so than logic. You could point out some way that WBC violated his religion, and then he might become more open-minded.